#1
What is the difference between C Lydian and E minor, my understanding is that the intervals are the same. I sort of understand the difference between Em and Gmaj (or at least how they are derived from one another).

Does this impact improvisation\phrasing is anyway, other than simple staying in key.
#2
They are two different scales, with different formulas, and uniquely different sounds.

Write them out, and you will see that the intervals are not the same. play them, and listen to the difference in how they sound.

what you have are 2 scales that are related (share the same notes), but sound different and would be applied in different situations.

if you only " sort of" understand the difference between G Major and E minor, you don't have nearly enough experience to be getting into the modes.
I would highly recommend coming back to them later when you are more prepared. getting into modes now would be like getting into algebra before you understand basic addition and subtraction. music theory is like math in that regard. You need to build from the most basic elements and work your way to the more complicated.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Oct 29, 2008,
#3
Ok I think I see why intervals are not the same, even though the notes are the same their relation to the tonic is not the same, does that make any sense? If so I am still unclear as to why one would chose one over the other in an improv situation.
#5
C Lydian revolves around the note C. E minor revolves around E.


If you were improvising over something in E minor, you would never use C lydian because it's for C and has nothing to do with it. They are only "relative" (they have the same notes in a different order).

If you run across a Cmaj7#11 chord, by all means use C Lydian.

If you run across an E minor chord, use E minor.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#7
So the chords help bring out the character of the scale\mode?

Do i need to alter my phrasing if the chord progression contains Cmaj7#11 rather than E minor?
#8
Quote by ixelion
So the chords help bring out the character of the scale\mode?

Do i need to alter my phrasing if the chord progression contains Cmaj7#11 rather than E minor?
Well when you're soloing, you generally want to match the intervals of the scale you are using with those of the chord you're playing over to get the same notes.

For instance: C lydian. Lydian's only difference from major is the #4 so using it over a major chord with a #4 (or #11 which is the same thing, just higher) would make sense, hence the Cmaj7#11.


Over a progression you usually just want to match up the notes. Say you have a ii V I in D. That gives you Em - Amaj - Dmaj

You know it revolves around D so you're using a D scale. All of the chords are diatonic (in D major) so you know D major scale would work.


Oh and if a chord progression in E minor had a Cmaj7#11, you wouldn't do anything different, it's still E minor. Solo with the E minor scale.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#9
Quote by ixelion
What is the difference between C Lydian and E minor, my understanding is that the intervals are the same. I sort of understand the difference between Em and Gmaj (or at least how they are derived from one another).

Does this impact improvisation\phrasing is anyway, other than simple staying in key.



C Lydian = E Aeolian (Relative Minor of G major) = G Ionian (Gmajor)

Each of these modes have the same notes, but they are grouped differently:

Lydian = 1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7

Aeolian = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7

Ionian = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

You can phrase on the interval that gives the mode its unique sound.
#10
Quote by metal4all
Solo with the E minor scale.

Just a question. Say someone is mindlessly soloing with no back track D E C G F A B notes... You would have no idea exactly what scale hes using?
#11
Quote by Ssargentslayer
Just a question. Say someone is mindlessly soloing with no back track D E C G F A B notes... You would have no idea exactly what scale hes using?

If he wasn't phrasing it to make a specific note the tonic, then indeed he could be using any of a number of scales, not least the chromatic scale.
#12
Quote by blue_strat
If he wasn't phrasing it to make a specific note the tonic, then indeed he could be using any of a number of scales, not least the chromatic scale.

Females play guitar too ya know. Yeah, I know they suck, unless you're Jennifer Batten.
#13
Quote by Ssargentslayer
Just a question. Say someone is mindlessly soloing with no back track D E C G F A B notes... You would have no idea exactly what scale hes using?


Although, The notes point toward C major.
#14
Quote by jsantos
Although, The notes point toward C major.

The last note in that list was B, so as the leading tone, yes it would.

From another view point, it's starting on D, so D Dorian.
#15
Quote by jsantos
Although, The notes point toward C major.

A minor? Any other relative modes?

Quote by mdc
Females play guitar too ya know. Yeah, I know they suck, unless you're Jennifer Batten.


#16
Quote by Ssargentslayer
A minor? Any other relative modes?

Yes dude, right there ^^
#17
Quote by mdc
Yes dude, right there ^^


hehe Have you applied Musashi's "book of five rings" into your guitar playing?
#18
Quote by mdc
Yes dude, right there ^^

Thats beside the point. I was just trying to put random natural notes to get my point across.
#19
Maybe I should actually contribute to this thread.

TS, you know that C Lydian and E Minor contain the same notes. That's where their relationship ends though.

If you want to play in C Lydian, the progression should resolve to a Cmaj7 chord. You can still play the exact same scale pattern (Eminor at the 12th fret for example), the only difference is that "home" won't be on E, it'll now be on C, or another consonant interval like G, which is a perfect 5th.

So to answer the following quote,

Quote by ixelion
Do i need to alter my phrasing if the chord progression contains Cmaj7#11 rather than E minor?

Yes, to resolve on a stable note, and hit a F# note occasionally to emphasize C Lydian.

Quote by Ssargentslayer
Thats beside the point. I was just trying to put random natural notes to get my point across.

Lol, ok.
Last edited by mdc at Oct 30, 2008,