#1
I posted this earlier but now I know the cause and I am concerned. There are two cracks on both sides of the neck, they stem from the nut. They are perfectly parallel with the neck, starting from the nut they end at about the first fret.

I noticed what I thought was a scratch in the same spot when the guitar was brand new, straight out of the case. The first time I discovered that it was a crack was after my guitar teacher tightened the truss rod. (he moved it about 1/4th turn.) This was when I discovered the second crack on the other side too. (this was about a week ago.)

I asked him about it yesterday and he recommended me a luthier. At the time I didn't know the cause, but here is why I am concerned.

Just now I was getting some buzz way up near the 20th fret, already pretty high action, so I figured I'd tighten the rod. I did it about 1/8th of a turn to be safe. I could see IN REAL TIME the fricken cracks growing and widening, RIGHT after I turned it.

I'm wondering, if I took it to a luthier and he glued up the cracks and what not, would they just reappear as soon as I tightened the rod again?

It sucks because there is SO much relief in the neck, being a new guitar and all. I can't get rid of this buzz without tightening it some, but I can't tighten it without making the cracks grow. I'm not even sure if tightening it will help, because whats happening is the fretboard is staying in the same spot, but the neck is moving back with the rod, so I think this is what is causing the cracks.
Last edited by danleary at Oct 29, 2008,
#2
Here, I drew a highly detailed illustration to demonstrate what is happening better. Don't have a camera on hand.



If I flipped the neck around it would look exactly the same on the other side.
#3
Your truss may not be able to allow for that kind of adjustment on the tension. . . . I recommend reading about truss rod adjustments on www.fretnotguitarrepair.com . Honestly, how do you check your action, just because it is high doesn't always mean the action is off, it could be a number of things, and take that into consideration anytime you mess with a guitar. . ..
Quote by paranoid joker

Metal, should kick you in the nuts, after you catch it messing around with your girlfriend.
and then make a sandwhich in your house and walk out.


Http://www.myspace.com/drowningiris
#4
Quote by notsee
Your truss may not be able to allow for that kind of adjustment on the tension. . . . I recommend reading about truss rod adjustments on www.fretnotguitarrepair.com . Honestly, how do you check your action, just because it is high doesn't always mean the action is off, it could be a number of things, and take that into consideration anytime you mess with a guitar. . ..


This was more about getting rid of the relief then the action. I can really see the forward bow just by looking at the guitar across the room from 5 feet away. When I did turn it, you could really feel the relief because I didn't have to apply any force at all to move it, was very loose. My guitar teacher has been playing 30 years, he turned the rod even more then I did. If there is a wrong way to tighten a rod how about speaking up instead of just uselessly telling me how wrong I am in what I did.

This isn't the first time I've "messed" with a guitar either. In fact, this was a replacement guitar for a different one of the same model that I sent back. I did the same adjustments on that one and I had no problems or cracking whatsoever. (es-335)

I have raised the bridge a considerable amount and have about a 4 mm gap at the 6-7th frets, still getting buzz on the upper frets. His advice to me was to tighten the rod slightly when this happens. I would never do more then one adjustment every couple days just to be safe that the wood doesn't get damaged.

I am not totally ignorant like you seem to think I am... I know how to adjust a truss rod. Besides, the crack was there before any adjustments were even made to the guitar, right when it was brand new. At the time it was very thin, I thought it was a scratch so I payed no mind. It wasn't until my teacher did an adjustment that it was made obvious the scratch was really a crack. This was before I even touched the thing!

I always thought 1/8th-1/4th of a turn was standard, do YOU know how to adjust a truss rod? Or did you just google that page and find the little entry about cracks to demonstrate your superior knowledge of guitar? I didn't apply much force at all if that is what you are implying, please know what you are talking about before telling someone they did something wrong.

I'm sorry I'm coming across as a dick (I'll be the first to admit I am one), I'm just not in a very good mood right now.
Last edited by danleary at Oct 29, 2008,
#5
Quote by danleary
This was more about getting rid of the relief then the action. I can really see the forward bow just by looking at the guitar across the room from 5 feet away. When I did turn it, you could really feel the relief because I didn't have to apply any force at all to move it, was very loose. My guitar teacher has been playing 30 years, he turned the rod even more then I did. If there is a wrong way to tighten a rod how about speaking up instead of just uselessly telling me how wrong I am in what I did.

This isn't the first time I've "messed" with a guitar either. In fact, this was a replacement guitar for a different one of the same model that I sent back. I did the same adjustments on that one and I had no problems or cracking whatsoever. (es-335)

I have raised the bridge a considerable amount and have about a 4 mm gap at the 6-7th frets, still getting buzz on the upper frets. His advice to me was to tighten the rod slightly when this happens. I would never do more then one adjustment every couple days just to be safe that the wood doesn't get damaged.

I am not totally ignorant like you seem to think I am... I know how to adjust a truss rod. Besides, the crack was there before any adjustments were even made to the guitar, right when it was brand new. At the time it was very thin, I thought it was a scratch so I payed no mind. It wasn't until my teacher did an adjustment that it was made obvious the scratch was really a crack. This was before I even touched the thing!

I always thought 1/8th-1/4th of a turn was standard, do YOU know how to adjust a truss rod? Or did you just google that page and find the little entry about cracks to demonstrate your superior knowledge of guitar? I didn't apply much force at all if that is what you are implying, please know what you are talking about before telling someone they did something wrong.

I'm sorry I'm coming across as a dick (I'll be the first to admit I am one), I'm just not in a very good mood right now.



may i ask wat make your guitar is?
ive had the same problem with my vintage v100, completely ruined my mood
Wait.



Roger Waters - 12th May!
#6
It's a Gibson ES-335 reissue. My teacher suggested taking it to a luthier. I dunno man, I'm probably gonna take it to the shop this or next week. I've heard this kind of repair is pretty expensive for regular cracks alone ($100-$200). The thing that worries me is that even if I get it repaired, would it just crack again once I adjust the rod? I'm hoping it's fixable. I already sent one back to Gibson, I'd hate to have to send the replacement guitar back.
#7
Well with that kiss of death on the guitar, or the very costly repairs, I wouldn't be happy either. . . . and just because a person is playing a long time doesn't mean they know dick about working on a guitar. Hence my referral to the website. Use the string as a straight edge to check the bow, place your index finger of your left hand on the first fret, then the index finger of your right hand on the fret where the body meets the guitar. Then around the 6th/7th fret there should be a raise of about 1/32 to 1/64th inch. Also, anytime you tighten the truss, you are supposed to loosen it about a quarter/eighth turn before tightening at all.

Also, as I have yet to damage any guitar I have set up or worked on, it seems like I must know more about adjusting truss rods. . . . I google stuff before I try it, and I gave you the site that I learned from.

And again, I wasn't implying that you are ignorant, seems like you must have low self-esteem on that, I was just offering resources for your question.

As for your guitar, if it had that when you got it, Lemon. . . . that's the answer. . . . the Luthier(s) that worked on it obviously had little to no idea of what happened. . . .

And as before, I'm not being a prick simply stating the obviousness of the situation.

EDIT: Okay, at times I was a prick, and being made out to be a condescending prick turns me into one. . . sorry you chose to make me that.
Quote by paranoid joker

Metal, should kick you in the nuts, after you catch it messing around with your girlfriend.
and then make a sandwhich in your house and walk out.


Http://www.myspace.com/drowningiris
Last edited by notsee at Oct 29, 2008,
#8
Ouchie.

Sounds like your git. needs some TLC from someone who knows what they are doing. From the sounds of it, your truss rod is already at its limit in the neck cavity hence the cracks and bowing. Could be warped too. Either way, the last thing you need to do is tighten it anymore. Sound like you needs some crazy relief then adjust your bridge, saddles etc to get some decent action going again.

Truss adjustments should be made is small increments then left to set in so the neck can adjust to the changes. It doesnt happen as soon as you make the adjustment.

What kind of guitar is it? Or, when kind of neck is it? Set, through, bolt? If its bolt, no worries. yank it and replace it.

But from the drawing you provided its probably a set neck.

My condolences...

*ok I see what you got. Take it to someone and let them assess the situation, but DO NOT LET THEM DO ANYTHING till they give you the full overview.
Last edited by Axe Murderer at Oct 29, 2008,
#9
Well with that kiss of death on the guitar, or the very costly repairs, I wouldn't be happy either. . . . and just because a person is playing a long time doesn't mean they know dick about working on a guitar. Hence my referral to the website. Use the string as a straight edge to check the bow, place your index finger of your left hand on the first fret, then the index finger of your right hand on the fret where the body meets the guitar. Then around the 6th/7th fret there should be a raise of about 1/32 to 1/64th inch. Also, anytime you tighten the truss, you are supposed to loosen it about a quarter/eighth turn before tightening at all.

Also, as I have yet to damage any guitar I have set up or worked on, it seems like I must know more about adjusting truss rods. . . . I google stuff before I try it, and I gave you the site that I learned from.

And again, I wasn't implying that you are ignorant, seems like you must have low self-esteem on that, I was just offering resources for your question.

As for your guitar, if it had that when you got it, Lemon. . . . that's the answer. . . . the Luthier(s) that worked on it obviously had little to no idea of what happened. . . .

And as before, I'm not being a prick simply stating the obviousness of the situation.

EDIT: Okay, at times I was a prick, and being made out to be a condescending prick turns me into one. . . sorry you chose to make me that.


I think the situation is more complicated and less obvious then you think. I've done countless adjustments on different guitars and haven't had problems up until now. Just because you have never broken a guitar doesn't mean jack. And yes, experience does matter. Saying 30 years of experience doesn't mean anything is quite arrogant.

By the way, getting knowledge from google doesn't make you an expert.

If you actually read what that site says "Greatly overtightening the rod" can cause cracks.

The rod is very loose, and 1/8th is a very small increment. This is all common sense though, and this site is designed for beginners. Yes, a truss rod is NOT meant for adjusting action. A truss rod DOES have an effect on action though, and sometimes a combination of adjustments needs to be made.

That being said, if you let a guitar have too much relief for too long the neck will start to bow until it warps, and then you are really screwed.

The fact that it might be a lemon is already established, thats beyond the point. The question is - what do I do now? I'm hoping someone with more experience can answer the question, not just some shmoe who read about truss rods on a website and thinks he knows everything.

By the way, that picture is exaggerated. The crack isn't THAT wide, I just made it like that to get the general idea across.
Last edited by danleary at Oct 29, 2008,
#10
Why can't you just send it back and get another replacement? I'd be screaming for a new one asap! Sorry if you already said this, but how long ago did you purchase? Doesn't it have a lifetime warranty?
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#11
Quote by sabbathu
Why can't you just send it back and get another replacement? I'd be screaming for a new one asap! Sorry if you already said this, but how long ago did you purchase? Doesn't it have a lifetime warranty?


I've had it for almost a month. The thing is - it sounds beautiful. I already sent one back, this is the replacement. I might send it back, but I'd like some advice first. It took 3 months for them to send me a replacement, I'd hate to have to wait another 3 months.

I really don't think it's a kiss of death either, I've emailed a luthier and he told me it looks like an easy fix. This was before I discovered the cause though.
#12
It's a Gibson? Meaning its over £1000/$2000? Send the stupid thing back, I know I would, it doesn't matter if this is the replacement - it is obviously past being a cheap repair job so they should refund you.
Quote by danleary
I've had it for almost a month. The thing is - it sounds beautiful. I already sent one back, this is the replacement. I might send it back, but I'd like some advice first. It took 3 months for them to send me a replacement, I'd hate to have to wait another 3 months.

I really don't think it's a kiss of death either, I've emailed a luthier and he told me it looks like an easy fix. This was before I discovered the cause though.


If this is the second dud guitar you've recieved from them why get another? I'm sure theres many ES-335 style guitars out there in your price range that sound equally beautiful.
#13
Quote by xharass_natox
It's a Gibson? Meaning its over £1000/$2000? Send the stupid thing back, I know I would, it doesn't matter if this is the replacement - it is obviously past being a cheap repair job so they should refund you.


The problem is the first one I ordered sounded TERRIBLE, the fretboard had slices and tool marks all over it, a piece of the nitro finish was completely missing on the headstock, and the binding turned tomato red after a week. I sent it back, and you know what they told me? "Technically the warranty doesn't cover this, but we are gonna send you a replacement as good will."

This guitar sounds beautiful, I'm just concerned about this crack getting worse. If I can get it perma fixed then I will.
#14
Quote by xharass_natox
I'm sure theres many ES-335 style guitars out there in your price range that sound equally beautiful.


Because this guitar has satisfied me more then any other I've touched. My friend has a Yamaha knock off, it sounds good, but it doesn't compare. If this is my dream guitar why would I drop it for a different one?

Quote by Axe Murderer
Ouchie. From the sounds of it, your truss rod is already at its limit in the neck cavity.


This is impossible. It is a brand new guitar. The rod is also very loose and easy to turn, if it was at it's limit it would be tight and very hard to turn.
Last edited by danleary at Oct 29, 2008,