#1
So I recently looked over novemberrains lessons on modes and breaking out of the box for soloing. http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/guitar_techniques/hopscotch_method_part_2.html. over all I like it alot but I am confused... there are different modes and say I started a song in maybe an A phygrian scale how would I stack the other modes with it so it isa ll in A? or is that method he describes just a tool to use for any key?
#2
well from what i know of modes if you are using the A phygrian scale which is the thrid modes you would be in the key of F(not A). so you could solo in these scale: F Ionian(major), G# dorian, A phygrian, Bb lydian, C mixolydian, D aeolian and E locrian. so you can use any of those scales to solo or mess around with when in the key of F.

but you said somethings about staking in the key of A. im not sure weither it was in refference to the A phygrian. but if you want to solo or do whatever in A you can use A ionian, B dorian, C# phygrian, D lydian, E mixolydian, F# aeolian and G# locrian. if your looking to use a as a key.

but just becasue you your in a phygrian it doesnt mean your in the key of A.

hope my crappy theory helped you out some.
#3
Well I see what you mean by A being in F. But also a little confusing.. why not just call it F phygrian then if its based out of F? is it just called A because thats where it starts?.... damn greeks.. lol
#4
Quote by fudger
well from what i know of modes if you are using the A phygrian scale which is the thrid modes you would be in the key of F(not A)..


Modal Music is different from tonal music so A phygrian is not the "Key of F".
Fmaj is the Key of F
Modes are usually played over vamps.
Soo.. if you want to play A phygrian then your gonna want to play chords that make A phygrian the "center"(or where it wants to resolve to)

Quote by ehlert99
Well I see what you mean by A being in F. But also a little confusing.. why not just call it F phygrian then if its based out of F? is it just called A because thats where it starts?.... damn greeks.. lol


Phygrian is 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 7
so F Phygrian would be F bG bA bB bC D E
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#5
well the phygrian mode is a set scale and you can play it on any note. but your tonic(your starting note) defines what key its in. for example you play a B phygrian you are in the key of G and if you play a G phygrian you are in the key of Eb. so when playing the A phygrian scale its the A phygrian scale but its in the key of F.

wait....i think you may be confused about why the A phygrian is in the key of F?? ill explain and if your aren't whatever.

well in the key of F the notes are F G A Bb C D E and the phygrian is the 3rd mode. so in F the third degree of the scale is A. so if you play the A phygrian it is in the key of F.
a
and ill go to a different key so you see another example lets go to the key of D. in the key of D the notes are D E F# G A B C#. so if you wanted to play the phygrian mode in the key of D you would go to the 3rd scale degree of D which is F# and play the phygrian in F#.

well i hope you what i was saying if you were confused in that area.

EDIT: well i was confusing myself i guess.
*runs away looking like a jacka***
Last edited by fudger at Oct 28, 2008,
#6
It will help you tremendously if you don't think of A Phrygian as "in the key of F". Think of it as "Am with a b2 - which coincidentally uses the same notes and patterns as F maj"

Even though you might use an F key signature if writing in standard notation but you should also put a little note at the start to state that the key signature indicates A Phrygian just to be clear that the piece is modal.

What a piece is "based" around is the note that acts as a point of resolution. In A Phrygian the "home" note is A, just as it is in A major and A minor and A Mixolydian. The difference is the notes you use to build relationships to that A home. This is why it is called A Phrygian.

I looked at the linked lesson. I have only one problem with it. What he shows you is how to play a major scale all over the neck. To be specific that lesson uses the G major scale. The guy shows you seven positions on the fretboard and discusses ideas on how to link them together.

Unfortunately he calls each of these positions a mode. This is a not an uncommon way of naming the positions but it is very misleading and each position could be named better. This is one of the biggest reasons people have so much trouble with modes and end up being confused by them.

It is otherwise a good article so take what you need from it but beware. What he showed are "patterns" or "box shapes" of the major scale across the fretboard and how to link them up. Switching from one to the other will only result in playing the Major scale at a different place on the fretboard. It is important you understand this and not think you are "switching modes" just because you switch positions. You would do well in your own practice to rename the positions maybe 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 or Trixie, Candy, Coco whatever.

All seven of the positions he showed can be used to play G major. All seven of the positions could be used to play A Dorian if the resulting melody identifies A as the home note or if the underlying harmony resolved to A. All seven of the positions can be Phrygian if the resulting melody identifies B as the home note or if the underlying harmony resolved to B. All seven of the positions can be Lydian if the resulting melody identifies C as the home note or if the underlying harmony resolved to C.

However if you are playing C Lydian you are NOT playing A Dorian and you are not playing G Major - even though they share the same patterns across the fretboard you will be using those patterns and the notes in different ways to achieve a modal result.

Do you understand?

As for you question, yes the method he described is a tool used for every key. The patterns always occur in the same order and link together in the same way to create one big major scale over the entire fretboard. You shift the whole pattern up two frets and you have A major, up two more an you have B major.

Hope this helps.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Oct 28, 2008,
#7
well the phygrian mode is a set scale and you can play it on any note. but your tonic(your starting note) defines what key its in. for example you play a B phygrian you are in the key of G and if you play a G phygrian you are in the key of Eb. so when playing the A phygrian scale its the A phygrian scale but its in the key of F.


Key is not the same as key signature. E phrygian is not in the key of C major, nor does it have anything in common with C major beyond the notes.

Your first post was wrong as well. Modes are defined by the underlying harmony, not a pattern on the fretboard. If the song is in E phrygian, you play E phrygian. If you want to play F ionian (not the same as major), write a song in F ionian, They are not interchangeable.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#8
Quote by ehlert99
Well I see what you mean by A being in F. But also a little confusing.. why not just call it F phygrian then if its based out of F? is it just called A because thats where it starts?.... damn greeks.. lol

because A is the note the mode is REVOLVING around. Its not based out of the key of F either, it simply contains the same notes. Changing the tonal center changes the scale completly
#9
Thanks tiger, you put it in a little more perspective for me, I am still a little confused but that was intended with modes.... Anyone know of a good guide I can go to for it?
#10
For me the easiest way to break into modes was to sit down at a piano (dare i bring up an instrument without frets?)
When you play an ionian scale on a piano in the key of C, you play only the white keys. This shape--whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step--can be applied from any other key. It can also be put on guitar, where each fret corresponds to a half step.
All the other "church" modes happen the same way. Playing only white keys between D and D is dorian mode, E is phrygian, F is lydian, G is mixolydian, A is aeolian, and B is locrian.
If you have a keyboard or something try that. If youre playing in A Aeolian (natural minor) try to solo in Ionian in the key of C.