#1
So I am getting into modes and aside from their placement on the neck for say major scales. If I wanted to play mixolydian mode over G how would I do that? http://gosk.com/scales/mixolydian-scale-for-guitar.php shows a mixolydian scale layed out over the neck of the guitar in its (shapes) but would I play it with the root note being G if I wanted to play it over G? It said doing that would give it a (mixolydian sound). but someone might say to play it over D mixolydian cause tahts where it is for major scale... but wouldnt G mixolydian work also?

So if I used G as the root for the mixolydian scale would the first box look like this?

|x|-|o|-|
|x|-|x|-|
|-|x|-|-|
|-|x|x|-|
|-|x|x|-|-
|x|-|o|-|-


a little help would be appreciated
#2
If you want to play G mixolydian you need a tonal center of G, not D. You are free to use the notes GABCDEF anywhere on the fretboard, in any order.
I suggest that you ignore modes for now. They will become clear once you familiarize yourself with the theory behind the major scale.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#3
I know I need to have a tonal center of G, but somepeople would suggest I play it from a different mixolydian tonal center cause I want to play over G.... I am basically asking if G mixolydian would work on G.

What can get confusing for me is that someone might suggest using G major scale and stealing the mixolydian box from that which would have a different tonal center then and wouldnt be G mixolydian but something else (idk if D was right one for G major just pulled off top of my head)
#4
As I said, if you want to play G mixolydian, you need a tonal center of G. Modes are not boxes. The fact that you happen to be playing at a particular spot on the fretboard does not mean you are playing modally. If you have a tonal center of G and want to play mixolydian, you would use G mixolydian.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#5
Wait, are you referring to the example I gave now? cause taht has a tonal center of G, box might not have been the right term. but it is how I relate to it. I guess position could be the better term... would that be though how it would look like from first position on the site I gave?
#6
Quote by ehlert99
Wait, are you referring to the example I gave now?


I'm referring to any use of any mode.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#7
Quote by Archeo Avis
If you want to play G mixolydian you need a tonal center of G, not D. You are free to use the notes GABCDEF anywhere on the fretboard, in any order.
I suggest that you ignore modes for now. They will become clear once you familiarize yourself with the theory behind the major scale.

im not trying to start stuff, but youve said that to me before.
do you think everyone is stupid and doesnt know the major scale?
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#8
Quote by ehlert99
So I am getting into modes and aside from their placement on the neck for say major scales. If I wanted to play mixolydian mode over G how would I do that? http://gosk.com/scales/mixolydian-scale-for-guitar.php shows a mixolydian scale layed out over the neck of the guitar in its (shapes) but would I play it with the root note being G if I wanted to play it over G? It said doing that would give it a (mixolydian sound). but someone might say to play it over D mixolydian cause tahts where it is for major scale... but wouldnt G mixolydian work also?

So if I used G as the root for the mixolydian scale would the first box look like this?

|x||x|-|o|-|
|x|x|-|x|-|
|o|-|x|-|-|
|x|-|x|x|-|
|x|-|x|x|-|
|x|x|-|o|-|

Yes if the root is G that is G Mixolydian (include open strings). When I first looked at it it looked like you missed some notes then I realized you just left out the open strings.

Yes you use G as the root or point of resolution.

This outlines the G major triad, dominant 7th, extensions 9, 11, 13 and is good for the 7sus4 chord types too.

Seventh type chords from this mode = I7 ii7 iii7b5 IVmaj7 v7 vi7 VIImaj7

Apparently the it is a popular mode for riff making. The big O's "Oh Pretty Woman", The Beatles' "I Feel Fine" and "Birthday" as well as Hendrix's "Third Stone from the Sun" apparently all use Mixolydian mode for their main riffs.
Si
#9
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
im not trying to start stuff, but youve said that to me before.
do you think everyone is stupid and doesnt know the major scale?
He means what he said. The theory behind the major scale, not the shape or the notes or whatever, the theory.

You must know the formula (and by extension, you must know everything about musical intervals), the degrees, the intervals that are used, the chords which can be built of it, the circle of fifths and how major scale key signatures are formed.

If you know all that, you're a fair way into knowing the major scale.

He doesnt think everyone is stupid, but he knows that very few people demonstrate that they know the major scale inside out. He's not deliberatly being rude.
#10
^It's a fair point but it does seem to be a consistent initial answer from archeo to just about every question though.
Si
#11
Quote by 20Tigers
^It's a fair point but it does seem to be a consistent initial answer from archeo to just about every question though.


...and an answer I will continue to give when I feel that a person is jumping too far in without learning the basics.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
^At least the way you gave it in this thread was a bit less condescending than the ol' "You're not ready for modes"! I know you may not intend to be condescending, but that's how you generally come across to me. And anyway, if someone wants to get offended on an internet forum, that's their problem.

Hopefully people will look at the different kinds of advice given to them and choose which is appropriate for them.
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Quote by MudMartin
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#13
Quote by ehlert99
I know I need to have a tonal center of G, but somepeople would suggest I play it from a different mixolydian tonal center cause I want to play over G.... I am basically asking if G mixolydian would work on G.

What can get confusing for me is that someone might suggest using G major scale and stealing the mixolydian box from that which would have a different tonal center then and wouldnt be G mixolydian but something else (idk if D was right one for G major just pulled off top of my head)


I see what you mean. I think the difference comes with whether you mean playing over a G chord (which is what you mean) or playing in the key of G.

If you just wanted to play use the mixolydain over a G chord, then go ahead and play in G mixolydian.

If you wanted to use the mixolydain in the key of G major, you would have to use it with the root note of D. Although of course, you would have to be playing it over a D chord to technically call it the mixolydian, so it's realy the same principal.
Last edited by sam i am at Nov 6, 2008,
#15
If you wanted to sue the mixolydain in the key of G, you would have to use it with the root note of D.


There is a difference between key and key signature. Modal music is not key based, but G mixolydian would still be far more accurately described as G major than C major.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
Quote by Archeo Avis
There is a difference between key and key signature. Modal music is not key based, but G mixolydian would still be far more accurately described as G major than C major.


The TS was asking whether he should use the mixolydian straight over the G, or as the mixoldian mode of a G major scale.

I was trying to explain that the mixoldyian mode for G major would be D mixolydian, but if you played in D mixoldyain over a G major chord you would for all intensive purposes just be using G major scale, the only difference would be in your head and how you think of the fretboard. Hence why you would have to use a D underneath to be really using it, or to just play an actual G mixoydian over a G.

I undersatnd what you are saying though. Would I be right in assuming that for a piece of music written in G Mixolydian, the key signature would be G major and the b7 notes marked as naturals throughout?
#17
Arch, would you say I have a basic grasp on the theory behind the major scale? If not, can you please go about teaching me what you need, cause Im pretty sure I've found the typical Archeo reply to my threads a few times.

Ill go through what I think I know about the major scale.

The interval formula for constructing the major scale is Tone, Tone, Semi-Tone, Tone, Tone, Tone, Semi-Tone.

Its also classed as the Ionian mode.

The formula for an Ionian mode is: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, this is pretty pointless, but I felt I would include it anyway.

C Is the natural ionian key, because it contains all natural notes

i.e C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C

The modal notes (aka, the notes that make Ionian sound like Ionian, and note like something different are)

The 4th & 7th

The main chords in Ionian, are I ii & V or I IV & V

The usual note that sounds dissonant over the scale, is the natural 11t/4th, because its a half-step away from the third which is integral to the tonality.

The chords within any major key are.

Triads

Major I
Minor ii
Minor iii
Major IV
Major V
Minor vi
Diminished vii

Sevenths

Major 7 I
Minor 7 ii
Minor 7 iii
Major 7 IV
Dominant 7 V
Minor 7 vi
Half-Diminished 7 (min7b5) vii

Most stable, to most unstable tones

1 - 5 - 3 - 6 - 2 - 4 - 7

Is the order of most stable to most unstable major scale tones.

1: because its the tonic, the most consonant major scale tone.
5th: because its so consonant with the 1, does not feel the need to resolve, and provides barley any tonal colouration
3rd: because its part of the tonic triad, the most stable triad/chord of any key.
6th: Because its at tonal dissonance with the 5th, unlike the
2nd: which is at tonal dissonance with the tonic, which is a more stable tone that the 5th, so 2nd is a more unstable tone
4th: Because its a half-step away from a tonic triad tone
7th: Because its dissonant with the MOST stable chord tone, the natural 7th is so unstable it just begins (or pulls very strongly) to the tonic.

The technical names given to notes of the Major Scale

1: Tonic
2: Super-Tonic
3: Mediant
4: Sub-Dominant
5: Dominant
6: Sub-Mediant (Super Dominant)
7: Leading Note

* note in a natural minor scale, the 7th is reffered to as a sub-tonic, because it no longer has that pull to the tonic.

Tension in the major scale

Having the leading tone in a chord, makes the chord want to resolve, as it pulls to the tonic in whatever chord it may be.

The tri-tone in the chord, makes a structure very hard to be stable, for instance, an altered dominant altered being (b9 #9 b5 #5)

Is like a tumbling pile of bricks, it just wants to fall back to the tonic, because there is so much tension.

This is why a V - I resolution is so common, as the 3rd of the V is the LT and the 3rd and 7th of the chord are integral to the tonality (not something that can/should be easily omitted).

Tetrachords & Scale Construction

A tetrachord, is a 4 note chord.

When used in conjunction with major scale construction, it usually refers to a chord with the intervals.

Tone, Tone, Semi-Tone.

There are two tetrachords in a major scale, an UPPER tetrachord, and a LOWER tetrachord.

These structures can be used as a means to construct scales.

Both upper and lower tetrachords are separated by a tone.

C D E F Is a lower tetrachord of Cmaj

G A B C is a upper tetrachord of Cmaj.

As you can see they are both separated by a tone.

To build the next major scale round the circle of fifths.

You can make your upper tetrachord your lower tetrachord, and construct an upper tetrachord, example

G A B C - Upper tetrachord of Cmaj

Becomes lowered tetrachord of Gmaj.

G A B C - D E F# G

Gives you Gmaj.

Than take your upper tetrachord, and continue through the cycle.

This can also be used for building scales backwards around the circle of fifths.

C D E F is a lower tetrachord of Cmaj.

Making that your higher tetrachord, will end you up with a scale, one backwards around the circle

C D E F to F G A Bb - C D E F

etc.

The Circle Of Fifths

The circle of fifths is an arrangement of all 12 notes of the chromatic scale around a circle.

It is very handy for memorizing all 12 keys of the Major scale.

The rhythm: Fred Can Get Drunk At Every Bar

You can start on C, that has no sharps of flats

This is our natural Ionian scale.

From there on the you go up a fifth, C - G.

And put in Fred Sharp.

Thats G Major

Than up a fifth, D maj.

Add Can Sharp.

Thats D Major.

etc.

Sorry, I could say more. But it would just be ramblings about describing intervals etc.

If you can add a lot more to that, please do.

If im immune from being told to learn the basic theory behind the major scale, thats cool.

If not, goddamn well tell me what else I should/can know.
#18
Quote by sam i am
Would I be right in assuming that for a piece of music written in G Mixolydian, the key signature would be G major and the b7 notes marked as naturals throughout?

I've seen some music that has the mode written just above the stave with an asterisk. But the key signature is it's parent major scale.

So perhaps music written in G Mixolydian would have a key signature of C, but with the mode written above the stave with an asterisk.

So you wouldn't need to worry about marking the b7's as naturals, since all notes are natural in the key signature of C anyway.
#19
Galvanise69,

I don't recall ever replying to you in that way, though I may be mistaken. You've always seemed like one of the more knowledgeable posters anyway. There's always more to learn, but I don't see your lack of knowledge constraining you any time in the near future.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#20
Quote by mdc
I've seen some music that has the mode written just above the stave with an asterisk. But the key signature is it's parent major scale.

So perhaps music written in G Mixolydian would have a key signature of C, but with the mode written above the stave with an asterisk.

So you wouldn't need to worry about marking the b7's as naturals, since all notes are natural in the key signature of C anyway.


Yeah, I was just asking that because of:

Quote by Archeo Avis
G mixolydian would still be far more accurately described as G major than C major.


Which seemed to suggest that you would use key sig of G
#21
Which seemed to suggest that you would use key sig of G


A key signature is nothing more than a notational device. It is not the same thing as a key. Which key signature you use, if any, is entirely personal preference.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
^ "within reason".

Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
im not trying to start stuff, but youve said that to me before.
do you think everyone is stupid and doesnt know the major scale?


I do.

To be completely honest about it, if you don't understand how major scales and tonalities work, then you need to get that down. Then you need to learn about minor scales and tonalities. Then from there it should be really, really obvious that a mode is just an extension of the same kind of concept as relative minor/major and that problems with when it's "mixolydian/phrygian" are resolved in EXACTLY the same way as "minor/major".

Archeo answered the TS's questions perfectly and in a completely civil manner.
#23
Quote by Archeo Avis
Galvanise69,

I don't recall ever replying to you in that way, though I may be mistaken. You've always seemed like one of the more knowledgeable posters anyway. There's always more to learn, but I don't see your lack of knowledge constraining you any time in the near future.


Think it may have been earlier on, mabey last year at some point.

Obviously there's always more to learn, life would be pretty boring if there wasnt.

(not that you should try and make yourself as crap as possible so you always have things to learn, the fun is in learning)
#25
No, thats correct, your playing in G Mixolydian, which has a parent scale of C Major.

But if the melody revolves around G, and the harmony suggests G Mixolydian, than its G Mixolydian. Not C Major.