#1
In this piece of music there is one measure of 6/8 and then one measure of 3/4 (and it just keeps repeating). Would you count it:

ONE two three FOUR five six / ONE two three?

And to me, it seems like it would be the same as one measure of 5/4. Am i correct in saying this? I'm not too sure.
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#3
A measure of 6/8 should be counted 'One, two, three, five, six' should it not?
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#4
It's just a piece in my band (as in concert school band, that is) called "Prarie Dances" by David R. Holsinger. But I doubt that helps.
Would you mind telling me how it could be counted to be in 6/4?
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#5
Quote by hothead69999
It's just a piece in my band (as in concert school band, that is) called "Prarie Dances" by David R. Holsinger. But I doubt that helps.
Would you mind telling me how it could be counted to be in 6/4?


It would make a heck of a lot more sense to make the entire thing either 6/8 or 3/4.
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#6
Not being able to see the music, we have no idea

Personally i would count that as two bars of 6/8 though...
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#7
1 and 2 and 3 and 1, 2, 3.
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#8
Quote by chimpinatux
Not being able to see the music, we have no idea

Personally i would count that as two bars of 6/8 though...


Here's what it sounds like if that helps at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFoKxn_lQAQ
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#9
Quote by Green_Jelly
1 and 2 and 3 and 1, 2, 3.


Thats what i was going to say. Sounds right to me.!
#10
It doesnt matter. They are both basically the same thing except in 6/8 the eight note gets the beat and in 3/4 the quarter note gets th beat....they both have the same number of notes per measure, they just feel different and are conducted differently.
#11
Quote by Weaver_2008
It doesnt matter. They are both basically the same thing except in 6/8 the eight note gets the beat and in 3/4 the quarter note gets th beat....they both have the same number of notes per measure, they just feel different and are conducted differently.


..And the 3/4 feels like triplets because it is after the 6/8? Or am I totally wrong. Sorry.
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#12
I thought 6/8 had two beats in a bar, like 1 2 3 4 5 6

So I guess you'd count a bit like this

1 and a 2 and a 1 and 2 and 3 and

And so on.
Last edited by sam i am at Nov 3, 2008,
#13
Quote by Dudeman5000
A measure of 6/8 should be counted 'One, two, three, five, six' should it not?


...four?

Easy mistake, mate.

I'd prolly count it 1 ee and 2 ee and 1, 2, 3.
#14
Quote by hothead69999
Would you mind telling me how it could be counted to be in 6/4?
You'd have 12 8th-notes over those two bars, and if you insist on writing it as one bar of x/4, then it would of course be 6/4 time.

Regardless, whoever wrote it with altering meters should be shot. There is absolutely no reason as far as I can see that you couldn't write it in all 6/8 or 3/4 depending on the feel.

Idiotic notation aside, FP has it right.
#15
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You'd have 12 8th-notes over those two bars, and if you insist on writing it as one bar of x/4, then it would of course be 6/4 time.

Regardless, whoever wrote it with altering meters should be shot. There is absolutely no reason as far as I can see that you couldn't write it in all 6/8 or 3/4 depending on the feel.

Idiotic notation aside, FP has it right.


I think it's creative, and different. What's wrong with creativity?
#16
Quote by GNRjungle87
What's wrong with creativity?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with creaticity, but one should not be creative to the point that it unnecessarlily confuses someone playing a piece of music. The idea of standard notation is to make it as easy as possible for the performer to read. This alternation between meters is confusing and thus, idiotic.
#17
Anyway, here's a little piece of the song in case you'd want to know anyway.

EDIT: The first line is the actual piece. The second line I just made to show it all in 3/4. So, I conclude that the line could either be in all 3/4 or all 6/8 and sound the same. Am I right?
Attachments:
prairiedances.zip
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You need to douse it in a 20/30/50 ratio of mustard/ketchup/horseradish and stroke it as fast as you can untill the mayonaise squirts out. Then consume.
Last edited by hothead69999 at Nov 3, 2008,
#18
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You'd have 12 8th-notes over those two bars, and if you insist on writing it as one bar of x/4, then it would of course be 6/4 time.

Regardless, whoever wrote it with altering meters should be shot. There is absolutely no reason as far as I can see that you couldn't write it in all 6/8 or 3/4 depending on the feel.

Idiotic notation aside, FP has it right.

That accents fall differently. My concert choir has a piece double notated 6/8 3/4 and it really does make a difference
#19
Quote by JakdOnCrack
That accents fall differently. My concert choir has a piece double notated 6/8 3/4 and it really does make a difference
I know the difference in sound. It's just idiotic to notate it with changing meters rather than picking one and making the minimal adjustment necessary to keep the meter the same throughout.
#21
Who wrote the music? Writing something in alternating 6/8 and 3/4 seems absolutely idiotic to me.


I've done it. I love alternating between simple and compound time signatures. It's so...disorienting.
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#22
Quote by Freepower
...four?

Easy mistake, mate.


His comment made me think of Monty Python.

"One... two... five!"


Anyways, I like gonzaw's method the best of what I've seen (also, I'll admit that I don't like the choice of syllables ), just because I think it's important to note that the eighth note length remains the same from 6/8 to 3/4, so you'll still want to subdivide the offbeats in 3/4.

Also, given the nature of the piece, I don't see anything particularly idiotic about the shifts from 6/8 to 3/4. The time signatures reflect the correct stresses in the two bars, so even with the switching, this method would make more sense to me as a young performer than trying to keep things in one time signature.

Of course, bgc is entitled to disagree. Can't please everyone
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#23
I have only ever seen this rhythm notated like this.

It's a very common type of rhythm in some styles (flamenco comes to mind but I'm not qualified to say much more about the style); it's often called just hemiola after the element of rhythmic contrast it's built from, 3 against 2.

How else would you convey the shifting pulse? accents? beaming? both are unclear.

I have noticed though that the physically newer the print music the more it tends to use what might seem like unnecessary time signature changes to eliminate ambiguity.

If you want a compromise though, you could notate it as 12/8 (3+3+2+2+2) and then make sure you beam it that way.
#24
Sorry to ask a question within a thread, but can someone explain to me what beaming is?
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#25
Quote by The_Sophist
Sorry to ask a question within a thread, but can someone explain to me what beaming is?
You know how 8th-notes have that bar between them? That's a beam. How you beam notes is now many notes you have connected by that beam up top.
#26
Tool does a lot of time sig changes. Good example- Schism changes like every measure almost.
#27
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I know the difference in sound. It's just idiotic to notate it with changing meters rather than picking one and making the minimal adjustment necessary to keep the meter the same throughout.

Mayhap it's pedantic, but I don't think it's idiotic.
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#28
Quote by Mayano
Mayhap it's pedantic, but I don't think it's idiotic.


Yeah, changing meters may very well better describe the music than straight 3/4 or 6/8.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#29
Quote by JakdOnCrack
That accents fall differently. My concert choir has a piece double notated 6/8 3/4 and it really does make a difference

I'm just testing myself here.

Would I be correct in saying that 6/8 is derived from a simple 2/4 with triplets? In 6/8, the accents fall on 1 and 4 yeah? 1 being strong and 4 being a lesser accent?
Last edited by mdc at Nov 4, 2008,
#30
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I think it's creative, and different. What's wrong with creativity?
The fact that when people deliberatly try to be creative, they usually sacrifice what actually makes said art sound, look, feel good. But in this case, nothing.
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Who wrote the music? Writing something in alternating 6/8 and 3/4 seems absolutely idiotic to me.
Whats so idiotic about it? 3/4 and 6/8 are completely different. 6/8 has a weaker beat (but stronger than the other beats) in the middle of the bar, but 3/4 doesnt.
#31
Quote by psychodelia
His comment made me think of Monty Python.

"One... two... five!"


Anyways, I like gonzaw's method the best of what I've seen (also, I'll admit that I don't like the choice of syllables ), just because I think it's important to note that the eighth note length remains the same from 6/8 to 3/4, so you'll still want to subdivide the offbeats in 3/4.

Also, given the nature of the piece, I don't see anything particularly idiotic about the shifts from 6/8 to 3/4. The time signatures reflect the correct stresses in the two bars, so even with the switching, this method would make more sense to me as a young performer than trying to keep things in one time signature.

Of course, bgc is entitled to disagree. Can't please everyone


Well, the syllables could be worse
#32
Quote by bangoodcharlote
There's absolutely nothing wrong with creaticity, but one should not be creative to the point that it unnecessarlily confuses someone playing a piece of music. The idea of standard notation is to make it as easy as possible for the performer to read. This alternation between meters is confusing and thus, idiotic.

The point of notation is to write down how you want it to be played, and this shouldn't be compromised for simplicity. If we assume that the 6/8 part was all quavers (q) and the 3/4 all crotchets (c) then in the written time it would be (^being the accented notes):


q q q q q q |c  c  c  |
^     ^      ^


However, put into two bars of 3/4 and it becomes:

q q q q q q |c  c  c  |
^            ^


Here the accenting is wrong because 3/4 only has the first beat accented. So how would you correct this, put an accent? Because then the second beat in the first bar it could turn out equally as strong as the first beat, whereas it should be less strong in 6/8.

The easiest way to communicate that you want the first bar accented in 6/8 and the second in 3/4 is to write the first bar in 6/8 and the second in 3/4. Otherwise the necessary adjustments would end up being more complicated than this.

I've actually played a classical piece that has the time signature 4/4+3/8. This essentially means the same as a bar of 4/4, a bar of 3/8, a bar of 4/4 ect. but this is much easier to writing that all out.

Most professional performers would have no trouble alternating between 6/8 and 3/4 so I don't see how it is idiotic to write it as such.
#33
I've played several classical guitar pieces that alternate like time signatures like that. Definitely not idiotic, uncommon, pedantic or anything similar.

I'd call it the most accurate representation of how the music should be played. As for T/S's question. If you have a bar of 6/8, count it like so. Then in the next bar, that's 3/4, count it like so. No problem at all.