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#2
he's against people believing in them, not in telling them.
Any book that teaches kids rationality is a good one.
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Quote by CrackAddict2000
I find it quite astonishing how you managed to post this if the site is just a man with a beard.
#3
Look, Dawkins has something in common with Christians now!

edit: way to warp the story TS.

He's just writing a science book for kids based on fairytales and mythology.
Last edited by freedoms_stain at Oct 27, 2008,
#5
Quote by freedoms_stain
Look, Dawkins has something in common with Christians now!


I agree, that is stupid of him. I've never met someone who grows up thinking that dragons are real and such because of fairy tales. The only book that has the power to do that is the Bible, so that is what we must focus on.
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#6
Quote by gourd42
he's against people believing in them, not in telling them.
Any book that teaches kids rationality is a good one.
who believes harry potter
#7
I'm an athiest also, but Dawkins is a bit of an elitist.

A brilliant man, but an elitist nontheless.
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#8
Gee, did he ever stop to think that the absence of creative thinking and imagination during a child's development would be more harmful than the kid believing in Santa Clause until he's 8 years old?
#9
Quote by dudetheman
I'm an athiest also, but Dawkins is a bit of an elitist.

A brilliant man, but an elitist nontheless.


I've met the man and I would call him more of an arrogant **** than an elitist...
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#10
Quote by Glen'sHeroicAct
Gee, did he ever stop to think that the absence of creative thinking and imagination would be more harmful than a kid believing in Santa Clause until he's 8 years old?
Believe it or not, you can know facts and still have an imagination.

edit: point in fact, Alan Moore knows more shit about the facts behind mythology than the vast majority of people and remains incredibly creative.
#11
You guys aren't understanding, he's not saying that they make you believe in the fairy tells them selves, but further deteriorate your belief in Science, which it does.
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#13
Quote by DSchmitty
You guys aren't understanding, he's not saying that they make you believe in the fairy tells them selves, but further deteriorate your belief in Science, which it does.


Reading fables and shit as a child never did anything to deteriorate my belief in science, because nothing in said fairy tales is meant to be taken as fact.
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#14
Quote by schecter_guy
why can't this guy just accept that not everyone thinks the same way he does? i'm not a fan of richard dawkins.


I'll agree with you there. The guy knows his stuff, no denying that, he just pushes it far too hard on people. He is on the same level really as those annoying Christians who come up to you in town centers and try and convert you...
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#16
What a tit
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#17
whats he talking about? witches and wizards are real, i know they are! i read about them!

lol

I disagree with him, without these fairy tale books kids would have a smaller imagination, reading about things makes them thinks about it, but it wont hinder their scientific thinking, i mean, how many of you guys know people that believe in this stuff?

taking fairy tales away is taking the fun from the children
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#18
Fantasy tales are just that, no one believes in them.
You can't have science without an imagination and fantasy is fuel for that.
#19
Quote by IDread
I'll agree with you there. The guy knows his stuff, no denying that, he just pushes it far too hard on people. He is on the same level really as those annoying Christians who come up to you in town centers and try and convert you...



I've never seen him approach a theist that didn't want to talk to him. He can be an ass back to theists that are asses to him, but he's not as arrogant as people say.


I see where he's coming from, but agree with him. Hopefully children aren't being told by their parents that Harry Potter is real. I do see how learning many illogical explanations for the world in childhood could possibly put a dent in overall logical processing, but I don't see Harry Potter as a major concern. I have loved fantasy stories since I was a child (And probably always will), but I'm an atheist who has no belief in magic. I think the proper way to not further confuse children with stories like this is teach them how to approach it correctly. (Which isn't hard, their parents just need to help them understand the concept of fictional stories and how they are a form of entertainment that is no more applicable to the real world than a cartoon. I'd imagine most parents do.)

I do respect Dawkins for not behaving like an extremist even if some percieve him as having "extremist" beliefs. Instead of attemping to censor the issue at hand, he plans on writing a book and putting out how he believes child education should be approached. It's the proper way to get your point across and not be a crazy prick.
#20
Quote by akm_202
whats he talking about? witches and wizards are real, i know they are! i read about them!

lol

I disagree with him, without these fairy tale books kids would have a smaller imagination, reading about things makes them thinks about it, but it wont hinder their scientific thinking, i mean, how many of you guys know people that believe in this stuff?

taking fairy tales away is taking the fun from the children


That's not what he's saying neither!

He just wants to create a children's book presenting science and logic. Teaching kids to follow evidence.
#21
Quote by DSchmitty
You guys aren't understanding, he's not saying that they make you believe in the fairy tells them selves, but further deteriorate your belief in Science, which it does.


I loved fairy tales as a kid, and I still love reading fantasy. And I study science. I think it's incorrect to say it deteriorates the belief of science. If anything, I think it may even possibly enhance the belief in science- science requires imagination to progress in our understanding.
#22
I have to say this guy made a few fair points. I mean yes it is taking away from a child's imagination and I don't like that, but he made a few points about labeling children that made a lot of sense. I know that being a catholic at the public school I went to as a child was horrifying. Other than that I really don't like him taking away the fairy tales, next he'll be stealing christmas.
#23
Quote by schecter_guy
why can't this guy just accept that not everyone thinks the same way he does? i'm not a fan of richard dawkins.



I've always believed the point wasn't that he thinks we should think like him, but we shouldn't believe in thinks we've no substantial reason to believe in
Which, although somewhat elitist, would in any other situation be considered 'being a good friend' or 'common sense' etc
Telling a friend the reality of a situation based upon the known facts, no matter how bad it might be, is considered being a good and honest friend, fair enough that's a microscopic example while Dawkins does it on a macroscopic scale, but to me the theory behind it is the same


Of course I'm a devout atheist, so feel free to dismiss my opinion due to bias, I've no real reason to worry or care
#24
Wow, there are some pretty ignorant posts in this thread.

Dawkins isn't trying to stop anyone doing anything. He's not trying to convert anyone to anything. He's just trying to show that people can lead fulfilled and wondrous lives without needing to believe in the supernatural or fairy tales.
#25
Quote by j_hunter_hkr
Dawkins isn't trying to stop anyone doing anything. He's not trying to convert anyone to anything.


Actually, lets face it, he is trying to convert people... Obviously not in the conventional sense, but he is. To make that observation is not ignorance either.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#26
It's relevant enough research. People will twist words to say what they want. Dawkins makes me cream.
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#27
Quote by garden of grey
I've never seen him approach a theist that didn't want to talk to him. He can be an ass back to theists that are asses to him, but he's not as arrogant as people say.


He was an ass to me I know that... And all I did was say hi and say it was an interesting lecture.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#29
Quote by Glen'sHeroicAct
Gee, did he ever stop to think that the absence of creative thinking and imagination during a child's development would be more harmful than the kid believing in Santa Clause until he's 8 years old?

"I think looking back to my own childhood, the fact that so many of the stories I read allowed the possibility of frogs turning into princes, whether that has a sort of insidious affect on rationality, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's something for research."


why, yes.

yes he did.

another quote of his I agree with is

"Do not ever call a child a Muslim child or a Christian child – that is a form of child abuse because a young child is too young to know what its views are about the cosmos or morality.


I think the next part went a bit overboard but meh.
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Quote by element4433
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#30
Quote by wizards?
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The will to neither strive nor cry,
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Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar and often convincing.
#33
That man is an absolute cunt.

his new book will also set out to demolish the "Judeo-Christian myth".


Children are supposed to be taught a range of different beliefs and opinions, so they have an unbiased choice as to how they want to live. What he wants to do is just indoctrination- injecting the next generation with what he believes, and making everything else out as bullshit.
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#34
Quote by wizards?
pfft... love, why not be on the internetz and get e-secks?

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Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar and often convincing.
#35
Quote by rabidguitarist
That man is an absolute cunt.


Children are supposed to be taught a range of different beliefs and opinions, so they have an unbiased choice as to how they want to live. What he wants to do is just indoctrination- injecting the next generation with what he believes, and making everything else out as bullshit.


hahahaha
#36
Quote by Lemoninfluence
why, yes.

yes he did.

another quote of his I agree with is


I think the next part went a bit overboard but meh.

No, he didn't. He mentioned that he was mulling over the possibilities of his reading fantasy books as a kid having insidious effects on his rationality, but he didn't mention the possible insidious effects of a child not going through those experiences. Fairy tales have existed since ancient times, and we've all turned out to be the way we are now. Unless he wants everyone to change into something that's different even from what he values (as every person he respects is the result of said development), there's no point in changing the process.
#38
Quote by LordBishek
hahahaha


Fuck off.

If you're so clever, then back up your contempt with an actual response.
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#39
Quote by rabidguitarist
Fuck off.

If you're so clever, then back up your contempt with an actual response.


No, no, it's just ironic that I could have swapped him for a lot of religious people in your posts, and it would still have been true.
#40
TS totally twisted this whole thing around.

I somewhat agree with Dawkins, even though I adore alot of fantasy writing, but I know that's what it is, fantasy.
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