#1
hey guys, i have a VHT pitbull 100/cl and ive been tweaking it for ages and i got an earcandy buzzbomb 2x12 thats still new but im almost certain the speakers are broken in already. altho i wouldnt really know cuz i have no experience with that kind of thing.

so my prolbem is that im having trouble EQing out a certain fizz im getting and im starting to wonder if its just normal cuz every amp i have played has had it and i just thought it was because of new speakers. now that i have my own amp head and cab (after a long period of waiting) and i feel the speakers are broken in (lots of loud playing :P) im wondering if this fizz im getting is just a normal thing.

now i know that adding too much treble frequencies can have a tendency to add a lot of fizz or a sizzling sound so i tried taking some of that out and its mostly good but it loses a lot of attack and often gets too warm. so im trying to fnd the middle ground and its really hard, i feel im getting close but is this top end sizzle or fizz really just a normal thing, or due to my bad EQing. or maybe its my amp? my cab? need new tubes? speakers arent fully broken in? someone enlighten me lol.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#2
You might change your sig for a start....

or whoever really helps you - put their name in front of that cab!
#3
If you just bought a new cab there is no possible way the speakers are already broken in.

That being said, it sounds like you're just using too much gain. Turn up the mids and turn down the presence if you have a presence control.
#4
if you can, crank your amp REALLY loud and play for like 15 or 20 minutes. That's supposed to be the fastest way to break in speakers. Otherwise, cut back on the gain and prescence on your amp, EQ more mids, and check to make sure how LOUD it's turned up. VHTs are by no means bad sounding amps, so you have to be doing something wrong with the EQ or not be turning it up loud enough. Also, did you buy the amp used/new? How old are the tubes? Old tubes can give you a fuzzy sound (which some people, Tom Morello for instance, enjoy).
#6
it takes months of cranking to REALLY break speakers in. if i read the hellatone speakers page right, i think they have them at a constant sine for about 4 weeks before selling them as "pre-broken"

the stiff sound may be contributing to your fizz, but that should still be able to be dialed out from your amp. like suggested above, chill out on the gain, and turn anything above the mids off for a start. After you get your bass and mids where you like them, very slowly add treble or presence.. as if it were a spice.. you don't really want much more than a few pinches.
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.
#7
Quote by RG_FANMAN
if you can, crank your amp REALLY loud and play for like 15 or 20 minutes. That's supposed to be the fastest way to break in speakers. Otherwise, cut back on the gain and prescence on your amp, EQ more mids, and check to make sure how LOUD it's turned up. VHTs are by no means bad sounding amps, so you have to be doing something wrong with the EQ or not be turning it up loud enough. Also, did you buy the amp used/new? How old are the tubes? Old tubes can give you a fuzzy sound (which some people, Tom Morello for instance, enjoy).



Try 40-50 hours.
#8
well actually i was using an old 1960 cab must be 8 years old min, and the speakers sound unbroken compared to my 15 yr old marshall combo. The fizzyness disappeared tonight!

These high gain amps are often mid heavy so dont feel obliged to put your mids to 10
Last edited by Tw8xy at Nov 1, 2008,
#9
alright my cab has green machines from earcandy. im certain not many people are going to have experience with them but it should be just about the same as any other speaker. its basically a vintage 30 without the mid spike.

the tubes were new when i bought it used. possible pre amp tubes are old now cuz only the power amp tubes were changed i believe. could it just be shoddy tubes?? mullard el34, and ruby 12ax7's. i highly doubt it and i seriously just think its my poor EQing

i am about to go turn down the presence and treble and tweak the mids and bass as suggested slowly adding the trebles back in. im sure thatll be my fix. i have cranked it pretty loud often and it still the same.

one question tho, is lowering the pre amp volume and cranking the power amp volume (master) still going to have the same effect? i.e: power amp distortion. or does it simply need to be loud for that type of sound. cuz i have done that and it was irritating to say the least but i didnt experience any distortion different than at lower volumes and i didnt have it quiet either but it can definitely have gotten louder. this was maxed out master volume with 3-4 o clock on preamp volume. i played on a clean sound, no added distortion. is something wrong or what? because i read SOOO much about this fabulous power amp distortion that gets added when u crank it. have yet to see it, any tips?
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#10
its your speakers, greenbacks have a certain high end sizzle with some amps, vht's really love p-50s

:edit: i see green machines my mistake.
Gear
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
Ibanez EX 470 (1991)

Peavey 6505 combo
Vox Valvetronix AD15VT
Danville 1X12 Cab
Kustom 12w tube

Dunlop Crybaby
DOD overdrive(YJM)
Boss Ns-2
PodXt
Dod 250 Overdrive
#11
I had that problem. It was the 16 khz freq. Dialed it out. Problem solved.
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#12
Quote by al112987
If you just bought a new cab there is no possible way the speakers are already broken in.

That being said, it sounds like you're just using too much gain. Turn up the mids and turn down the presence if you have a presence control.


I duno about breaking the cab in or not. But it does have the ear-mark of extra-gain written on it.
Quote by sargasm
There are no genres in metal that end with "core."
#14
well the EQing tips helped a bunch. just a lil more fine tunng and im good to go, but i think im there already. its just a matter of sounding good some days and not others now i think.the fizz is gone, thanks a lot guys.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#16
lol thats what they all say, but i cant right now and i have before and w/o proper EQing it sounds the same, fizzy. so that wasnt the issue, it was just my shoddy EQing lol. and i play loud most of the time anyways. but i got it mostly under control now. fizz is gone, just need to make it my own tone now is all i believe.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#17
Quote by al112987
Try 40-50 hours.


Really? Because I think somewhere on Avatar Speakers' website one of the questions is breaking in speakers, and they say it takes around 40 - 50 hours to break them in with normal use, but you can cut down on that time by a lot if you turn your amp up extremely loud (a lot louder than normal) and just play for like 20 or 30 minutes [forget the exact time, but it's no more than an hour or so]. I could be wrong. otherwise, I think one of their other suggestions is to take a stereo system, and when you leave your house, play it at max and just leave it looping so it's got constant sound to it.
#18
Quote by giternator
well the EQing tips helped a bunch. just a lil more fine tunng and im good to go, but i think im there already. its just a matter of sounding good some days and not others now i think.the fizz is gone, thanks a lot guys.
I would also do as you mentioned and play with the channel volume lower and crank the master volume. High gain amps that have their preamps pushed too hard can make for added noise and a thinner tone. Using more of the master gets that thick poweramp tone.
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#20
Quote by Van Noord
I would also do as you mentioned and play with the channel volume lower and crank the master volume. High gain amps that have their preamps pushed too hard can make for added noise and a thinner tone. Using more of the master gets that thick poweramp tone.


definitely ill try that too. the tone is mostly where i want it but i do notice that it is lacking a lot of thickness and that could be the culprit. i was just bent making it as loud as possible without moving any knobs but the master but i rarely go past half way without it being too loud for the neighbors and too irritating to stand close to. but ill give that a try.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#21
alright tried lowering the preamp and raising the master instead and havent noticed a lick of difference. is it suppose to be a subtle difference? cuz honestly i think the power amp tone everyone claims to love is simply a loud amp. loud just seems to sound better usually.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#22
Quote by giternator
alright tried lowering the preamp and raising the master instead and havent noticed a lick of difference. is it suppose to be a subtle difference? cuz honestly i think the power amp tone everyone claims to love is simply a loud amp. loud just seems to sound better usually.


I thought that was common knowledge?
Quote by sargasm
There are no genres in metal that end with "core."
#23
You might not be getting an saturation since that is a high gain head and the power section is probably designed not to distort.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#24
Quote by Kevin Saale
You might not be getting an saturation since that is a high gain head and the power section is probably designed not to distort.


best answer yet. thats kinda what i thought too. it just was designed to have infinite head room and never flub or distort. still, i would like to hear some power amp distortion some day at least lol. just cuz everyone raves about it.

what ev's...

i got the EQing down i think. i know im gonna be changing it a lot tho. that's a lesson for all of you. everytime ur amp is moved, changed, modified, put in different situations, ur gonna have to adjust that EQ! ie. band practice, carpeted room, huge auditorium, different volume levels, new tubes, different cab/guitar, etc etc. all call for different settings. its a rather frustrating thing -_-. i suppose thats what sound engineers are for eh?
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#25
That's just how it goes. Powertube saturation is cool for blues and classic rock, but it's definitely easy to over do. When I play metal on my f30 I turn the master down because it tends to tighten the amp up and makes the metal tone sound better overall.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#26
Quote by Kevin Saale
That's just how it goes. Powertube saturation is cool for blues and classic rock, but it's definitely easy to over do. When I play metal on my f30 I turn the master down because it tends to tighten the amp up and makes the metal tone sound better overall.


everyone take notes, this guys a genius!!! lol good advice man. i just still wanna mess with power amp dist . but alas, my amp is too metal lmao. oh well, just gonna have to deal with pounding out brutal riffs *sigh* woe is me -_-. lol.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#27
Quote by giternator
everyone take notes, this guys a genius!!! lol good advice man. i just still wanna mess with power amp dist . but alas, my amp is too metal lmao. oh well, just gonna have to deal with pounding out brutal riffs *sigh* woe is me -_-. lol.



Let's not go too far now
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#28
Quote by RG_FANMAN
Really? Because I think somewhere on Avatar Speakers' website one of the questions is breaking in speakers, and they say it takes around 40 - 50 hours to break them in with normal use, but you can cut down on that time by a lot if you turn your amp up extremely loud (a lot louder than normal) and just play for like 20 or 30 minutes [forget the exact time, but it's no more than an hour or so]. I could be wrong. otherwise, I think one of their other suggestions is to take a stereo system, and when you leave your house, play it at max and just leave it looping so it's got constant sound to it.


Nope, more like 40-50 hours of loud use.

By loud use I mean gig volumes. Playing for 20-30 minutes on a cranked amp will not do jack shit. Otherwise I'd have a very good set of broken in speakers already. And I'm talking low wattage 30 watt g12h30s here. They've probably got about 15-20 hours of cranked JTM45 (no other way to play the amp) through them and still have that shrill ice picky high end that's characteristic of a stiff speaker.

Avatar puts their Hellatone speakers on a stereo overnight blasting cranked bass heavy music into it and they're still not completely broken in, even Ted Weber's speakers which he puts on a variac for days (creates a very loud grinding noise) still needs user break in time to smooth out completely.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 2, 2008,
#29
You might try swaping out a few preamp tubes. Especially the ones that are in the input and first distortion stages. Every tube is different and swaping around different preamp tubes is a great way to lessen or increase certian frequencies, especially 650 hz and up. My cobra was very fizzy and I put two JJ tubes in V1 and V2 and that pulled out some of the really high hiss and fizz. JJ's are good to pull some brightness out of an amp.
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#30
ahhh too many factors. ill just start caring less about my tone and all my problems will disappear -_-. and im not too keen on this frequency talk. but i think the tubes are fine, but then again what do i know. this is my first tube amp.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#31
Quote by giternator
ahhh too many factors. ill just start caring less about my tone and all my problems will disappear -_-. and im not too keen on this frequency talk. but i think the tubes are fine, but then again what do i know. this is my first tube amp.


I wouldnt give up on it. Id put money on the tube swap thing. Buy 3 preamp tubes, one jj, one Tugsol, one electro harmonix. Try each one in the V1 position and you'll find what you like. Changing preamp tubes is nothing. Just pull one out and put the other in. Just make sure the amp is off when you do.
Framus Cobra
Marshall JCM 900
peavey 5150

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#32
interesting, i may try that sometime. i do think the preamp tubes need changing cuz when i drive em hard (just for the heck of it, not so much that i crave a ton of gain) they tend to break up nasty and fart a lot and there is a weird fluctuation in volume.....but thats only when i crank the preamp volume if i lower that below about 2 o clock and crank the master, that problem doesnt exist. so thats why i assume its the preamp tubes, not to mention those are still the stock ones and the power tubes are new. now im hoping thats just a sign of **** preamp tubes (going bad, w/e) and not a problem with the amp.

Now why only swap out the v1 position? is that the one u hear the most?? do the others simply not matter? if i find one i like, would it matter what other ones i put it in the other positions?

For those who are wondering. my EQ-ing problems are over, i have cranked bass heavy music throw my cab for a good while and i can tell they have mellowed out more and im good on that. still not fully broken in, but ill just keep cranking it and itll happen eventually.
Schecter C-1 classic
Takamine GS330S
Roland microcube FTW!
#33
Quote by al112987
Nope, more like 40-50 hours of loud use.

By loud use I mean gig volumes. Playing for 20-30 minutes on a cranked amp will not do jack shit. Otherwise I'd have a very good set of broken in speakers already. And I'm talking low wattage 30 watt g12h30s here. They've probably got about 15-20 hours of cranked JTM45 (no other way to play the amp) through them and still have that shrill ice picky high end that's characteristic of a stiff speaker.

Avatar puts their Hellatone speakers on a stereo overnight blasting cranked bass heavy music into it and they're still not completely broken in, even Ted Weber's speakers which he puts on a variac for days (creates a very loud grinding noise) still needs user break in time to smooth out completely.


Oh crap, you know what? I mixed up breaking in speakers with their Hellatone "breaking in" process. My bad.

And I can attest to the breaking in fact. I've had my Mesa since I believe May, and it's taken me until last week to finally get the speakers broken in perfectly and my EQ set up right. Granted, I play it rougly 3 - 4 hours a week (since it's not actually at MY house yet), and since it was towards the end of May I got it I've had roughly 16 - 20 weeks to break it in, and I've finally done so. I haven't played it extremely loud (1 actually, but I crank the channel Masters which pushes the power tubes to get a fatter sound, and even at 1 I can jam with another guitarist and a drummer). And the best sounding cab to me was an old (from the 80s I believe) Marshall JCM 800 1960 cab that had definitely seen it's share of use. I guess since the latter had been used so much and had more than enough time to be broken it in was great sounding.
#34
Quote by RG_FANMAN
Oh crap, you know what? I mixed up breaking in speakers with their Hellatone "breaking in" process. My bad.

And I can attest to the breaking in fact. I've had my Mesa since I believe May, and it's taken me until last week to finally get the speakers broken in perfectly and my EQ set up right. Granted, I play it rougly 3 - 4 hours a week (since it's not actually at MY house yet), and since it was towards the end of May I got it I've had roughly 16 - 20 weeks to break it in, and I've finally done so. I haven't played it extremely loud (1 actually, but I crank the channel Masters which pushes the power tubes to get a fatter sound, and even at 1 I can jam with another guitarist and a drummer). And the best sounding cab to me was an old (from the 80s I believe) Marshall JCM 800 1960 cab that had definitely seen it's share of use. I guess since the latter had been used so much and had more than enough time to be broken it in was great sounding.


That makes sense. It's worth noting (I read this on the Eminence website) speaker break in continues throughout the speakers life. It doesn't hit a point after awhile and stop completely, the cone will always be changing slightly and adding more of it's own flavor to the sound.

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Quote by sargasm
There are no genres in metal that end with "core."