#1
First of all I want to say: I have watch FP's video on muting time and again and extol it's virtues at every opportunity so if you're going to post a link to it stop now and actually read the rest of my post before you go ahead.

Now that that's done with I can get to the crux of the problem:

I am having severe problems with muting open string noise at any kind of speed. I'm working on that slowly but surely and I've already made significant progress over where I was only yesterday but my question is this:

How the hell do/did Buckethead, Paul Gilbert and Shawn Lane manage to play so cleanly with no string noise while at the same time having a completely floating hand? Up until about 48 hours ago I had a hand position similar to PG and Buckethead and thought I was fine until I recorded myself playing absolutely solo for the first time in a while and discovered that there is string noise everywhere while I have my hand in the position so what's so different about what they're doing to what I was doing?
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#3
Are you talking about picking hand muting or fret hand muting?
Originally posted by TapMaster
If you break a JEM you know your going to go to hell when you die

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#4
Quote by szekelymihai
i wouldnt trust a guy giving lessons and not knowing this technique


No, I know exactly what I have to do to fix my own technique and that's fine I'm just confused as to how some people manage to be perfectly clean and display no evidence of muting at all.

Quote by public property
Are you talking about picking hand muting or fret hand muting?


self

Pick hand muting, the whole thing just confuses me because you can see in the video of Nottingham Lace that's part of the Guitars Suck compilation that's been hanging around on google videos forever you can clearly see his hand completely floating, no signs of pick hand muting at all.
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#5
I couldn't find the particular video you meant but I found one of nottingham lace and he is definately pick hand muting with the karate chop part of his hand, its very light and barely touching the strings at all.

I guess we will need a video of your playing to help you better
Originally posted by TapMaster
If you break a JEM you know your going to go to hell when you die

Only member of the 'This is too immature for me' club.
#6
The video of Nottingham Lace I'm thinking of is in here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7370023627894437872&ei=mRgGSeuvCYaQ2AKAx2g&q=guitars+suck

Nottingham Lace itself doesn't start until about 5:30 and the shot I'm thinking of is at about 6:18 when there's a side on view of him in the middle of a pretty speedy run and his hand isn't touching the guitar at all...unless the low quality of it is just messing with me which I guess is possible.

You seem to be misunderstanding though: I don't need any help with my technique, I know what I need to do to solve my problem and I know how to go about doing it, I'm just trying to get my head around the mechanics of other people's playing. I guess this is more of a discussion than the standard help thread.
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#7
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
How the hell do/did Buckethead, Paul Gilbert and Shawn Lane manage to play so cleanly with no string noise while at the same time having a completely floating hand? Up until about 48 hours ago I had a hand position similar to PG and Buckethead and thought I was fine until I recorded myself playing absolutely solo for the first time in a while and discovered that there is string noise everywhere while I have my hand in the position so what's so different about what they're doing to what I was doing?


They're doing it better, is the short, honest answer.

Shawn is the only real exception, he has phenomenal (terrifying) left hand muting, and unbelievable precision with his legato. He would generally have a more float-y hand position as well, and (read my lips) - as a result, has more string noise. I've heard Shawn make more mistakes in that regard than PG.

A lot of this is left hand precision and muting as well - your left hand is more likely to create noise, and is just as important when it comes to muting (arguably more so, but we're talking about lead guitar, so we're up on the higher 3 strings more often than not).

Anyway, hoped that helped.
#8
So it's actually got more to do with their de-fretting technique than what they're doing with their pick hands is what you're saying? Or at least in Lane's case at the very least.

I feel enlightened, thanks guys, with any luck I'll have my own muting problem solved in a few days, or weeks if I hit a snag at some point
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#11
Ok, I might be totally misunderstanding this thread, but are you talking about something like what Angus does when playing Thunderstruck live?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXCBUCQTQM

Clearly, he is playing legato and is not muting the bottom 4 strings- he's waving his pick-hand in the air. I don't care how accurate your legato is, or how good your left-hand muting is, the lower strings, in this situation, will simply ring out on their own if you do not mute them.

Obviously, this performance was made to be a music video, so I'm assuming the sound isn't really "live." I'm sure they touched up everything (apparently Kiss' "Alive!" is like 75% studio!). Interestingly enough, I read in a Guitar World that on the studio version of "Thunderstruck" (where Angus is NOT playing legato- he picks everything), they taped down (or even removed) the other strings that he wasn't using. I'm sorry, but that's f'ing weak.

I looked at several other live clips of "Thunderstuck" on Youtube, and other than the music video, Angus is NOT playing legato.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only other way you could get away with legato playing on the higher strings and not use your pick-hand to mute the lower strings would be if you had some sort of damping system like Michael Angelo Batio. When he's doing his double-neck legato playing, he obviously has no pick hand with which to mute. So he has these things attached that mute the strings. The downside is that I assume you cannot play open strings, and that if you played normally with one of these things attached, you would fall into bad habits and get incredibly sloppy with your muting, since you wouldn't actually have to mute!


So, am I on topic here? Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Also, does my understanding of muting make sense?

Zaphod, I watched that video, and at 6:18 it looks to me like he is clearly muting with his right hand.
#12
^ yeah, it looked to me like right hand muting, but I'm on a terrible PC and was getting about a frame a second. Didn't want to pass judgement yet.

I've seen Thorendal from Meshuggah with treble strings "taped" together, and there's some nu-metaller that only has 4 strings on any of his guitars.
#13
Quote by Freepower
^ yeah, it looked to me like right hand muting, but I'm on a terrible PC and was getting about a frame a second. Didn't want to pass judgement yet.

I've seen Thorendal from Meshuggah with treble strings "taped" together, and there's some nu-metaller that only has 4 strings on any of his guitars.


Well as I said; I could very well be wrong, the video isn't exactly 1080p quality

I don't know why Thordendal does that to be honest, he obviously doesn't actually need to because he doesn't do it when playing live with Meshuggah.

The only guy I can think of who has 4 strings on his guitars is Max Cavalera from Sepultura/Soulfly/Cavalera Conspiracy, he claims he does it because he never plays lead so why bother?
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#14
^ that's the chap. Thorendal doesn't need to - but it's an interesting snippet. Didn't Satch play some tune in the studio with a sock muting the open strings? No idea which one though. Just pointing out it's as valid a recording technique as punch-ins or noise gates.
#15
Quote by fixationdarknes
Hey I totally know what you mean Zaphod. I'm glad you made this thread because I have always wondered that as well in the back of my mind.

I also wondered that too, I was just too scared to make a thread for it.

In Paul Gilbert's case, is he muting so well and so fluidly that it just doesn't look like he's muting at all?
#17
Quote by Freepower
^ Gilbert's always muting, watch his left index and his right hand.

Oh shit, You're right! I don't know if I need to get my brain checked or my eyes checked.
#18
Quote by Freepower
^ that's the chap. Thorendal doesn't need to - but it's an interesting snippet. Didn't Satch play some tune in the studio with a sock muting the open strings? No idea which one though. Just pointing out it's as valid a recording technique as punch-ins or noise gates.


No he practised the arpeggios from The Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing with a sock, which is understandable since holding your arm like that for any prolonged period of time is a pain in the ass I'm not sure if it was recorded like that though
Originally posted by TapMaster
If you break a JEM you know your going to go to hell when you die

Only member of the 'This is too immature for me' club.
#19
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
The only guy I can think of who has 4 strings on his guitars is Max Cavalera from Sepultura/Soulfly/Cavalera Conspiracy, he claims he does it because he never plays lead so why bother?

Sepultura are great...
but Max is ****ing dumb as hell if he said that, that will restrict his playing to something of a bass guitar and nobyd wants that.. nobody
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#20
Quote by trivium036
Sepultura are great...
but Max is ****ing dumb as hell if he said that, that will restrict his playing to something of a bass guitar and nobyd wants that.. nobody


1 - There is nothing restrictive about only having four strings, listen to Jaco Pastorius, Victor Wooten and Stu Hamm for proof.

2 - He has only ever player rhythm in his bands because there have always been better lead players around, why should he concern himself with muting the higher strings when he never uses them? He's a prefectly good riffer without them and if not having to think about muting means he can put on a better live show then I'm all for it.

3 - Yes, Cavalera-era Sepultura were great.
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#21
PG is excellent at muting, and is typically doing most of it via his right hand.

Almost every guitarist mutes with their first finger on their left hand, however. It is by far the easiest way to mute when playing legato, or fast ascending econo-licks.

HOWEVER, I tend to believe that muting technique develops on its own. I never practiced muting directly, and my playing is fast and clean. As long as you make sure to play slowly and cleanly and speed up from there, you will be fine.

First finger muting is a must, but right hand muting comes with time IMO.
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#22
Quote by nvranka
PG is excellent at muting, and is typically doing most of it via his right hand.

Almost every guitarist mutes with their first finger on their left hand, however. It is by far the easiest way to mute when playing legato, or fast ascending econo-licks.

HOWEVER, I tend to believe that muting technique develops on its own. I never practiced muting directly, and my playing is fast and clean. As long as you make sure to play slowly and cleanly and speed up from there, you will be fine.

First finger muting is a must, but right hand muting comes with time IMO.


Well obviously it doesn't always; I've been playing for almost 7 years and had no pick hand muting until I started practicing it shortly before posting this thread.
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#24
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Well obviously it doesn't always; I've been playing for almost 7 years and had no pick hand muting until I started practicing it shortly before posting this thread.


How is it possible to play 7 years and not pick hand mute.....

I cannot fathom how bad you sound.
Jackson KV2 USA Snow White/Black Bevels
#25
Quote by nvranka
How is it possible to play 7 years and not pick hand mute.....

I cannot fathom how bad you sound.

If he plays in a clean channel, it won't really affect it.