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#1
Okay having problems finding what key this is in: chords are Am, Gmaj, Fmaj, Emaj, then back to Am. Any ideas?
#2
A minor.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#4
E major is often used in the key of A minor as it gives stronger resolution back to the Am chord
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
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#7
Quote by SZ320man
but I thought A minor has Eminor, not E major? am I on crack?


In Western tonal harmony, dominant chords are major. You can use an E minor if you want, but it's not going to resolve in any meaningful way, and barely functions as a dominant.

C, straight up.


There is nothing to suggest C major.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
Quote by Ænimus Prime
E major is often used in the key of A minor as it gives stronger resolution back to the Am chord

To further explain this.

V of vi

-or-

Am raised by an interval of a 5th staying in the key of Am is E major.
#10
Quote by Archeo Avis
In Western tonal harmony, dominant chords are major. You can use an E minor if you want, but it's not going to resolve in any meaningful way, and barely functions as a dominant.


There is nothing to suggest C major.


C major is the relative major to A minor, so technically it has the same notes as C, but Am is correct.
Last edited by Souls United at Oct 22, 2008,
#11
Quote by Souls United
C major is the relative major to A minor, so technically it is also in the key of C, but Am is more correct.


It is not in the key of C. "Key signature" is not the same thing as "key". Key signatures are just notational devices.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
It is not in the key of C. "Key signature" is not the same thing as "key". Key signatures are just notational devices.


Id be more inclined to call it C just because of my classical upbringing. Either or really.

Keep in mind that youd practically never see it written as Am in sheet music.
#13
Quote by rollininrhythm
Id be more inclined to call it C just because of my classical upbringing. Either or really.

Keep in mind that youd practically never see it written as Am in sheet music.


You seem to be confusing "key" with "key signature".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
It is not in the key of C. "Key signature" is not the same thing as "key". Key signatures are just notational devices.
But you could solo in the key of C over it and it would sound fine... Thats kinda what I was getting at lol, just worded it badly
#15
Quote by Archeo Avis
You seem to be confusing "key" with "key signature".


No, I understand the difference is the note of resolve. But its all the same notes, and the same way you dont usually call something D dorian, I probably wouldnt call this Am.

Id call them both C
#16
Quote by rollininrhythm
But its all the same notes
Id call them both C


Which would be incredibly misleading and wouldn't accurately describe the music at all.

But you could solo in the key of C over it and it would sound fine... Thats kinda what I was getting at lol, just worded it badly


But you couldn't solo over it in C, because it resolves to A. You could solo over it with the notes that make up C major, but actually describing it as "soloing in C" is vastly over complicating it.

But its all the same notes, and the same way you dont usually call something D dorian


You would if it were written in D dorian.

No, I understand the difference is the note of resolve.


The difference is that a key signature is a notational device. It doesn't exist outside of standard notation, it exists only to make reading standard notation easier, and isn't required to correspond to the actual key of the music. I have plenty of music notated in C major despite being is a variety of other keys. That doesn't mean they're in C major.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Oct 22, 2008,
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
Which would be incredibly misleading and wouldn't accurately describe the music at all.


But you couldn't solo over it in C, because it resolves to A. You could solo over it with the notes that make up C major, but actually describing it as "soloing in C" is vastly over complicating it.


You would if it were written in D dorian.


The difference is that a key signature is a notational device. It doesn't exist outside of standard notation, it exists only to make reading standard notation easier, and isn't required to correspond to the actual key of the music. I have plenty of music notated in C major despite being is a variety of other keys. That doesn't mean they're in C major.


Call it as you like, Ill call it C maj, you can call it Am. You can argue apples and oranges, but in the classical world, youll hear it called C before Am
#19
Quote by rollininrhythm
Call it as you like, Ill call it C maj, you can call it Am. You can argue apples and oranges, but in the classical world, youll hear it called C before Am


It doesn't really matter whether it's " the classical world" or not, it's in A minor, not C major. if anything, a background in classical music would make this even more clear.
shred is gaudy music
#20
Call it as you like, Ill call it C maj


And prepared to be corrected if you do it in front of someone who clearly isn't familiar with your own individual conventions. C major is not A minor, not even in the classical world (I don't know where you got that idea). Even if it was, insisting that it is C major to someone uneducated in theory is incredibly misleading and irresponsible.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
Sigh

What evs. All I know is that this thread did not need to be 2 pages. And if your trying to find out where things fit harmonically, its easier to think C then Am. So Im still going with C
#23
Quote by rollininrhythm
Sigh

What evs. All I know is that this thread did not need to be 2 pages. And if your trying to find out where things fit harmonically, its easier to think C then Am


For the last time, it is not in C major. There is absolutely no reason to call it C major, and calling it C major simplifies absolutely nothing. If you are trying to "figure out where things fit harmonically", whatever you mean by that, it would be far easier to think of things as they relate to the tonal center. You don't know what you're talking about, and you need to stop trying to mislead people who don't know any better.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#24
This is not in C major at all, and you'd be a fool to call it such. Sorry.

Quote by rollininrhythm
Sigh

What evs. All I know is that this thread did not need to be 2 pages. And if your trying to find out where things fit harmonically, its easier to think C then Am. So Im still going with C


Where it fits harmonically? Are you kidding? The way it fits harmonically is what MAKES it Am. The Emaj is what pulls it toward Am.
Quote by dudetheman
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Last edited by DaddyTwoFoot at Oct 22, 2008,
#25
Quote by rollininrhythm
Sigh

What evs. All I know is that this thread did not need to be 2 pages.



I agree, the question was answered in the second post.

Quote by rollininrhythm

And if your trying to find out where things fit harmonically, its easier to think C then Am. So Im still going with C



context is very important. there a couple of things here that point to A minor and also make it clear that it's not C major.

- the tonal center is A minor
- E major = V chord in A minor ( a Major V is typical in a minor key, especially in classical music)

There really is nothing C major about this chord progression.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Oct 22, 2008,
#26
If one good thing came out of this thread, it's that I've discovered that I really like the sound of a III chord in a major key (E major in C major). I find it leads very nicely into the dominant.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#27
Quote by rollininrhythm
Sigh

What evs. All I know is that this thread did not need to be 2 pages. And if your trying to find out where things fit harmonically, its easier to think C then Am. So Im still going with C

I honestly don't know who you've talked to who always refers to the relative major key when talking about the minor key. What would you call the chord progression then? According to you it's not i VI IV V i. Calling it a vi IV II III vi progression is WRONG.
#28
Quote by GuitarMunky


E major = V chord in A minor ( a Major V is typical in a minor key, especially in classical music)


For future reference with diatonic chords for rollinrhythm (if he's still reading this)

Major keys: I, ii, iii, IV, V vi, vii°
Minor keys: i, ii°, III, iv, V, VI, VII
#29
Quote by Souls United
For future reference with diatonic chords for rollinrhythm (if he's still reading this)

Major keys: I, ii, iii, IV, V vi, viiø
Natural Minor keys: i, iiø, III, iv, v, VI, VII

Fixed.
Last edited by Vittu0666 at Oct 22, 2008,
#30
Quote by Vittu0666
Fixed.


Again, dominant chords are major. "Minor" implies the use of a V chord. Calling it "harmonic minor" is completely unnecessary because the term simply describes a convention regarding minor harmony. There is no such thing as a "natural minor key" or a "harmonic minor key.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#31
Quote by Vittu0666
Fixed.

My bad, I was referring to triads... oops lol

thinking about piano since its my main instrument
Last edited by Souls United at Oct 22, 2008,
#32
Quote by Archeo Avis
Again, dominant chords are major. "Minor" implies the use of a V chord. Calling it "harmonic minor" is completely unnecessary because the term simply describes a convention regarding minor harmony. There is no such thing as a "natural minor key" or a "harmonic minor key.

I forgot to change the V in the minor. Lol. This is very true, but for beginners, that is how it is. Every Theory book I've ever looked at has always shown the diatonic chords for each "type" of minor key.
#33
Yea. Im still reading this. And Ill still call it C, because for me, its easier to see when its in C. And if you ask me, Id still say it can go either way.
#34
Quote by rollininrhythm
Yea. Im still reading this. And Ill still call it C, because for me, its easier to see when its in C. And if you ask me, Id still say it can go either way.


It can't go either way. The progression is firmly and unambiguously in A minor. There is absolutely no reason to call it C major. None. You were wrong, and you're now trying to save face. Stop it.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#35
Quote by Archeo Avis
It can't go either way. The progression is firmly and unambiguously in A minor. There is absolutely no reason to call it C major. None. You were wrong, and you're now trying to save face. Stop it.


Look at the roman numerals for diatonic chords above. You will see why it is in A minor and not C major...

Get some staff paper and write it out if you want to see it visually, it will help your understanding better probably.
Last edited by Souls United at Oct 22, 2008,
#36
Quote by Souls United
Look at the roman numerals for diatonic chords above. You will see why it is in A minor and not C major...

Get some staff paper and write it out if you want to see it visually, it will help your understanding better probably.


Dont make the mistake of thinking that Im a noob to all this. The work I do on a daily basis requires me to read music and improvise over it in more or less any key you can think of. Myself, and many others I know will call it C far before we call it Am.

By not excepting that different people in different areas call things slightly differently, you, in fact, are the ignorant foolish one.
#37
Myself, and many others I know will call it C far before we call it Am.


Who does?

Words have definitions for a reason. C major is not the same as A minor, and they are not even remotely similar. The terms are not interchangeable, and you are wrong in describing it as a C major progression. Calling it C major is not a "classical convention", and you need to suck it up and admit that you were wrong.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#38
It is not in C major. Seriously. There is no indication of that. You, and all the "other people you know," are wrong. Period.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#39
Quote by rollininrhythm
Dont make the mistake of thinking that Im a noob to all this. The work I do on a daily basis requires me to read music and improvise over it in more or less any key you can think of. Myself, and many others I know will call it C far before we call it Am.

By not excepting that different people in different areas call things slightly differently, you, in fact, are the ignorant foolish one.

Everyone from every area who I've talked to would without a doubt call the progression in Am, and NOT C Major.
#40
Kay guys, done with this thread. Ive made my case, and if everyone in here wasnt so worried about always being right, they could see why its okay to call it either C or Am
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