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#1
Later at night

It came down to the bottom of a wine bottle,
cheap bum wine shit,
paid dimes out of my pockets to get a bearded man to buy it
he drank half of it with me
I took the rest home and stored it in a minifridge I keep under my bed.
(minifridge broke with colored neon turning black on my hands
when I tried to clean it last summer, florescent cracked in two
cut my knee just to show my dead dad that I aint scared of nothing)

You should have seen the happy fuckers over here
when Barack Obama won the election
the same fuckers who we all have nighmares about in elementary school
the ones we’re scared of seeing us naked, or pulling our pants
all the way down to the depths of smooth tile
or cutting our hair after they’ve slapped the color out of our face
with a spit-covered hand.
You should have seen them throw their hats in the air
hug and handle one another’s bodies like lovers torn apart for years
stomping and cheering when the countdown clock began
and ended, chanted “yes we can, change for now, o-ba-ma.”
I heard one whisper in a Spanish accent, that he was blessed
to have voted today, crossing his chest for Jesus
I can guarentee you Jesus never got this when he was alive.

The new messiah? Maybe,
the tears in another kids eyes said just that, blind faith?
Maybe, a new kind of love was coming, is coming,
maybe that night was the shift from the old world to the new,
the colonized to the free, the moon we’ve walked on
for years, looking for black holes, back to the earth
and back to knowing the movement of the sea
better than the shifts between seasons of Friends.
I doubt it though, because I know
that I’m the only messiah that we need,
the only self-absorbed sea urchin to know his fate so well
he could write a book about it, and shook about it
or decades before death.

My friend, a girl named Monica, wanted to be touched so bad
when the blue words loaded on her computer screen,
a man was dead, again, in the slums of her home town,
her mom had brought the guy over for dinner some night
and Monica remembers being scared, because he was big, and black
and had too many tattoos that stretched too many places to be
“anything but an atlas” she told her boyfriend later.
(He left her for a black girl with a whole new world to offer)
I couldn’t get close to her stunned shell, arms terrified me like butterfly-
knives, if they touched they would make such a terrible sound
of metal against metal. “Anything I say to you will hurt you
and anything I say to me will kill, and anything I am is the opposite of a savior
and if anyone knew what I said to myself late at night, knew my behavior
they would never ever worship me.” But since they don’t
never ever question me, I can’t argue well but hell, if you need someone to believe in,
some jester to laugh on, some leper to kiss to spread a disease
a single illness of hopelessness, I’m your man.
I left her with that thought in my head, found her three years later in the paper,
got pregnant and died in the back-roads of DC,
God didn’t saver her obviously, neither did Obama, neither did I for that matter,
but best not look to the past, better to look to the future.

Gas prices are rising, if the war ends, cannons will still fire,
shooting stars are still falling, wishes still go unanswered,
I've still never fucked a muslim girl and there’s still
an unmistakable mystique in the way they way their hair.
New presidents don’t change my desire to rip open clothing,
do whats best for the world, make love to flesh, and tear building blocks apart,
do whats best for myself, make love to all flesh, be the Whitman
to the world, spread my seed, show my hand, take the truth and give them
a bible (an old high-school poetry anthology) for them to hold close,
at least at most, they’ll read it one day, when the president is shot
and they have nothing left to lose but to rot with my message,
as follows, as precedes, the truth, the absolute truth:


it came down to the bottom of a wine bottle,
standing from the top of the sixth floor balcony of my old college dorm
on the air in between the railing and the brick wall of my aparment.
the cars on the street below were bowing to me, I remember,
the worlds above me were coming through my head
coming together, whispering in a shitty angelic voice:
“you fucking prophet, what have you done with your life
there’s a damn black man as president, the streamers line the street,
and you, with a pen to write but no will to write it,
put it down, put the world down, pull down the sky
crush the mountains, be the messiah, be the countess and rule
your world, know your world, know every crevasse of your limitless lovers
and touch them completely…
and ended, chanted, “yes we can, change for now, o-ba-ma.”

the bottle, but no bones, made the second shot heard round the world.
#2
Oh. My. God. I have never, ever read anything this good. Ever.


Okay, now that I've got that out of my system, can i just say that there is nothing i can crit, so i'm going to be short, sharp and shiny. This was perfect because you took a big event, and you made it seem trivial. This sprawling landscape of personal trifes and deep emotions captivated mef rom start to finish. I started reading this thinking it was going one way, then you came and swept me on a magical rollercoaster ride that I didn't want to end. Well done, though i fear you amy offend some people with this But **** them, hopefully everyone will recognise this as a brilliant pose and not give a shit about whether it offends there sensibilities or not. Yeah, rambilng and long winded i know. Anyway, well done (again) and please keep writing more like this. The last line was pure class.
#3
I must say that was pretty damn good.

There are flaws, of course, but I highly doubt you should change anything.

So I'll just say ; great job my friend.
#4
this was good... i found it a little depressing but i liked it. my take on it anyway. it seemed liek you were talking about the inevitability of the world. how even while we try to change it we're never going to achieve our goal.

i could be completely wrong but thats what i saw lol
poetry analysis is not my thing.

crit mine?
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=993100
#5



This may be the best piece I've ever read on UG. I'm going to have to read it for a seventh time to find out.
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#7
something more structured: there are spelling and punctuation problems, but sort them and this will be pure brilliance.
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#9
I'm a believer in not tampering with things. I know you and I, Katherine don't have that in common, and a lot of people would agree with you here, but I don't. You change it, you change it. I've said that before but it's just the way I feel.
I don't like the idea of altering something I love. I loved this as it was. I may love it more if it was perfected, but it would be different. It's like marrying a girl who you are in love with and are quite happy with and predict you will be for years to come. Why change that, just because you could have another one better. Yes, it is quite possible to find an alternative that would suit your needs and desires more aptly, but it feels so detached and cold to do that - referring to the poem again, not marriage?
#10
I agree completely with the sycophantic nature of the first few posts you got on this... there is so much here that's so ****ing spectacular. I was going to try to write something on my thoughts about the new president but I don't see a point anymore because it won't be as good as this haha.

I mean as a single poem this might not work right now, but I was just so wowed at quite a bit of what you threw out there that I'm not concerned with that. nearly every stanza of this would make an excellent poem on its own, and together it's just too much for my little mind to comprehend.

you should be absolutely proud of this, as I feel it's probably the most impressive piece of writing I've ever read from you.
#11
I don't think that changing the spelling on a couple of words so that they're right is really massively altering a piece, Mr. Goldfish.
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#14
I might have to delete my response to you in the free post thread.
マリ「しあわっせはーあるいってこないだーからあるいってゆっくんだねーん 
いっちにっちいっぽみーかでさんぽ
 さーんぽすすんでにっほさっがるー 
じーんせいはっわんつー!ぱんち・・・


"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear." - from Tao Te Ching

#15
Eh, it's a for-the-moment piece where I guess you got your current sentiments across.

It wouldn't really interest me at all in a few more weeks, as nothing universal really came out of it. And it reeks of that problem that you and possibly I do too of writing like you've got twice as many years of life under your belt than you actually do.

Kiind of lacked in the poetics department for me to. Read like reading out a contract. Dull, you didn't really do enough with language to engage me and want to read on.

I think you could use your emotions here and produce a far more focused piece that will resonate for a longer time than this, and get some semblance of phonetic excitement. Reading this aloud is a chore.

And hey Dylan
#16
lets do this real quick

Quote by Jammydude44
Eh, it's a for-the-moment piece where I guess you got your current sentiments across.
agree

It wouldn't really interest me at all in a few more weeks, as nothing universal really came out of it.
Completely disagree. the point was that it was universal. does a piece have to be "universal" to hold your interest for more than a few days? really? I think we must be getting our definitions crossed or something here because as of now I am inclined to think this statement is full of complete shit on all counts

And it reeks of that problem that you and possibly I do too of writing like you've got twice as many years of life under your belt than you actually do.
this is one of the most interesting ideas any of us have ever raised in a thread. It has to do with the subjectivity of the audience and how much they will like you if you write "above" your current age or social strata (would it be okay if I wrote a poem about being black or poor and make up a lifestyle? could it still be impactful knowing my race and socio-economic background? Again, interesting point that I'll keep thinking about and would be glad to discuss sometime.

Kiind of lacked in the poetics department for me to.
Disagree, there were definitely some semblance of rhythm and rhyme places in there. agree to disagree then... on what your opinion is I guess
Read like reading out a contract.
Agree completely. A poetic contract.
Dull, you didn't really do enough with language to engage me and want to read on.
I can see that. Agree.

I think you could use your emotions here and produce a far more focused piece that will resonate for a longer time than this, and get some semblance of phonetic excitement. Reading this aloud is a chore.agree, but that's like saying you could learn better if you studied harder, took more notes, and learned better. I just don't know how to do it

And hey Dylan


Hey Jamie!

oh, and for the record, I dont really like this piece, I think some of the imagery is really cool and some of the ideas are awesome but on the whole I am not an explicit fan. It's not a poem, it's not a complete idea, not really. I might revise to make it good.

Oh, and for the second record, Jamie, if you had posted this, I would have tore into this so hard you would be sore for days
---

that said, thank you guys so much for your support and kind words, it's inspiring to hear that people actually read and sometimes like what I write, specially from some of you who I respect as very good and more-than-respectable writers (/people)

#17
this is quite substantially original. its quite amazing actually
www.freewebs.com/silentproject
#18
I'm gonna be concise and sum this up in two words: holy shit.
Quote by Arthur Curry
it's official, vintage x metal is the saving grace of this board and/or the antichrist




e-married to
theguitarist
minterman22
tateandlyle
& alaskan_ninja

#19
I liked it. A lot. I think you did ramble on a bit during the middle of the piece and I found myself skipping ahead to the next paragraph and having to force myself to go abck and re-read what i'd skipped so as not to lose the ideas your were getting across.

The second verse was brilliant. However, I hope you were only generalising the Obama supporters you saw and not projecting an entire image of Obama supporters like it appeared you did.

“you ****ing prophet, what have you done with your life
there’s a damn black man as president, the streamers line the street,
and you, with a pen to write but no will to write it,
put it down, put the world down, pull down the sky
crush the mountains, be the messiah, be the countess and rule
your world, know your world, know every crevasse of your limitless lovers
and touch them completely…


If that is not the biggest "**** you" to a poet ever, I don't know what is. well done.
Need Singing Advice?; Read the first page then ask questions.

Quote by punkman_123
Damn Auals, you're messed up. :P


Quote by ZanasCross
This just reminded me of the time that my brother in law texted his mom on the night after his wedding. All it said was "Consummated."
#20
I am assuming this is going to be a song. I hope that this is true.
If not, it is a good poem that I would edit and then skip the rest of this post.

There are a few things to consider if this is a song lyric. 1st, make sure that this will fit into a reasonable time at the tempo you choose. I agree that there is a lot here that is good and a little extra "stuff" that can be edited out to make a more pure emotional appeal.
Second, it will take work (as it always does) to put this to music. You might have trouble getting this to flow as a song. If this is a problem, I would suggest shortening some of the longer lines and maybe working for a few partial rhymes.

I hope this was useful,
-me
#21
This is better than your normal drivel .

Still didn't hold my attention all the way through, had to go back and re-read about a dozen times to make it through it all. I'm with Jamie (dear lord, I can't believe it); specifically here: "I think you could use your emotions here and produce a far more focused piece that will resonate for a longer time than this."

This was, well... fantastic for what it was... but at the end of the day it lacked anything that really makes it engage me beyond circumstances and looking through your eyes for a few minutes. I didn't care that I was looking through your eyes though. As much as you say you can't feel anything through my pieces... I feel the same through this. I just don't find a connection in your words.

*shrug*
#22
Eh... I'm actually quite surprised at the positive responses for this, which is, admittedly, the only reason I'm posting.

It's ok. It's definitely written in the wrong format. There's nothing that resembles poetry in, almost, any of the lines, and the imagery is fair at best since it feels utterly forced most of the time. You struck a few good notes with it, but in such a long piece I didn't expect you to miss on every point anyway. What I mean is, this is prose. The line breaks felt so fake I wanted to scream. It's like you just hit "enter" whenever your finger slipped.

But that's just my opinion about how you wrote it. The what... well, that was just a horrible read. I don't know if it's because I'm not a guy, or because I'm not as young as you are, or any other condition, but I definitely found this hard to relate to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a political science major and if there's anything I know a lot about is the importance of this event in American political history and history in general, but obviously you meant this to go beyond that, to something more encompassing and grand. And I don't think you did it.

I don't know Dylan, it was the most self-absorbed piece of writing I have seen in a while and I know that it's you and it's how you write and you have your own (not-so-)little world of thought and... Well I just thought that this was unbearable. Damn, I feel really harsh saying it, but this was a very misanthropic read and it was full of self importance. I know you were trying to evoke certain feelings and images that we all think and we all feel, but as I read more I felt like I was reading something that the drunk person in the street corner mumbles in order to get attention.

I hated it. It felt fake, it felt like you were painting a moment in life without ever living what life is and I felt cheated out of honesty and soul.

Sorry, I know this is probably not helpful and not constructive in the slightest, but I was really amazed at the responses. You've written much better than this.
This is not a pipe
#23
balance:
stability produced by even distribution of weight on each side of the vertical axis b: equipoise between contrasting, opposing, or interacting elements c: equality between the totals of the two sides of an account

inevitable:
incapable of being avoided or evade


no point to defend myself. thanks for reading
#24
^

i think you can guess what i'm going to say.

i'm going to disagree with everyone. as was entirely predictable, jamie and carmel saw the stream of "oh my god!" praises and felt it necessary to leap in and hate this. i'm fairly sure that both of them would of scanned the comments before reading and would essentially have hated it either way.

this has incredible potential. the line-breaks don't feel fake in any sense. they are entirely necessary i.e. this wouldn't work whatsoever in prose form. the inconsistency of direct subject would make it almost impossible to maintain someone's interest without the suggested allusion that line breaks bring (suggesting, in themselves, the piece as a poem - often it's said by men greyer than i that breaks in line are the only real consistency in poetry).

there are parts that need to be revised for a variety of reasons. i may come back to this if you don't get a particularly insightful line-by-line crit. though it's a shame you don't have msn or something.

the descriptions are typically 'you', though what i found really striking about this piece was the contrast between the authentic beat feel and the contemporary topic. i may be wrong, but this could be the first time that you've really written in detail about a contemporary event. it worked so beautifully. i felt quite touched, and the use of repetition at the end was both predictable and spine-tinglingly gorgeous.

you write like i imagine i would write if i were american. and a far better writer.
#25
Quote by skagitup
as was entirely predictable, jamie and carmel saw the stream of "oh my god!" praises and felt it necessary to leap in and hate this.


As I said, the reason I posted was because I saw everyone liked it and thought Dylan could do with a point of view of someone that didn't really enjoy it over another praising post.

I can state my own reasons for why I post, Alex. No need for you to invent ones.


Sorry, Dylan, don't mean to intrude on your thread but Alex seems to be on the path of insulting the motives of anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion as he does.
This is not a pipe
#26
Quote by carmel_l
As I said, the reason I posted was because I saw everyone liked it and thought Dylan could do with a point of view of someone that didn't really enjoy it over another praising post.

I can state my own reasons for why I post, Alex. No need for you to invent ones.


Sorry, Dylan, don't mean to intrude on your thread but Alex seems to be on the path of insulting the motives of anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion as he does.


+1.

I remember why I left.
#28
^why at me mathieu?

oh, and I really didnt mean to sound snarky in my last post to you guys, really, I agree with jamie, Zick, and Carmel's opinion on this piece moreso than the rest (though thats really here nor there because I more than greatly appreciate anything you guys have to say )

I follow the rule that Carmel is implementing here, that is, if the author is hearing a consensus that you strongly disagree with and therefore believe the author is getting a warped view of the truth then I post and give a negative or positive crit as the case may be. I do this whenever Zick or Jamie get praise just for being Zick and Jamie and get praise for throwing out silly work that does not at all represent their talents. I do not want them to get the wrong idea about the poem in question when I strongly disagree with the positive consensus and so I respond in a negative way to attempt to balance out the viewpoints. (this last statement is not intended to draw a parallel to how anyone has done anything in this thread)

the little inevitable joke was just that I knew Jamie, Zick, Carmel, or SYK (one of those four at least) would come in and hate this, and rightfully so, none of them like it when I post shit like this.

There's no problem here, just some people feel some way, some others feel strongly another, some others think I'm a nihilist, and some others think this was TL and DR. Thank you all for your comments and support, one way or another, you know that I appreciate it and you know how helpful it is, again, one way or another.

Just to reiterate:
thank you

#30
hate it when really good stuff makes me cream my pants, you sir, have just won at life

Obama salutes you
#31
Dylan, can I send you something to critique in PM? Cause you never read my PMs so I don't want to type it up and let it go to waste.
This is not a pipe
#33
Quote by carmel_l
As I said, the reason I posted was because I saw everyone liked it and thought Dylan could do with a point of view of someone that didn't really enjoy it over another praising post.

I can state my own reasons for why I post, Alex. No need for you to invent ones.


Sorry, Dylan, don't mean to intrude on your thread but Alex seems to be on the path of insulting the motives of anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion as he does.
heyyyy back up. i just thought some of what you said was overly harsh. like suggesting that the line-breaks were so forced that you felt his "finger slipped" whenever one appeared. i can't see any truth in that. it's one thing offering an alternative opinion, another entirely to say that you "hate" something. my point is that i think it very unlikely you would of said you hated it if it was without any comments.
#34
Not what you said, Alex. What you said was what I quoted. I openly admitted to only posting because I thought a different view than the majority of posters offered would be helpful.

You took what I said and decided to make it seem as if my motives were anything but to provide Dylan with another point of view on his piece. You decided you know better why I was posting and the "as was entirely predictable" was just condescending and arrogant.

In any case, to make this post a bit more productive towards the piece and make you (Alex) see beyond the "I hate" and see what I actually said:

I already stated I thought this read more like prose to me, thus the line breaks would have felt wrong in any case. The "finger slipped" comment was meant to emphasise my sentiments, I obviously don't actually think every line break was created that way. And as mentioned before, there were parts that worked wonderfully, but because this is such a long piece it could have just been a stroke of luck, since there were a lot of places it didn't work. I could have given examples, yes, but I had a bit of faith in Dylan to get what I meant, since he's very critical of his own writing as it is and I trusted him to take my critique as it was, MY OPINION. I feel like I'm repeating myself, but then again, some people just see someone say they didn't like what they did and think they know their motives.

You can say what you want and disagree with me always, Alex. Just don't speak for me or my motives. It's plain rude.

On another note, don't make me quote all the times you "hated" pieces, and don't make me lecture you about my right to hate something and to say it if I actually did. I backed up what I said, unlike some of your posts that you throw around.
This is not a pipe
#35
Okay, this is getting blown way out of proportion here, people. There is no reason to start a full scale argument here, carry it out in private. Only post if you got something to add, this stupid fighting is annoying me now. After re-reading your piece a couple of times, i can see were everyone is coming from, but i still enjoy it. I think Carmel does have a valid point about the line breaks though. I'd love to see this re-written as prose, it may make the flow easier, and hell, it might even be a better piece. Alex, don't be petty, it doesn't be come you. Now, can we all stop squabbling like little children and get backing to critting the work, which is what we're supposed to be doing in the first place?

EDIT: Sorry lecture and rant, i don't want to come off as pretentious (though I probably will), but it really was bugging me.
Last edited by kdownes at Nov 7, 2008,
#36
Quote by carmel_l
Not what you said, Alex. What you said was what I quoted. I openly admitted to only posting because I thought a different view than the majority of posters offered would be helpful...

On another note, don't make me quote all the times you "hated" pieces, and don't make me lecture you about my right to hate something and to say it if I actually did. I backed up what I said, unlike some of your posts that you throw around.
you don't appear to be getting at what i meant. it's not your right to hate something, your lack of backing up what you said or whether or not you helped, or intended to help dylan that i'm questioning. of course you intended to help dylan, why else would you post?

all i said was that i predicted that you'd say you hated it. i'm sorry if you don't agree or if you find that condescending, but i knew it was coming the minute i read the first dozen posts (if you actually read my post i don't think it's condescending at all - i noted that you and jamie "found it necessary" to hate it... i personally think that suggests a genuine intention to balance dylan's mindset and offer varied opinion, but whatever. i'd put money on the fact that it was that laughing smiley at dylan above it that made my words appear facetious/arrogant. what i was really saying is just that i thought you and jamie would come and disagree). and that's not even what i have a problem with. i don't care what you hate. my problem lies in the fact that i don't believe you. i don't believe that you hate it, because there are some great lines here. i agree that you may not particularly like it in comparison with some of dylan's other work, but i don't believe for one second that you hate it. i think you said that to emphasise your points, and i'd say that's wrong. hate is a dirty word. you can say that i don't back shit up as much as you want, but when i say i hate something, i really hate it.

and if you do hate it, fine. i'm extremely sorry. next time i'll just blow myself up before i question anyone.

and kdownes: dylan isn't the type of guy who gets irritated at people debating in his threads. he likes it. he's extremely kinky.
Last edited by skagitup at Nov 7, 2008,
#37
Quote by skagitup
and if you do hate it, fine. i'm extremely sorry. next time i'll just blow myself up before i question anyone.


Thanks. Do that. Finally I'm allowed to have my own opinion.
This is not a pipe
#38
Originally posted by skagitup
and kdownes: dylan isn't the type of guy who gets irritated at people debating in his threads. he likes it. he's extremely kinky.


Haha, fine then, you guys just debate away. i'll jsut say that i think you're both being petty and stupid. Alex, it's fine to state your opinoin, but you did come across as incredibly condescending and rude. Carmel, I think you've taken this a bit too personally. I can see why it would anger you (or whatever) but thats no reason to launch into a massive attack. Now are you both finished, or do I have to send you to your rooms? (my god, why did I just say that) You're both entitled to your opinoins, and you've both expresed them, so just leave it at that
#39
I've not taken it personally at all, I just saw Alex's comments regarding Jamie and myself as pure pettiness. It had nothing to do with the piece. I just like to be able to comment on pieces without anyone telling me (and others) why they think I, or others, are posting. It has nothing to do with the piece and as a mod of this forum I find it important to make everyone feel comfortable about posting; Jamie, myself and anyone else.

Now, if you want to answer me, you can do that in the community thread.
This is not a pipe
#40
i take back what i said about being sorry. that was dishonest. quite contrarily, if you are going to continue being quite as ridiculous i take pride in the fact that i have offended you.

thanks.
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