#1
Alright, I'm going to admit that I'm not that well informed on the NCLB law. But here is what I think I understand so far:
It makes the states take a standardized test and if your school doesn't do well, then the government pulls their federal funding. It also causes teachers to focus more on the test than the curriculum that is needed. So I ask of you Pit, please help me if I'm missing some things on what this law is about and who it affects. And what do you think about it or what should be done about it?
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#2
the NCLB law is utter stupidity if a schools test scores drop you dont pull their funding you simply try harder to get the test scores up, using this act it basically damns any schools whose test scores aren't high enough to meet "Federal Requirements."
#3
It does focus more on the tests rather than an education. Our curriculum has been modified to fit only the material given on the test, like in physics. We don't learn about like, liquid, or something, because it's not covered on our end of year test. It affects the people who actually want to learn about a certain subject.
#4
I dont understand why you cut funding to schools that do badly, clearly that shows the school needs help.
#5
Yeah and did you know if your highschool is a federally funded school then if the state/national government requests recruitment information (i.e. phone numbers, addresses, e-mails etc., etc..) the school is obligated to give them the information without notifying the student or family.

Sec 9528 of NCLB
#6
Quote by Ghanja_Fog
the NCLB law is utter stupidity if a schools test scores drop you dont pull their funding you simply try harder to get the test scores up, using this act it basically damns any schools whose test scores aren't high enough to meet "Federal Requirements."

Not really. It's a toothless law. The Feds don't spend money on education. Education is a local issue in the US. NCLB was pushed through by Bush so he could say "look what I did" Congress approved because they knew it wouldn't cost anything and they could go back home and say "look what I did". It was a bullshit waste of time that does little or nothing for the American education system.
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#7
NCLB is absolute shit.
-The rate at which the tests must be produced makes any helpful data void as there is very little time for assessment. On average, there are only about two people every year who obtain a degree as a psychometrician (necessary for assessing and producing these standardized tests).
-The tests often become the backbone of the curriculum, heavily restricting what teachers can teach. Some teachers call for memorization of facts rather than analyzing information.
The fact that the tests are multiple choice make them very poor determinants of actual knowledge. Someone could know very little about a topic and just be a good testtaker to be able to score well, or vice versa.
-Schools that need better teachers to improve test scores often have their best teachers leaving for better schools and more freedom of curriculum.
-It's incredibly expensive to administer these tests yearly, money which could be used for better tools to educate

There are better forms of accountability. Simplicity is not the answer.
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#8
Quote by kaosfire
I dont understand why you cut funding to schools that do badly, clearly that shows the school needs help.


My sentiments exact.

Surely cutting the funds of schools that are "failing" is only hindering people's education.
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#9
Quote by vintage x metal
NCLB is absolute shit.
-The rate at which the tests must be produced makes any helpful data void as there is very little time for assessment. On average, there are only about two people every year who obtain a degree as a psychometrician (necessary for assessing and producing these standardized tests).
-The tests often become the backbone of the curriculum, heavily restricting what teachers can teach. Some teachers call for memorization of facts rather than analyzing information.
The fact that the tests are multiple choice make them very poor determinants of actual knowledge. Someone could know very little about a topic and just be a good testtaker to be able to score well, or vice versa.
-Schools that need better teachers to improve test scores often have their best teachers leaving for better schools and more freedom of curriculum.
-It's incredibly expensive to administer these tests yearly, money which could be used for better tools to educate

There are better forms of accountability. Simplicity is not the answer.


This basically.

I think it's rediculous that the kids who actually have a future are ****ed over by the idiots who dont give a flying ****.

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#10
Quote by vintage x metal
NCLB is absolute shit.
-The rate at which the tests must be produced makes any helpful data void as there is very little time for assessment. On average, there are only about two people every year who obtain a degree as a psychometrician (necessary for assessing and producing these standardized tests).
-The tests often become the backbone of the curriculum, heavily restricting what teachers can teach. Some teachers call for memorization of facts rather than analyzing information.
The fact that the tests are multiple choice make them very poor determinants of actual knowledge. Someone could know very little about a topic and just be a good testtaker to be able to score well, or vice versa.
-Schools that need better teachers to improve test scores often have their best teachers leaving for better schools and more freedom of curriculum.
-It's incredibly expensive to administer these tests yearly, money which could be used for better tools to educate

There are better forms of accountability. Simplicity is not the answer.

Standardization of education in a nation as diverse as ours is stupid any ways.
You recently participated in a course on agriculture. Agricultural education is a mainstay in many parts of our country. We feed the world. I don't think kids in NY City
need to learn husbandry anymore than kids in Iowa need to learn the ins and out of Wall Street. Ya very generalized I know but I think you get my drift. The Federal government has no business in education. 99% of all school funding in this country is raised locally on real estate taxes. Until the feds pony up with some cash they can just stfu.
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#11
Quote by Jackal58
Standardization of education in a nation as diverse as ours is stupid any ways.
You recently participated in a course on agriculture. Agricultural education is a mainstay in many parts of our country. We feed the world. I don't think kids in NY City
need to learn husbandry anymore than kids in Iowa need to learn the ins and out of Wall Street. Ya very generalized I know but I think you get my drift. The Federal government has no business in education. 99% of all school funding in this country is raised locally on real estate taxes. Until the feds pony up with some cash they can just stfu.

It's quite obvious that local governments will know how to better use the money in education than the federal government anyway. Different places have different needs. No one NEEDS multiple choice testing. If accountability is that big of an issue they could create other forms of assessment.
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#12
your learning more or less becomes centered around the standardized tests. my high school had a problem because we were above average but had to take enough time on the material covered in the test to meet standards. it seems now that there's less being learned because if one person has a problem with the material, everyone else has to wait to progress until that one student understands.

on a side note, it sucks that Michigan always used the MEAP (Michigan's own standardized test) while several states simply used the SAT or ACT. the MEAP had a different scoring system for what was average, so though Michigan as a whole was above the national average, it didn't appear so when comparing MEAP and ACT scores. now that the MEAP has almost no value, Michigan has declined to becoming simply average.
#13
It is retarded. I was in the "advance" classes and still spent more time teaching others in the class then learning anything myself.
#14
School is becoming a joke; most of it is memorization, and leaves out how to use logic to just figure shit out; you just have to memorize what they tell you, and do the homework.
#15
All of my teachers hate NCLB
and so do the majority of the upper intelligence class in school.


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#16
I don't get why the pull funding away from schools that do badly. It seems like those are the schools that require more funding, not less. I school can do badly, lose funding, do even worse next time and repeat. That sounds like a horrible system.
#17
Quote by herby190
School is becoming a joke; most of it is memorization, and leaves out how to use logic to just figure shit out; you just have to memorize what they tell you, and do the homework.

Which is terrible for people like me, terrible memory but deeply rooted in logical thinking.
#18
Quote by kaosfire
Which is terrible for people like me, terrible memory but deeply rooted in logical thinking.

Similar for me. I never study... at all. Luckily, I have enough logic that when the teacher explains it once, I get it. Then, while everyone else is trying to figure out what the **** he's talking about by asking questions, thereby frustrating him, I take out the homework, finish it, then fall asleep. But I'm pretty much screwed when it comes to those stupid projects where you glue a bunch of shit to posterboard or whatever, so I just give up on those, or do it on a school computer.
#19
Quote by herby190
Similar for me. I never study... at all. Luckily, I have enough logic that when the teacher explains it once, I get it. Then, while everyone else is trying to figure out what the **** he's talking about by asking questions, thereby frustrating him, I take out the homework, finish it, then fall asleep. But I'm pretty much screwed when it comes to those stupid projects where you glue a bunch of shit to posterboard or whatever, so I just give up on those, or do it on a school computer.

I know what your feelin man. 80% of school for me has been just going over things I already knew or picked up rather quickly.

Although my hw ethic lately has been terrible all of a sudden over the last 2 weeks. I have some sort of mental block where I just cannot get myself to do it for some reason, ive been thinking of talking to a counselor about it.

well thats my half on topic, half i just need to actually say it finally rant for the day....
#20
... I don't really know the whole "No Child Left Behind" thing too well, but what does cutting funding have to do with anything? Is it just supposed to be motivation, or what?
#22
They also don't factor in the differences of students, ie they don't separate the scores of mentally challenged children from the scores of valedictorians, and both are held to the same standards on the exact same tests. Even if only one kid falls below the set standard the school is put on a "watch" list, and if it happens again the school loses funding (or at least that's how understand it from what my teachers have told me). Instead of really improving much it just forces the teachers to put tons of effort into preparing for the test rather than directing more attention into their own curriculum.

Also, lol at foreign kids trying to sound like they know all about American government.
#23
the only thing that the NCLBA does is preach mediocrity. No one is allowed to excel in the classroom anymore, due to the push for equality. its bullshit man, let the kids who want excel, and let the ones who don't care drop out, it's about making a decision...
#24
There are a lot of problems with NCLB. But it was Bush's legitimate attempt (support by ****ing Ted Kennedy, of all people) to bring America up to speed with other countries in terms of literacy and test scores.

Having attended public schools in a state (Vermont) where the schoolboard is extremely liberal and pretty much lets any curriculum whatsoever go, I think SOME federal intervention is needed in education so kids aren't learning random crap that bad teachers decide to teach. I don't fault Bush for NCLB, but I think it just didn't work as well as people had hoped.
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#25
Quote by herby190
... I don't really know the whole "No Child Left Behind" thing too well, but what does cutting funding have to do with anything? Is it just supposed to be motivation, or what?

yea thats the backwards thinking of the bush administration, if the kids want their school to have money they should get the grades for it.

It doesnt factor in the fact that most kids in k-12 hate school because they feel they are forced to be there and resent it (though later in life i beleive they will see the value, i can and im 17 but my friends view school as a burdern rather than opportunity)
#26
i knew this no child left behind thing existed (because it was on super size me, lol) but i didnt know what it actually was until yesterday when i read that guys rant in the demotivational pictures thread and this thread here.

sounds like an absolute load of bullshit and when it says no child left behind to me that should mean more help for the kids who are being left behind to bring them up with everybody else but it sounds like whats actually happening is everyone is being pulled back to the level of the dumbest kid (sorry buddy, you know who you are :p.
#27
I still don't get the name "No Child Left Behind"... Isn't it doing just the opposite?
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