#1
I really love my '05 Les Paul Custom.....I played a bunch of new and old ones before I found this baby....I was not that impressed with a lot of the older models I played (from the 70's and 80's)

what do you guys think about some of this vintage "hype" that goes on with Gibson and Fender????
#2
Meh, I wouldn't mind a vintage guitar, just to say I have it. But I wouldn't play it , because it would be too valuble, and I would break it knowing me.
Cam Sampbell's my hero
#3
I get the impression that a lot of the time you're simply paying for it's age, and that they're not as superior to newer models as some people say.
#4
I think its mostly rubbish, I mean Les Pauls are Les Pauls, sure there's gonna be some subtle difference but the formula is the same. Good Les Pauls sound very similar and Gibson still make good guitars.

EDIT: So do Fender
Last edited by lewis_grey at Oct 27, 2008,
#5
With Fender it really has more to do with the CBS era. CBS bought Fender in 1965 and wasn't high. Fender was bought back in 1985 and quality has been better since.
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#6
Quote by EdgedInBlue
With Fender it really has more to do with the CBS era. CBS bought Fender in 1965 and wasn't high. Fender was bought back in 1985 and quality has been better since.


yeah, ur right...I also have a '89 American Standard that is really good
#7
Old Gibsons are much better than the new ones. I'd take any pre-90's Gibson over a new one anyday.

And the same with pre-CBS Fender. I can tell you the're a HUGE difference between them. Not as much as the price they cost, but still an important difference.

It's a fact that no new guitar is going to sound like an old one, due to the age. And good Fender and Gibsons age well.

PS: I wouldn't only get a vintage guitar for collecting, but also for playing. I'm a vintage geek
- Fender American Standard Ash Telecaster w/ DiMarzio Chopper T & Twang King
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#8
Quote by Jeffmo929
I really love my '05 Les Paul Custom.....I played a bunch of new and old ones before I found this baby....I was not that impressed with a lot of the older models I played (from the 70's and 80's)

what do you guys think about some of this vintage "hype" that goes on with Gibson and Fender????


Old Gibsons. Old growth honduras mahogany, brazillian rosewood fingerboards, European flame maple tops. Long neck tenons, hand built, hand-wired pickups CTS pots and bumblebee caps. Jumbo frets, huuuuuge necks.

New Gibsons: Mahogany, thinner maple caps, swiss cheese weight relieve holes/chambering. Short tenon on most models, mass produced, mass produced pickups, standard pots etc...


Old Gibsons had care and quality. That's the difference.
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#9
^ That's it. Old guitars were made with much more care than nowadays, so that's going to make a difference.
- Fender American Standard Ash Telecaster w/ DiMarzio Chopper T & Twang King
- Alhambra 5P
- Laney Lionheart L5T-112
- Line 6 POD XT
- Suhr Shiba Drive
- MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
- Dunlop Cry Baby
#10
WARNING: RANT AHEAD!


I don't give a rats ass about vintage guitars.

There are old Gibson and Fender guitars that are really excellent. That's because they've been carefully handmade back in the day with good tone woods and quality made pickups.

Not all of these features can be expected from nowaday's factory guitars. They're made to provide a decent quality for a price that the average joe won't mind paying.

Therefore comparing one to another and complaining about it is pretty pointless. A factory made guitar is most likely to be a compromise of cost and quality, it is not intended to be a guitarist's wet dream.

If you want something of excellent quality, there are a lot of skilled luthiers and custom shops around. They can deliver the quality you want from vintage guitars, if you've got the cash to pay them. It's not like guitar companies had some magical guitar recipe fifty years back that got lost somewhere.

You can get a guitar that rivals old Fenders and Gibsons in build quality and given time it will sound and feel just as good. Yeah, guitars get better with time, but only if you play them! It's not like vintage guitars get their sound from standing in the corner. (That's why I'd be suspicious of 'mint' vintage guitars - they look like new because they were rarely used, but don't you wonder why nobody played them in the last 30 or so years? Probably because they suck big time - not every old guitar is good.)

And do you really think that the first solid body electrics that have been made were automatically the best design possible? That these first tries were perfect for any musical situation and the end of the electric guitar's evolution before it even begun? That all the things that have been tweaked and improved didn't actually do the guitar any good, but were done for shits and giggles? You must be fucking kidding.

Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for an old, good guitar. But I don't think it's the holy grail or anything. On many of these guitars the hardware is worn out and they're hardly usable anyomore. It's a cool thing to have such a guitar if you're a collector. It's not for the working musician though.
There are vintage guitars that are in perfect working order, yes, but they're about as rarely seen as bigfoot and not worth the 10000$ you have to pay for them, if you need them as a guitarist, not as a collector.

Another thing is that fake vintage guitars have been popping up more and more often. Some people speculate that up to 70% of todays vintage guitars are fakes. I'm not too sure about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Lots of money can be made with old guitars.

Last thing that pisses me off is the ignorance of some people. I saw a CBS Fender go for 12000€ on German ebay about a week ago. A goddamn CBS Fender. They're known to be horrid. Two days or so back a guy here asked whether he should go for a Les paul from '83 or '94 and a bunch of f*cking idiots told him to get the older one because apperantly Gibson had higher manufacturing standards in the past.
In the '50s, yeah, probably. But early '80s Gibsons are known to be some of the worst guitars the company ever put out. Conclusion: Get your facts straight, that it's old means............. that it's old! Exactly that and nothing more.

I get the feeling that the minds of people hear and feel things about vintage guitars that even the best trained ears can't hear and hands can't feel.


EDIT: Rant is over now, feel free to flame me.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Oct 27, 2008,
#11
Quote by TheQuailman
WARNING: RANT AHEAD!


I don't give a rats ass about vintage guitars.

There are old Gibson and Fender guitars that are really excellent. That's because they've been carefully handmade back in the day with good tone woods and quality made pickups.

Not all of these features can be expected from nowaday's factory guitars. They're made to provide a decent quality for a price that the average joe won't mind paying.

Therefore comparing one to another and complaining about it is pretty pointless. A factory made guitar is most likely to be a compromise of cost and quality, it is not intended to be a guitarist's wet dream.

If you want something of excellent quality, there are a lot of skilled luthiers and custom shops around. They can deliver the quality you want from vintage guitars, if you've got the cash to pay them. It's not like guitar companies had some magical guitar recipe fifty years back that got lost somewhere.

You can get a guitar that rivals old Fenders and Gibsons in build quality and given time it will sound and feel just as good. Yeah, guitars get better with time, but only if you play them! It's not like vintage guitars get their sound from standing in the corner. (That's why I'd be suspicious of 'mint' vintage guitars - they look like new because they were rarely used, but don't you wonder why nobody played them in the last 30 or so years? Probably because they suck big time - not every old guitar is good.)

And do you really think that the first solid body electrics that have been made were automatically the best design possible? That these first tries were perfect for any musical situation and the end of the electric guitar's evolution before it even begun? That all the things that have been tweaked and improved didn't actually do the guitar any good, but were done for shits and giggles? You must be fucking kidding.

Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for an old, good guitar. But I don't think it's the holy grail or anything. On many of these guitars the hardware is worn out and they're hardly usable anyomore. It's a cool thing to have such a guitar if you're a collector. It's not for the working musician though.
There are vintage guitars that are in perfect working order, yes, but they're about as rarely seen as bigfoot and not worth the 10000$ you have to pay for them, if you need them as a guitarist, not as a collector.

Another thing is that fake vintage guitars have been popping up more and more often. Some people speculate that up to 70% of todays vintage guitars are fakes. I'm not too sure about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Lots of money can be made with old guitars.

Last thing that pisses me off is the ignorance of some people. I saw a CBS Fender go for 12000€ on German ebay about a week ago. A goddamn CBS Fender. They're known to be horrid. Two days or so back a guy here asked whether he should go for a Les paul from '83 or '94 and a bunch of f*cking idiots told him to get the older one because apperantly Gibson had higher manufacturing standards in the past.
In the '50s, yeah, probably. But early '80s Gibsons are known to be some of the worst guitars the company ever put out. Conclusion: Get your facts straight, that it's old means............. that it's old! Exactly that and nothing more.

I get the feeling that the minds of people hear and feel things about vintage guitars that even the best trained ears can't hear and hands can't feel.


EDIT: Rant is over now, feel free to flame me.


Dude, I agree with you 99%......just seems to me people who have money and don't play guitar have really ramped up the price of these older guitars......I also noticed with Gibson's especially that they are VERY inconsistant......probably has something to do with at least the older one's being completely HAND Built!
#12
Quote by TheQuailman
BIG RANT

I agree, in addition to my other post. It would be the same of buying an old car aswell; it looks cool and vintage but you'd have to be sure that guitar works in the first place, years of playing and weather changes might damage the wood and electronics. Which is bad, especially if you payed £10000 on the guitar.

Just to add to that.
Cam Sampbell's my hero
#13
Seems to me like the 50s, 60s, and 90s Gibsons are the best. In the late 60s and until 1985, Gibson was owned by Norlin, who basically drove the company almost into the ground by using cost-cutting manufacturing methods. These guitars are generally known as crap although there are some very nice ones. By the 90s, Gibson had their act back together. Gibson is sinking back down in to the mud, though, unfortunately. As a result, if you gave me a choice between a brand-new 2008 Les Paul Studio and, say, a 1994 Studio, 9 times out of 10 the '94 is going to be the better guitar.
#14
The BIG RANT has a lot of truths to it.

I would never drop 100K on a guitar. I could get one built with the same quality and care for less than a tenth of the price.


The vintage guitar market is a funny thing.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#15
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
The BIG RANT has a lot of truths to it.

I would never drop 100K on a guitar. I could get one built with the same quality and care for less than a tenth of the price.


The vintage guitar market is a funny thing.


agreed.....I think the whole market has gotten way out of hand!!!!
it's not geared toward true players but collectors that will just hang it on a wall or put it in a glass case and never play it....what a shame!
#16
Well, that's the problem then. Not the quality, they're much better than nowadays' guitars... but who's gonna pay over $10000 (at least) just for a guitar?

I love vintage gear, I think it's the best, but there's no way I'd spend that much for it. I'm a guitarist, not a rich collector!

If it went down to prices real people could pay, then I'd consider getting something :P
- Fender American Standard Ash Telecaster w/ DiMarzio Chopper T & Twang King
- Alhambra 5P
- Laney Lionheart L5T-112
- Line 6 POD XT
- Suhr Shiba Drive
- MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
- Dunlop Cry Baby
#17
Quote by Mahoru
Well, that's the problem then. Not the quality, they're much better than nowadays' guitars... but who's gonna pay over $10000 (at least) just for a guitar?

I love vintage gear, I think it's the best, but there's no way I'd spend that much for it. I'm a guitarist, not a rich collector!

If it went down to prices real people could pay, then I'd consider getting something :P



True, the average working guitarist can't afford a guitar that expensive, plus I would be afraid to play out with something that expensive
#18
I agree with you, I would play it, but I'd have a lot of care

But I can tell you that nothing beats vintage guitars. The experience of playing a real '63 Strat through an original Marshall Plexi... unbelievable.
- Fender American Standard Ash Telecaster w/ DiMarzio Chopper T & Twang King
- Alhambra 5P
- Laney Lionheart L5T-112
- Line 6 POD XT
- Suhr Shiba Drive
- MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
- Dunlop Cry Baby
#19
If we are talking about the production quality Gibsons, the new ones are better. The only reason we have this argument is that the traditionalists cannot accept the usefulness of chambered bodies.

Does anyone think that CBS fenders are better than modern day fenders, or is it just accepted that CBS sucks massive balls?
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#20
i think this whole concept of vintage>new was developed from classic instruments like the violin and such. thats just my 2 cents
#21
Quote by kranoscorp
If we are talking about the production quality Gibsons, the new ones are better. The only reason we have this argument is that the traditionalists cannot accept the usefulness of chambered bodies.

Does anyone think that CBS fenders are better than modern day fenders, or is it just accepted that CBS sucks massive balls?


I think it is accepted that they do "suck massive balls"!!! LOL
#22
I have a 68 and a 2008. I have been playing the 68 since 1980 so it feels like an extension of me. I have also had a lot of set up work done to it. If one was looking for a player today, I would recommend a new one. Hard to find a good oldie.
2008 Gibson LP
1968 Gibson LP
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#23
Quote by 996ttcab
I have a 68 and a 2008. I have been playing the 68 since 1980 so it feels like an extension of me. I have also had a lot of set up work done to it. If one was looking for a player today, I would recommend a new one. Hard to find a good oldie.


cool, agreed, I have a Custom '05 that I'm just in love with.....and I've played some older ones (mainly '70's)...but really like the feel and sound of this one!
#24
Depends really. If you want the true vintage vibe of 1 of a kind guitars where they are all different just because they weren't built with larger tolerances then some older guitars are better. Also Gibsons and a few other brands that use nitrocellulose finishes allow the guitar to age and become a better sounding guitar.

The new guitars are built with extremely low (in comparison to old ones) tolerances, with identical parts to remain more consistant. Gibson has quite a few techniques as far as the frets, intonation, hardware, tuners, truss rods, pickups, bridges, weight relieving, quality of wiring that have "improved" the guitars given that you like a better players guitar.

Basically to summarize what I said to an extent older guitars are more toneful while newer guitars are better players guitars.

As far as new guitars go also, handmade isn't always the best option. Look at PRS and Carvin. Machine built guitars. Exceptional quality.
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