#1
Sorry, another question that pertained to my jazz band auditioning... I pretty much failed the auditions for the higher-up Jazz band today (there's a lower-class one I'll go for instead this year), for the most part, due to one thing- losing place or freezing, and this pretty much happened during this part in the sheet I hadn't thought of:

Repeats. Not just repeats, since I could have probably done those, but multiple endings. Basically the sheet has a typical repeat aspect. With two repeat symbols in between a section, there's a line above the bars with a #1, which ends on the last repeat symbol. Then a line with a #2 goes starts on the last repeat symbol and continues on. That kind of typical repeat. I hope someone knows what I'm talking about, it's kinda hard to describe in words.

But the teacher pointed out how there were two endings to the music piece, and I didn't understand it. Could someone please understand it? I have the next audition (for the lower-class one) on Thursday and would like to at least make that one.

If I didn't explain it well, I'll try harder if you ask me to.
#2
Second time around the second time bars are NOT played AFTER the first time bars, but INSTEAD of them.
Hope that helps, or did you mean something else?
#3
Actually is sounds to me as if you missed a coda instruction or a "Fine" indication somewhere.
Every piece only has ONE ending.
#4
Quote by Shoj_
...Repeats. Not just repeats, since I could have probably done those, but multiple endings. Basically the sheet has a typical repeat aspect. With two repeat symbols in between a section, there's a line above the bars with a #1, which ends on the last repeat symbol. Then a line with a #2 goes starts on the last repeat symbol and continues on. That kind of typical repeat. I hope someone knows what I'm talking about, it's kinda hard to describe in words.
Play through to the first repeat sign (under the first ending indication). From there return to the begin-repeat sign (the one with the dots on the right) and play until you again reach the beginning of the first repeat sign. Jump immediately to the beginning of the second repeat sign (#2) and play to the end of the piece. Does your piece use the D.S. as well?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#5
Quote by gpb0216
Play through to the first repeat sign (under the first ending indication). From there return to the begin-repeat sign (the one with the dots on the right) and play until you again reach the beginning of the first repeat sign. Jump immediately to the beginning of the second repeat sign (#2) and play to the end of the piece. Does your piece use the D.S. as well?

Whoops... yes, sorry I forgot to include that. There is a "D.S. al Coda".
#6
Quote by Shoj_
Whoops... yes, sorry I forgot to include that. There is a "D.S. al Coda".


"Back to the sign and then (when instructed) to coda "
#7
Quote by Shoj_
Whoops... yes, sorry I forgot to include that. There is a "D.S. al Coda".
In that case...
  • play from the second repeat (#2) until you reach the D.S. al Coda ("del segno al coda", Italian for "from the sign to the tail")
  • jump immediately to the segno
  • Continue playing until you reach the first coda.
  • Jump to the matching coda near the end of the piece and play to the final bar.
  • If the D.S. takes you to a point prior to the first ending you'll typically skip the first ending and immediately take the second ending to the final coda. However, this is by no means set in stone. Usually, though, if the composer or director wants you to take the first repeat either the score or the director will let you know explicitly, e.g., "D.S. al Coda (with repeats)" or something similar.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#8
Quote by gpb0216
In that case...
  • play from the second repeat (#2) until you reach the D.S. al Coda ("del segno al coda", Italian for "from the sign to the tail")
  • jump immediately to the segno
  • Continue playing until you reach the first coda.
  • Jump to the matching coda near the end of the piece and play to the final bar.
  • If the D.S. takes you to a point prior to the first ending you'll typically skip the first ending and immediately take the second ending to the final coda. However, this is by no means set in stone. Usually, though, if the composer or director wants you to take the first repeat either the score or the director will let you know explicitly, e.g., "D.S. al Coda (with repeats)" or something similar.

I'm still sort of confused on the order.

In what you described, would you be playing through #1 and #2 until the D.S. al Coda, then after you get to the segno, then then matching codas, and then going to the end?

And would that be ending 1 or ending 2?
#9
Quote by Shoj_
In what you described, would you be playing through #1 and #2 until the D.S. al Coda, then after you get to the segno, then then matching codas, and then going to the end?
Yes - you've nailed it.
And would that be ending 1 or ending 2?
This depends on the score. Sometimes the directions will instruct you to take all repeats on the way to the second coda symbol. Most of the time, though, the D.S. will take you to a point somewhere following the second ending. In that case you simply play to the coda and out.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#10
Quote by Shoj_
I'm still sort of confused on the order.

In what you described, would you be playing through #1 and #2 until the D.S. al Coda, then after you get to the segno, then then matching codas, and then going to the end?

And would that be ending 1 or ending 2?


The DS instruction may be at end of 2nd time bar or sometime further along in the score. Regardless, when you reach it go back to the curly "S" sign, somewhere earlier in the piece. Start there and carry on, and if, before being instructed to jump to the coda, you then come to the 1st and 2nd time repeats again it is usual to play the 2nd time bar only. At some stage you will come uo to the coda symbol (a circle with a cross though it, sometimes with "to Coda" added beside it, be aware that you will have played through this section earlier ignoring this coda sign) but now due to the DS al coda instruction this sign has become the instruction to leave the score and jump to the coda, usually marked with the same symbol and having a label "coda". This is usually a short passage at the end of the score, that you play through to the double bar line ending.
#11
Quote by gpb0216
This depends on the score. Sometimes the directions will instruct you to take all repeats on the way to the second coda symbol. Most of the time, though, the D.S. will take you to a point somewhere following the second ending. In that case you simply play to the coda and out.

And if there's no directions anywhere, then usually it's the last part of what you said? Which in that case, following what you said would be the second ending? (And then the first ending would be... going to the last repeat, go to the first repeat and then as you continue just skip the #1?)

Thanks for all the help, though I'm still a little bit lost...
#13
Quote by R.Christie
I'm obviously wasting my breath.

I took into account what you said the first three posts, just quoted someone else; and then the last post gpb answered first.
#14
Quote by Shoj_
And if there's no directions anywhere, then usually it's the last part of what you said? Which in that case, following what you said would be the second ending? (And then the first ending would be... going to the last repeat, go to the first repeat and then as you continue just skip the #1?)

Thanks for all the help, though I'm still a little bit lost...
This is extremely quick and dirty, but take a look at this
  • Play to the first repeat.
  • Return to the beginning.
  • Play to the first ending.
  • Skip to the second ending.
  • Play to the D.S. al Coda.
  • Return to the segno.
  • Play to the first coda.
  • Skip to the second coda.
  • Play to the end.
.

If this doesn't answer your question, keep asking.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#15
Quote by gpb0216
This is extremely quick and dirty, but take a look at this
  • Play to the first repeat.
  • Return to the beginning.
  • Play to the first ending.
  • Skip to the second ending.
  • Play to the D.S. al Coda.
  • Return to the segno.
  • Play to the first coda.
  • Skip to the second coda.
  • Play to the end.
.

If this doesn't answer your question, keep asking.

So would this be the other ending? Or the same ending with a different arrangement of symbols?
#16
Quote by Shoj_
So would this be the other ending? Or the same ending with a different arrangement of symbols?
I don't understand your question.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#17
Pretty good explanation, gpb0216. That stuff can be confusing.

TS, make sure that, before you start playing, you've mapped all this stuff out and know how the flow of the piece goes. In the middle of sight reading the piece is a really bad time to have to work this out on the fly. I assume they give you at least a minute or two to examine the piece before playing. Otherwise, that's kind of cruel.

When gpb0216 says, in the last bullet, play to the end, this time he means the REAL end of the piece. Last bar. In his example, the one with the double measure bars, the second one being the thick one. In case that's what you mean.

Grep.
#18
Quote by Grep
Pretty good explanation, gpb0216. That stuff can be confusing.

TS, make sure that, before you start playing, you've mapped all this stuff out and know how the flow of the piece goes. In the middle of sight reading the piece is a really bad time to have to work this out on the fly. I assume they give you at least a minute or two to examine the piece before playing. Otherwise, that's kind of cruel.

When gpb0216 says, in the last bullet, play to the end, this time he means the REAL end of the piece. Last bar. In his example, the one with the double measure bars, the second one being the thick one. In case that's what you mean.

Grep.
Thank you, Grep. I apologize for not making that clear.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#19
Quote by gpb0216
Thank you, Grep. I apologize for not making that clear.

lol No apology needed! T'was well explained, complete with visual aid.
#20
They do give us a minute or two to get ready, thankfully. :P

I'm still not sure about one thing though. It's the thing about two endings. She tells us before we play whether it's the first or second ending, and doesn't indicate anything about the Coda or sengo.

The next audition's tomorrow... and I hope to know which ending would be what. The only ending I understand to this point would be the one I mentioned in the third post in this thread. Is that the second ending?

I wish I could scan the piece I have, it'd be much easier to explain... >.<
#21
Quote by Shoj_
I'm still not sure about one thing though. It's the thing about two endings. She tells us before we play whether it's the first or second ending, and doesn't indicate anything about the Coda or sengo.
If she tells you first ending, then you're going to be taking both endings before you're done. If she tells you second ending, you skip the first ending altogether and jump immediately to the second ending as soon as you reach the first ending.
The next audition's tomorrow... and I hope to know which ending would be what. The only ending I understand to this point would be the one I mentioned in the third post in this thread. Is that the second ending?
The second ending will almost always be labeled with the numeral "2", and the second time through the section you'll go immediately to the measure directly under the ending symbol as soon as you hit the first-ending symbol.

Are we there yet? If not, keep asking.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#22
Quote by Shoj_
They do give us a minute or two to get ready, thankfully. :P

I'm still not sure about one thing though. It's the thing about two endings. She tells us before we play whether it's the first or second ending, and doesn't indicate anything about the Coda or sengo.

The next audition's tomorrow... and I hope to know which ending would be what. The only ending I understand to this point would be the one I mentioned in the third post in this thread. Is that the second ending?

I wish I could scan the piece I have, it'd be much easier to explain... >.<

She is talking about the "endings" to the repeated section. To have different endings it has to be played more than once.
Read my first post again. The 2nd time bar will not have a repeat back to the same point as the first time bar directed you to (or there would be no point to it). It will either have a DC (back to start) or DS (back to the sign) or a coda indication (go to coda -unlikely) or will just carry on to the following bars.
Last edited by R.Christie at Nov 5, 2008,
#23
Quote by gpb0216
If she tells you first ending, then you're going to be taking both endings before you're done. If she tells you second ending, you skip the first ending altogether and jump immediately to the second ending as soon as you reach the first ending.
The second ending will almost always be labeled with the numeral "2", and the second time through the section you'll go immediately to the measure directly under the ending symbol as soon as you hit the first-ending symbol.

Are we there yet? If not, keep asking.

Skip the first ending... is that were there's the #1 with the line above the staff (which ends at the last repeat sign?

And the numeral "2", are you talking about the #2 above the staff, that starts on the last repeat sign?

I feel like I'm too stupid to understand this or something...

*Will read R.Christie's post*
#24
Quote by Shoj_
Skip the first ending... is that were there's the #1 with the line above the staff (which ends at the last repeat sign?
Yes. When you reach the bar line above which is the front edge of the bracket with the #1 above it go immediately to the bar line above which is the front edge of the bracket with the #2 above it
And the numeral "2", are you talking about the #2 above the staff, that starts on the last repeat sign?
Yes, but it's less confusing to refer to this repeat as the end repeat sign. You can probably guess that its matching repeat, the one with the dots on the right, is many times called the begin repeat sign.
I feel like I'm too stupid to understand this or something...
Being stupid and being ignorant are two very, very different things. You are simply ignorant right now about performance directions in a musical score, in the same way that I am ignorant about orbital physics or optics. The difference here is that you're working to overcome your ignorance, while I'm content to let the physics and optics slide.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
Last edited by gpb0216 at Nov 5, 2008,
#25
Just to see if I'm understanding this, I'll try to put what I've learned here so far- please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere:

In ending 1, I'm essentially playing the whole piece start to finish, except when I reach "D.S. al Coda", then go to the Segno, get to the matching Codas, then continue to the end.

In ending 2, I'm pretty much doing ending 1 except I'm ignoring the "#1" section.

And either way, I'm doing the D.S. al Coda and don't ever go from the end repeat back to begin repeat? I hope I have it right now...
#26
Quote by Shoj_
Just to see if I'm understanding this, I'll try to put what I've learned here so far- please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere:

In ending 1, I'm essentially playing the whole piece start to finish, except when I reach "D.S. al Coda", then go to the Segno, get to the matching Codas, then continue to the end.

In ending 2, I'm pretty much doing ending 1 except I'm ignoring the "#1" section.

And either way, I'm doing the D.S. al Coda and don't ever go from the end repeat back to begin repeat?
I'm confused by your terms "ending 1" and "ending 2". Having said that, your last statement is incorrect. You do indeed go from the end repeat to the begin repeat (or the beginning of the piece if there is no begin repeat) if you take ending #1. You skip the end repeat only if you're instructed to take the second ending (ending #2) before you begin playing.

Is there any chance the instructor / director would sit down with you for two minutes to explain this visually?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.