#1
Heres the deal, I believe I can't get much better at solos until I break out of the scales and start using modal changes to their full potential, problem is I've never seen a good lesson or thread that really puts this into detail. My favourite scales are phrygian dominant and harmonic minor which is a problem because I don't know how modal changes work with these 'altered' scales (I've played solos that go from say E minor to B phrygian before but it hasn't got that cool sound that i want). For the purpose of this discussion lets just say hypothetically a power chord progression that fits with E phrygian dominant is playing (such as E5 D5 E5 F5 G#5) and the lead guitarist is playing a shred solo based on E phrygian dominant (starting on the root at the 12th fret low E string) what modal change could he use in order to give the solo more flavour?
#3
if u want to write a solo just take a few notes that sound nice together, or don't, if you want that specific sound for a song, not paying attention to the scale mostly, just the basic shape. If u want 2 improvise just take your time and experiment when ur practicing and find a way to switch scales in the middle of a song, prefferably with a backing track, and then just use it whenever u want 2 while improvising.
#4
Try switching around between the 3 minor scales, or the 3 phrygian scales. There's the regular phrygian and the dominant phrygian, try also raising the 7th in the dominant phrygian. If the riff backing is all just 2 or 3 different notes then you can pretty much use any scale that fits in those 2 or 3 notes.

Make sure you also follow the chord progression, a solo that doesn't follow will still fit in but it sounds better if it did follow the progression. This is probably the most suggested video in Musician Talk but it's good, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5777562536751428345
#5
Thanks thats a nice thread but it shows how to use three standard mode changes with altered chords. I need to learn how to shuffle out of phrygian dominant (which is a bit different to the standard Ionian dorian etc) over power chords (for my rhythm guitarists sake, we play metal and I don't think Cmaj and F7sus would go down too well). The thing I found interesting about that thread is it implied that in order for a modal change to occur in a solo the chord progrssion also had to change, would that be the case for my circumstances?
#6
I don't think the chord progression would have to change, but you would have to get creative with your phrasing.

I like the minor harmonic as well, I got a few solo's I use it in, but I generally switch octave (e to e, etc.) but you could also progress in the key of whatever note you like.

Come to think of it, if you played the E phrygian in the key of E major you could use the phygian with any of these roots: E F# G# A B C# or D#. Give that a shot, as far as theory is concerned that should work, but you never know until you phrase it.

Once again, hope this helped.
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Last edited by gizmodious at Nov 6, 2008,
#7
Quote by gizmodious
I don't think the chord progression would have to change, but you would have to get creative with your phrasing.

I like the minor harmonic as well, I got a few solo's I use it in, but I generally switch octave (e to e, etc.) but you could also progress in the key of whatever note you like.

Come to think of it, if you played the E phrygian in the key of E major you could use the phygian with any of these roots: E F# G# A B C# or D#. Give that a shot, as far as theory is concerned that should work, but you never know until you phrase it.

Once again, hope this helped.


Im pretty bad when it comes to theory and related terminologies so you're gonna have to enlighten me on what phrasing is. And when you say play E phrygian in the key of E major do you mean E phrygian over an E major Chord progression or the phrygian mode of E major?
#8
Phrasing isnt theory. Phrasing is essentially how you play. How you construct your lines. For instance instead of playing a never ending sequence of notes...you break it up into musical chunks...or phrases. Just like we say phrases when we speak as opposed to constantly talking without pausing.
Andy

EDIT: Check out Freepowers phrasing article here http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/phrasing_for_dummies.html its pretty good at explaining what it is.
#9
Quote by pwrmax
Try switching around between the 3 minor scales, or the 3 phrygian scales. There's the regular phrygian and the dominant phrygian, try also raising the 7th in the dominant phrygian. If the riff backing is all just 2 or 3 different notes then you can pretty much use any scale that fits in those 2 or 3 notes.

Make sure you also follow the chord progression, a solo that doesn't follow will still fit in but it sounds better if it did follow the progression. This is probably the most suggested video in Musician Talk but it's good, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5777562536751428345


This is a good video. So in a way the less complicated the chord progression, the more complicated the solo can be? As there is a smaller chance that you will play a scale that doesn't fit or something. I don't know, can someone give an example of modal changes they use when playing in phrygian dominant?
#10
Say you're in E dominant phrygian and the chord progression goes over to A then the mode would change to A harmonic minor. A complicated chord progression is like a Ferrari, if you're a good driver then you can make good use of its speed but if you're a terrible driver then it won't go so well. A complicated progression can give you more headroom to make a more complex solo. The only exception I can think of is 'Stairway to Heaven', the chords for the solo are just Am G F.
#12
For the purpose of this discussion lets just say hypothetically a power chord progression that fits with E phrygian dominant is playing (such as E5 D5 E5 F5 G#5) and the lead guitarist is playing a shred solo based on E phrygian dominant (starting on the root at the 12th fret low E string) what modal change could he use in order to give the solo more flavour?


You can't really effect a strong modal change there because the chords themselves are going to strongly imply E phrygian dom. Especially if you have them moving fairly quickly.

Here's a tip - there are 4 archived threads on modal playing, I suggest you read em -

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187159
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16999

Those'd be the ones I recommend.
#15
Quote by edg
^ No.

A power chord has no 3d. The 3rd indicates major or minor. If the rhythm isn't specifying
a 3rd the soloist can interpret it as either major or minor. It doesn't have anything to
do with complication.


Where did I say anything about power chords?
#17
I've just started using a scale which I like the sound of, actually not sure of the name of it so i'm just using the name "Steve's altered scale 1"

It is the intervals 1 2 3 4 5 b7, anyone know what it is called, it's like Mixolydian without the 6. The 6 can work too but I prefer to leave it out as it clashed in some of the chords I was soloing over, can't remember the progression off hand.

The point to my rambling is, I just experimented with individual notes which I liked the sound of over a specific chord progression, then worked out what intervals they would be by counting up from the root. Now I have a scale I like that I can play in a certain situation. This is the way i'm going to approach things from now on, I'll learn other scales but going to focus more on adjusting the scales to what I like the sound of, leaving out and adding in notes I want. I think this is the best way to break out of using strict scales (please understand that I don't think there is anything wrong with using strict scales), I just want to sound different from another player. I love it when players go off on a run that you don't know where it is going, using loads of chromatics etc.