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#1
I bought my Washburn X16 G13 a couple of years JUST because of the appearance. I love the graphics and I want to keep it that way, so I'm going through a process of modifying to make it the ultimate guitar. You guys must think I'm an idiot, and yeah I might just be one

(If you wanna get to the damn question, skip this part and go down a bit)

But anyway, I have changed pickups, and now it's about time I get a tremolo bar. I have been able to make it without it, but I've started learning songs by Dimebag etc. that uses a tremolo bar and the awesome harmonics you can make with them. So I'm doing my "practical occupational experience" in a music store and I asked their guitar builder if it's possible. And he answered that it is, and it's difficult but fortunately he knew a company that does that kind of stuff. So what I wanna do is to make a hole in the guitar so a Floyd Rose can fit in.

Here's my guitar:


With the current pickups (sorry if it's a bit large)

This is just taken from a random source at Google.

So I practically want the same kind of trem bar that Dimebag used, or even better if today has more to offer.

EDIT: Suggestions on other stuff I could do to make the guitar even better are welcome!

Thanks guys
Last edited by VikingMetalhead at Oct 21, 2008,
#2
You could probably hire a shop to install a floyd on it.
It may get a bit pricey though.
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#3
Trem bar? Do you mean the whole trem? the trem bar is just the bar used to lower or raise the pitch of the strings. If your meaning bridge then get the shop to fit a floyd rose thats what dime used. Nice guitar by the way, it will look good with a floyd rose if done right
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Last edited by mightmuffin at Oct 21, 2008,
#6
You have three options:

Buy a Floyd for $200, pay a shop around 100-150 to do it or do it yourself. Either way, a screw up kills your guitar

Install a Bigsby-style trem. It will work odd, won't do real deep dive bombs, but is a trem.

Buy a new guitar. Probably cheaper than putting a Floyd on your current one if you look and get a decent used Jackson or MAYBE a well loved MIJ Ibby.
#7
Quote by sesstreets
You're an idiot.


, yeah I know...

Quote by darkarbiter7
You could probably hire a shop to install a floyd on it.
It may get a bit pricey though.


Well actually, the company that could do it will, added with the tremolo bridge (yep, that's what I meant, mightmuffin) not require all that much money. Altogether it will come down to about the value of an average-priced new guitar. Almost what this one cost in the beginning.


So any more suggestions on which Floyd I should get?
#8
ummm...

do you know anything about Floyd Rose bridges? Do you know how to change the strings? Do you know how to change tunings?

i'm just saying I think your wanting to buy a bridge for the wrong reasons. There are other bridges out there will allow you to do dive bombs and pull ups if that is what you are wanting to do. Or do you wanna just be like Dime (was)?

I have a vintage style non-locking bridge and it does those things without the headaches (imo) of a Floyd type. Also look at Wilkinson.

To CJ's point, it doesn't make sense to pump all of this money into your guitar unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure you have to have a Floyd Rose.
#9
go to GBnC and they'll tell you that unless youre a pro guitar builder, you'll destroy your instrument if you try and route it for a floyd
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#10
Do not destroy your guitar, it's not worth the effort, expense or the loss of resale value.

It'd be cheaper and easier to buy a new guitar with a Floyd.

You're looking at the Swedish equivalent of about £150 for a worthwhile bridge, and probably the same again to get it routed properly and fitted. Your also going to ruin the existing finish and there's a risk of it going completely tits up - you'd be absolutely insane to do it.
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#13
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you want a trem you should just get a Strat style trem instead of a floating one. Much simpler. It won't do super crazy dive bombs or be able to go upwards (actually they will go upwards, just not very far), but it should be great for obnoxious vibrato. Dive bombs definitely won't be out of the picture either, you just won't be able to go balls out and dive down from like an E to an A.
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Last edited by Sonicxlover at Oct 21, 2008,
#15
Quote by Sonicxlover
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you want a trem you should just get a Strat style trem instead of a floating one. Much simpler. It won't do super crazy dive bombs or be able to go upwards (actually they will go upwards, just not very far), but it should be great for obnoxious vibrato. Dive bombs definitely won't be out of the picture either, you just won't be able to go balls out and dive down from like an E to an A.

That's what I was saying. I have a floating vintage bridge. Simple, stays in tune, durable, pitch up or down, blah ba blah and I can change tunings on the fly with no extra fuss.

Also - it is my understanding that the guitar he posted is not his.

OK, some people become very attached to their guitars and would rather spend 3, 4, 5 hundered dollars or more to make it the way they want it. If that's you, and you REALLY want a FR bridge, knock yourself out.

Personally I wouldn't go thru the trouble to take that kind of risk resulting in a bridge that is burdonsome imo. <FR lovers flame shield>

You can get a Standard Strat for $375 US.
#16
Wouldnt ya need locking tuners with that? Which would require modification to the neck, which would be even more money on top of the however many hundred required for just the floyd and routing.

Get a bigsby, much classier
#17
Quote by beckyjc
Wouldnt ya need locking tuners with that? Which would require modification to the neck, which would be even more money on top of the however many hundred required for just the floyd and routing.

Get a bigsby, much classier


locking tuners =/= locking nut.

locking tuners just clamp the string down so you dont have to wrap it round the peg for it to stay on, look rly neat

i dont think they lock the length of the string
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#18
Sorry i did actually mean a locking nut, ive had a long day.

Im pretty sure they take a bit of routing to fit in though. Plus arent they drilled in through the neck? Ive only ever played an RG with a floyd in it once (replacing an edge III), and from what i remember there was some screws at the back of the neck, i know its not a drop in replacement though.

But youd pretty much have to get a pro to do it otherwise you could screw up your entire neck and scale length unless ya had some experiance, which no offence to ts, but it doesnt sound like he does
#19
Yup, locking nuts require routing.

And there may be an issue with string height with the change of TOM to Floyd.

And ruining the finish.

Just don't. If you need a Floyd guitar, get a Floyd guitar, don't ruin an already good one.
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#20
1. Damn so I'll need to adjust the whole damn guitar?

2. And yeah, I mainly want one so that I can learn Dimebag-squeals.

3. And also, I'll NOT do it myself. I know that I would totally ruin the guitar if I did, but I know of a company with professional guitar-builders that could do it.

4. One more: what really causes the need to have locking nuts? Why would I need to adjust the neck and stuff?

5. And no, I kinda know nothing at all about them. That's why I wanna learn...


EDIT: Thanks sethp for the cool image!
#21
Quote by VikingMetalhead
1. Damn so I'll need to adjust the whole damn guitar?

2. And yeah, I mainly want one so that I can learn Dimebag-squeals.

3. And also, I'll NOT do it myself. I know that I would totally ruin the guitar if I did, but I know of a company with professional guitar-builders that could do it.

4. One more: what really causes the need to have locking nuts? Why would I need to adjust the neck and stuff?

5. And no, I kinda know nothing at all about them. That's why I wanna learn...


EDIT: Thanks sethp for the cool image!

without a locking nut you'd go completely out of tune very quickly if you were using heavy vibrato or a bunch of squeals/dives. to install a locking nut you'd have to do a fair bit of modification to the nut area of the guitar.
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#22
Quote by arizonagt
without a locking nut you'd go completely out of tune very quickly if you were using heavy vibrato or a bunch of squeals/dives. to install a locking nut you'd have to do a fair bit of modification to the nut area of the guitar.

Ok, so I won't have to adjust the whole neck then? Does modification mean like raising or lowering the nut slightly?
#23
oops, completely forgot about the locking nut. that will take even more routing. basically the locking nut needs a platform to sit on. look at any floyd rose nut, they're much larger than a regular nut.

in the end, you'd probably pay just as much for the install as you would for a guitar with a floyd. and you wont know until its all done whether it works properly or not. too many things can go wrong
#24
Quote by sethp
oops, completely forgot about the locking nut. that will take even more routing. basically the locking nut needs a platform to sit on. look at any floyd rose nut, they're much larger than a regular nut.

in the end, you'd probably pay just as much for the install as you would for a guitar with a floyd. and you wont know until its all done whether it works properly or not. too many things can go wrong

Ok, seem like it's much harder than I thought... So I will need to change the current nut with a Floyd Rose-nut, and still not be sure if the new nut is correct in line with the Floyd Rose-bridge, since the neck of every guitar aren't exactly the same huh?
If I got that right now, check this out:

"Nut — A string clamp, installed as the "zero fret" at the neck. It has screws and braces called "locks" to clamp on the strings that run through it. An Allen wrench is required to loosen or tighten the nut." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Rose

That should mean that the locking nuts are already there from the beginning, and I will need to change the whole nut, right? Then why are you talking about that the locking nut would make it more difficult?

Please tell me if I got that right... then I'll stop asking questions and just let the guys at the company take a look at it and see what they think.

Thanks everyone!
#25
It's not worth doing, especially with a graphic finish - to do it properly you'd ideally sand off the finish before routing and repaint the guitar and that's obviously not an option here.
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#26
Quote by steven seagull
It's not worth doing, especially with a graphic finish - to do it properly you'd ideally sand off the finish before routing and repaint the guitar and that's obviously not an option here.

I called them today and they said they had done that stuff before. And no, they said you don't have to take away the finish...

I'll visit them this weekend and let them take a closer look, I'll post their thoughts here then.
#28
Quote by VikingMetalhead
I called them today and they said they had done that stuff before. And no, they said you don't have to take away the finish...

I'll visit them this weekend and let them take a closer look, I'll post their thoughts here then.


So in summary,

1) You asked if it was a good idea
2) Everyone said no
3) You're going to do it anyway

Why'd you make this thread?
#29
this really isn't a good idea
you realise the amount of routing needed?
need to drill out a huge chunk of the back of the guitar, a big chunk out the front just to get the bridge in, then the locking nut would be hard to put on as it is very different surface, may need a new neck, this would cost so much money its not worth it buy a guitar equipped with a floyd rose already! will work much better more likely
also your wanting it purely to make dimebag squeals there are loads of disadvantages to a fr tooo
its a lot harder to setup
cant downtune further than drop D without another setup or a tremol no
you'll loose sustain, your tone will change
if you snap a string the rest will go out

just dont do it to your poor guitar theres no going back once you do
#30
Quote by VikingMetalhead
I called them today and they said they had done that stuff before. And no, they said you don't have to take away the finish...

I'll visit them this weekend and let them take a closer look, I'll post their thoughts here then.

Of course you don't *have* to - doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Seriously, don't **** up your guitar...just buy another one.
Actually called Mark!

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#31
Quote by symanoy
this really isn't a good idea
you realise the amount of routing needed?
need to drill out a huge chunk of the back of the guitar, a big chunk out the front just to get the bridge in, then the locking nut would be hard to put on as it is very different surface, may need a new neck, this would cost so much money its not worth it buy a guitar equipped with a floyd rose already! will work much better more likely
also your wanting it purely to make dimebag squeals there are loads of disadvantages to a fr tooo
its a lot harder to setup
cant downtune further than drop D without another setup or a tremol no
you'll loose sustain, your tone will change
if you snap a string the rest will go out

just dont do it to your poor guitar theres no going back once you do


+1

Also you dont know if your guitar is thick enough to support it.
You dont know how the graphic will accept the cut or the abuse of the router.
Once you get a Floyd odds are your gonna hate it with in a month and want another guitar that isnt a floyd.
Even properly built guitars cant handle Dime Squeels half the time. Tuning falling out every time you do it, neck popping when you release tension.

And all those risks just to do Dime squeels god I will never understand Dime Sheep
#32
isnt really enough room for the locking nut, which is needed. lots of routing for the bridge, need to make sure the guitar is even thick enough. neck angle probably wrong since its got a TOM bridge on it at the moment which has a slight neck angle usually, and FRs from my memory have a 0 degree neck angle.

of course any shop will tell you they CAN do it, but waay too many things can go wrong.

i know every other post in the thread are saying the same thing, but its too big a risk and too expensive. buy another guitar for the same price, then you have 2 working guitars instead of running the chance of having none.
#33
Don't do it. I like what chris said, have one possibly ruined guitar or two working ones.
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#34
Of course they want a sale, but at the same time I don't think they want unhappy customers... well alright, just because I said I'll let them see it, doesn't mean I haven't listened to your opinions even if it might sound like that. In the beginning I was like extremely positive, now I'm less than neutral. So yeah, your opinions did make me doubt alot. It's just that professional guitar builders's opinions, after they have seen it in real life, gotta have a value as well even if they wanna sell.
#35
I went to the company yesterday, and they said that even though the bridge won't be too hard, the nut will be, since the head of my axe goes down a bit. It's like a small slope from the fretboard/neck to the head, and you might need to put a piece of wood under the new nut, and when I heard that I immediately canceled all plans of doing this.

So I've decided I'm gonna buy a new guitar, so I'll have one with and one without Floyd Rose. And I have started a thread to get some suggestions, but I never got any answers. but I have searched alot on my own, and I'm really thinking about this one: Jackson WRMG

It has the woods that you guys recommend on old "which wood"-threads, except the fretboard, which is a rosewood and UGers recommended others as well regarding that one. 24 frets, 25,5" fretboard for maximum sustain (one again, according to UGers) and EMG 81/85 pickups.
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So everything's cool except the Floyd Rose, because it's a licensed one which is not as good in UGers opinions. And yeah, it makes sense, so I just wanna ask you guys one last question: Would an original or other Floyd Rose fit in the hole of the WRMG?

And if so, which Floyd Rose would be the best for me?


(if you'd recommend any other guitar in the same price class, post in my other thread please)

Thanks
#36
Have you thought about buying a new guitar with the parts you want, then have an artist sand it down to the bare wood and refinish it with the graphics that you want?

That to me sounds like a much easier way to do what you are trying to do based on the advice you're being given here.
#37
Quote by VikingMetalhead
-
So everything's cool except the Floyd Rose, because it's a licensed one which is not as good in UGers opinions. And yeah, it makes sense, so I just wanna ask you guys one last question: Would an original or other Floyd Rose fit in the hole of the WRMG?

And if so, which Floyd Rose would be the best for me?


(if you'd recommend any other guitar in the same price class, post in my other thread please)

Thanks


from what i understand, Jackson's Floyd bridges are among the better of the stock licenced Floyds. so don't worry about replacing it unless you have to
#38
Quote by Nalakram
Have you thought about buying a new guitar with the parts you want, then have an artist sand it down to the bare wood and refinish it with the graphics that you want?

That to me sounds like a much easier way to do what you are trying to do based on the advice you're being given here.

No... I'll keep this guitar as it is and then buy a new one, and keep the original graphics. But later on I might want custom graphics on the new one as well, but that would have to be something new instead of copying. I mean, a skull wouldn't look very nice on a weird shaped guitar like this one, would it?

Alright sethp, thanks.
#40
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
So you're going to take our advice and get a second guitar only to end up changing the bridge in the new guitar?


Haha no, just if the bridge on the WRMG isn't good enough in a few years, I will probably have more experience and be more pedantic you know?
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