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#1
Is Tom Araya even good at bass? I've never heard him stand out in Slayer's songs. In fact, I've never even heard the bass at all.
#2
SLAYERRRRRRRR yes hes good at bass if u actually hear him,
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#3
theres only one of two reasons you dont hear any bass in any song by a band thats been around for 25 years

A) he has no amp plugged in

B) they take him out of the mixing cuz he sucks

slayer sucks in general, everybody loves them for the wrong reasons
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#4
I've seen Slayer twice. I noticed he pretty much constantly plays root notes... He puts his focus into vocals. Not a bad thing.
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Is there such a thing as a heavy riff with out chugging on the e string?
#5
He mainly plays root notes, nothing really amazing about his playing. Although singing and playing at that speed would probably be difficult / take some getting used to.
#6
I mean I love Slayer they're one of my favorite bands but I've never heard any bass parts for the Slayer songs and I've never seen Tom Araya playing by himself on a video or anything. And then I saw his ESP signature bass today and it looks sick and everything, but what tone does he have that someone would want to go out and emulate?
#7
Quote by shadowsoldier08
theres only one of two reasons you dont hear any bass in any song by a band thats been around for 25 years

A) he has no amp plugged in

B) they take him out of the mixing cuz he sucks

slayer sucks in general, everybody loves them for the wrong reasons

I think you are deaf if you can't hear the bass in slayer. They don't mix out the bass at all.
#8
Quote by maidenforce19
And then I saw his ESP signature bass today and it looks sick and everything, but what tone does he have that someone would want to go out and emulate?


What tone does pete wetnz have that someone wants to emulate? There's a kid at my school with that bass and I want to hurt him so badly..... Anyways yeah signature guitars are just for money and endorsement. Kerry King and the other dude probably have enough custom models so Tom was the next best bet for more cash.
Quote by breakdown123
Is there such a thing as a heavy riff with out chugging on the e string?
#9
Quote by maidenforce19
I mean I love Slayer they're one of my favorite bands but I've never heard any bass parts for the Slayer songs and I've never seen Tom Araya playing by himself on a video or anything. And then I saw his ESP signature bass today and it looks sick and everything, but what tone does he have that someone would want to go out and emulate?

lots of boosted mids
#11
he can play bass, and in his younger days played most of the fast paced slayer songs with fingers. I remember he switched over to a pick so he could keep up, that was from an interview with him.

By no means are his bass lines intricate, Arya follows the guitars. He does his job, he holds the low end and allows the guitars to do the work.
#12
Alot of his parts are very fast, and some are quite hard to play and do vocals, but thats more practice than actual skill at bass.

Quote by BassmanArk
he can play bass, and in his younger days played most of the fast paced slayer songs with fingers. I remember he switched over to a pick so he could keep up, that was from an interview with him.


Do you what album he swapped on, just curious to know?
Last edited by Gofer boy at Nov 23, 2008,
#13
Quote by BassmanArk
By no means are his bass lines intricate, Arya follows the guitars. He does his job, he holds the low end and allows the guitars to do the work.


This pretty much sums it up. He is a very competent player. No Geddy Lee, but his is a good player. Slayer play incredibly fast, with a guitar orientated sound. To sing and play intricate lines at that speed would be phenomenal. As the guitarists spend a lot of line doing pretty complex lines, the best thing he can do is to hold down the low end in a simple manner.

Saying that, playing the whole way through some of their songs in an achievement, purely on the tempo.
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#14
Yes, with the speed slayer play, there is no way you could really play anything more intricate than root notes.

Personally I think he does an excelltant job on slayer records and especially live.

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#15
Quote by shinhoman
Yes, with the speed slayer play, there is no way you could really play anything more intricate than root notes.

Personally I think he does an excelltant job on slayer records and especially live.

x


Aye, that he does. It seems that a lot of people automatically think root notes=suck. However, even though he is playing the root notes, the lines themselves are still pretty hard in terms of right and left hand co-ordination. It's not like he's belting out constant Eb notes. Example: The pre-verse in Raining Blood.

And then let's factor in the stupid amounts of time changes in a Slayer song. Araya does his job extremely well, and deserves no criticism whatsoever concerning his playing.
#16
I'm not a huge slayer fan, but my youngest is, so I get to quite a bit of Tom Araya, It takes a decent amount of stamina in the plucking hand to play through a few of their songs in a row. The notes may not be complex per se, but the rhythms are quite complex.

Again--he's the right bass player for the group. And sometimes not standing out in the mix and being part of the overall sound is just where a bass player needs to be.
#17
The only Slayer song where you can hear the bass really well is their cover of In-a-Gadda-da-Vida. On other songs, I can kind of hear the bass, but it blends in with the guitars a lot.
#18
You can hear the bass well on the South of Heaven album... His tone is really good in my opinion. Classic thrash metal bass tone, with lots of mids and treble.
#19
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Aye, that he does. It seems that a lot of people automatically think root notes=suck. However, even though he is playing the root notes, the lines themselves are still pretty hard in terms of right and left hand co-ordination. It's not like he's belting out constant Eb notes. Example: The pre-verse in Raining Blood.

And then let's factor in the stupid amounts of time changes in a Slayer song. Araya does his job extremely well, and deserves no criticism whatsoever concerning his playing.


This. Considering the speed and complexity of Slayer songs, and the fact that he sings as well, I doubt I could do a whole lot better.
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#20
Slayer have a lot of bass in their mixes. The reason you may not be able to hear Tom Araya that well is because he doesn't play that many different notes to differentiate him from the guitar's riffing. Listen through some nice speakers or headphones, the bass frequencies are definitely there.
#21
Quote by Gofer boy

Do you what album he swapped on, just curious to know?


couldn't tell you, im not sure if he changed to picks on the albums, but live he has.
#22
Quote by shadowsoldier08
theres only one of two reasons you dont hear any bass in any song by a band thats been around for 25 years

A) he has no amp plugged in

B) they take him out of the mixing cuz he sucks

slayer sucks in general, everybody loves them for the wrong reasons

If I love Slayer because I like Kerry's tattoos, is that wrong? I can like a band for whatever reason I want to. Your post is so arrogant.
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#23
Quote by TooFast
If I love Slayer because I like Kerry's tattoos, is that wrong? I can like a band for whatever reason I want to. Your post is so arrogant.

Yes, I think it's wrong, and liking a band for it's image is exactly what's wrong with music today. I think that example is more arrogant than the original one.

And that said, I think if you're listening to Slayer for the bass lines, you're really missing the point.
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#24
Quote by thefitz
Yes, I think it's wrong, and liking a band for it's image is exactly what's wrong with music today. I think that example is more arrogant than the original one.

And that said, I think if you're listening to Slayer for the bass lines, you're really missing the point.

To be honest, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with music today.
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#25
Quote by TooFast
If I love Slayer because I like Kerry's tattoos, is that wrong? I can like a band for whatever reason I want to. Your post is so arrogant.


I agree. I don't agree with comments like A band sucks because_____. Just because you think they suck doesn't mean that you are right. Take it elsewhere. Like /b/.
#26
Quote by thefitz
Yes, I think it's wrong, and liking a band for it's image is exactly what's wrong with music today. I think that example is more arrogant than the original one.

And that said, I think if you're listening to Slayer for the bass lines, you're really missing the point.


Okay. My father first started liking Iron Maiden for its cover art. That would fall under its image would it not?? He bought the number of the beast album completely based off of the artwork. He had never heard them before and now they are his favorite band and its a band that he has seen play three times. What is wrong now??
#27
If you can't see the difference between one person being inspired to buy one album off of it's cover art and a person liking a band solely on one member's tattoos, I really don't want to converse with you.

And TooFast, if you can't see anything wrong with music today given the wealth of music history and information available on the internet, that's half the problem.
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#28
I don't necessarily agree with either of you, and I don't disagree either. Yes fitz, mainstream music sucks, and its completely about image, no substance. But when has it ever been about the music? Mainstream music has always been like that.

Liking a band based soley on their image is pretty stupid, but who are we to judge? How is it different from being into a band because you support their beliefs? As long as you like the music, who cares how you got into them? That sort of elitist attitude I consider more of a problem than an 11 year old who likes Slayer because he played Raining Blood on Guitar Hero, downloaded their discography and finds that he actually likes the music



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#29
Monterey Pop Festival. Woodstock was a pop festival. Mainstream music changes with every age and so does the business. When Bob Dylan went electric, he was accused of being a 'cheesy pop band.' It was ALWAYS about the music. It just so happens that the music is getting worse and worse as time goes on.

And let me get this straight - who are we to judge? How is it any different? THAT is elitism that is stronger and more damaging to music than mine. The "if you're happy that's all that matters" is the very concept that lets standards slide. It's the thing that started the crappy music scene in the first place. People believing "well I don't like it but someone does somewhere for their own reasons of varying significance so I should just keep my mouth shut so I don't look like a jerk" resulted in the 'threadbare culture' (as Anthony Jackson called it in a recent issue of BP) we now know as music, and that 'holier than thou' attitude is worse than anybody who's elitist by taste.

It's not about how you got into them. It's WHY you stay listening to them. Liking someone for their tattoos is different than checking out a band because you liked their tattoos and finding that the band is awesome.

People who watch the Sopranos because it's badass and about the mafia are missing the point entirely and I think you'd have to be half retarded to sit there and think "well, as long as they like it, who am I to judge?" If you ignore the relationships, character development, acting, and mental landscapes of that show in favour of solely the bravado and violence, you're ignoring the things that the directors and writers invested all of their energy in in favour of something superficial. It's like buying a gift for someone who uses only the box it came in. As long as she liked the box? Get over yourself. You'll find yourself settling like that more and more as time goes on until you get to the point where you'll listen to dudes talking over a metronome. And all music will be gone.

Why do I feel this way? I feel this way because I love music. I refuse to let what I love be tarnished and cheapened by being put on the same list as crap and I don't want people with no taste involved with it. I don't want it to be loved by people who don't appreciate it. Rosie O'Donnell shouldn't be put on the same list as Kate Beckinsale and you shouldn't like Goodfellas for the swearing.
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Last edited by thefitz at Nov 10, 2008,
#30
Quote by thefitz
Monterey Pop Festival. Woodstock was a pop festival. Mainstream music changes with every age and so does the business. When Bob Dylan went electric, he was accused of being a 'cheesy pop band.' It was ALWAYS about the music. It just so happens that the music is getting worse and worse as time goes on.


They were classics that will always be remembered for their time. But you think that all music was like that? No, we remember the ones that actually deserve rememberance. And you said it yourself, mainstream music DOES change with the times. Unfortunately, it has taken a real shit turn in the last ten years, and I agree with you on that.

Quote by thefitz
And let me get this straight - who are we to judge? How is it any different? THAT is elitism that is stronger and more damaging to music than mine. The "if you're happy that's all that matters" is the very concept that lets standards slide. It's the thing that started the crappy music scene in the first place. People believing "well I don't like it but someone does somewhere for their own reasons of varying significance so I should just keep my mouth shut so I don't look like a jerk" resulted in the 'threadbare culture' (as Anthony Jackson called it in a recent issue of BP) we now know as music, and that 'holier than thou' attitude is worse than anybody who's elitist by taste.


Who are we to judge is the foundation of society. Different strokes for different folks. For example, I am very decidedly UN-religious, but I don't go out and slam people because it is not my place to judge what they are into, its what makes us individuals. Now, I agree with standards slipping, and as musicians, I think pop music pisses all of us off that some slut comes along, puts some crappy music together and sings a song about how she kissed a girl and she liked it and instantly is a household name. It sucks. But, as I said, I can't change it, so I choose not to listen to it.

Quote by thefitz
It's not about how you got into them. It's WHY you stay listening to them. Liking someone for their tattoos is different than checking out a band because you liked their tattoos and finding that the band is awesome.


Agree with this 100%, no argument here

Quote by thefitz
People who watch the Sopranos because it's badass and about the mafia are missing the point entirely and I think you'd have to be half retarded to sit there and think "well, as long as they like it, who am I to judge?" If you ignore the relationships, character development, acting, and mental landscapes of that show in favour of solely the bravado and violence, you're ignoring the things that the directors and writers invested all of their energy in in favour of something superficial. It's like buying a gift for someone who uses only the box it came in. As long as she liked the box? Get over yourself. You'll find yourself settling like that more and more as time goes on until you get to the point where you'll listen to dudes talking over a metronome. And all music will be gone.


Also agree with this. I agree with some of your points, however music is such an intimate thing that I don't believe in telling someone else that their music is shithouse because I don't like it. Free choice is a hell of a thing



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#31
Free choice may be the foundation of society, but jail exists for those whose free choice gets out of hand.

I just find a real hypocrisy of people saying 'who are we to judge' when someone says something negative. Who are you to judge what I'm saying? Who am I to judge your judgement on what I'm saying? Who are you to judge my judgment on judging what you said about my judgery? I've yet to hear a response that made sense. Choose whatever you want. I think choosing not to like something and feeling strongly about it is as valid a choice as being an idiot.

If I call out someone on their crappy music taste and they unleash a passionate response, their taste isn't crappy - it's just not mine. If I do the same and get 'meh', or 'don't judge me' or 'don't be hating', there's no intimacy between the person and their music.

Music is getting crappier but it's at the point where it's actually effecting the finances and business end of it. Record deals are smaller and less frequent/significant, and sales are way, way down. And what is invested in is so common denominator that it's produced simply because it can reach a wide audience base with a lukewarm reaction. Released to be liked enough just to buy a CD, not the concert tickets and T-shirts to go along with proper fandom. Before, when music sucked, it was in a 'who the hell signed these guys!?' kinda way. It sucks now because it's a business model reaching equilibrium and homogenicity, and saying 'different strokes for different folks' outright is the same as saying 'I accept this.' And I don't accept it. I never will accept it. And I'll stand up for someone with a negative opinion just as passionately as you'll stand up for the people the negativity's against. Both opinions are valid, but nobody ever sees it that way.
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Last edited by thefitz at Nov 10, 2008,
#32
Quote by thefitz
Free choice may be the foundation of society, but jail exists for those whose free choice gets out of hand.

I just find a real hypocrisy of people saying 'who are we to judge' when someone says something negative. Who are you to judge what I'm saying? Who am I to judge your judgement on what I'm saying? Who are you to judge my judgment on judging what you said about my judgery? I've yet to hear a response that made sense. Choose whatever you want. I think choosing not to like something and feeling strongly about it is as valid a choice as being an idiot.

If I call out someone on their crappy music taste and they unleash a passionate response, their taste isn't crappy - it's just not mine. If I do the same and get 'meh', or 'don't judge me' or 'don't be hating', there's no intimacy between the person and their music.

Music is getting crappier but it's at the point where it's actually effecting the finances and business end of it. Record deals are smaller and less frequent/significant, and sales are way, way down. And what is invested in is so common denominator that it's produced simply because it can reach a wide audience base with a lukewarm reaction. Released to be liked enough just to buy a CD, not the concert tickets and T-shirts to go along with proper fandom. Before, when music sucked, it was in a 'who the hell signed these guys!?' kinda way. It sucks now because it's a business model reaching equilibrium and homogenicity, and saying 'different strokes for different folks' outright is the same as saying 'I accept this.' And I don't accept it. I never will accept it. And I'll stand up for someone with a negative opinion just as passionately as you'll stand up for the people the negativity's against. Both opinions are valid, but nobody ever sees it that way.



Yes, there are always going to be those who abuse the oppertunities given to them. That is also part of human nature.

As for me judging you, I'm not. I'm giving your words careful consideration and offering a different view on certain aspects. I say certain because I agree with majority of what you are saying. I think people who jump on the bandwagon of whats "in" deserve to be publicly abused as much as possible. Thats just turning everything in a ginat popularity contest, which shits me because that is not how music should be taken.

As for it affecting the business side of things, I was born in 1993, so the way it is now is the only way I have ever known it, so if this part is wrong, please disregard it. But record deals being down are a good thing as I see it. God knows that some record companies screw artists harder than a $10 hooker. Musicians don't even own the right to their own music, it belongs to the record label. They get a massive advance on their signing to a label, but they do not get a cent until all that has been paid back with interest. I see it as similar to getting a bank loan to buy a house. You chip away at it gradually until at the end of the day, you own the house. Only difference with record labels is that you don't own shit, you just aren't in debt anymore.
Sales are down because of cheap bastards who refuse to support the artist by actually buying the album, not downloading it. That's what ****s it up.

Bands don't go on massive tours anymore because the demand is down because of crappy pop fans who download stuff without being into it, simply to be popular. Real music fans buy it, but how many are there out there? I personally go to concerts and spend most of money on cds, the rest on gear to make music in the hopes that one day someone will part with cash to own one of my cds. But rock isn't pop anymore unfortunately. So labels don't flog there shit as they do the pussy cat dolls, or katy perry, or gabriella cilmi.

I just don't think you should come down so hard on people for the taste (or lack of) in music. Although if they do just say meh to your criticism, please punch them for me.



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#33
I was around 4-9 years old when the grunge thing hit, and music subsequently died, so I was around for it, but not too terribly concerned with it at the time. I think who owns the music is irrelevant because it's residual income one way or the other. Even though labels take most of it, you're still getting something. Labels want to make money, so they'll make you money as they make it for themselves. Not fair, no, but not as unfair as it seems. Bands these days make their money through touring anyway, but the lack of record deals clips the amount of tours. Record labels don't seem to be interested in signing groups that don't fit the status quo they've set, which we'll get to in a minute.

But this is it - the business. It seems that, if you look at the previous trends in music, the record labels were playing keep-up. It seemed to go like this: a new 'sound' (genre, if you will) would come out of the woodwork and gain popularity through the underground. Labels would take notice, signing these pioneer bands, and subsequently promote the hell out of them. The halcyon days of these pioneers would result in some of the best music of a generation. However, record labels will want to make more money, so they begin to sign many 'me too' bands. The market gets saturated with the same sound, the public gets tired of it, and popularity dies off. A new sound emerges, and the cycle repeats. Just around to the point of post-grunge, mid to late nineties. The cycle then stops, as record labels tell the public what to like, and what to listen to. The public obliges, for whatever reason. There's no more cycles - just big brother telling you what to listen to. And people too terrified to say anything about it in case they look ignorant.

The best example of this? Rap. Fight the power! Fight the power! Yeah! No singing, lyrics over melody, beats above all. A new, totally fresh sound concerned with shaking the foundations of... everything. And it took over. And the 'fight the power' message became 'we're in power', and nobody got sick of the sound. Why? Because they were right. They WERE making money. They WERE #1. And you can't argue with that. There's no rise/fall - this rap artist gets big, starts producing three other new artists, who start producing three artists each, who collaborate on one song. Rap went from a sine wave to an exponential function. And you daren't 'hate on it'. They're rich, and I'm not. I'll stop the example here.

Music since day one was about bucking the trend, killing the status quo, and indeed about fighting the power. Now the labels dictate the pace, giving people that they make think what they want to hear. In music, the message hasn't changed - most acts are still about protest, civil unrest, and the like. It's just that now they aren't fighting anybody. It's now what the labels are hawking. It's gotten so ridiculous that going against the status quo is the most status quo thing you can do. Going against the status quo would be following the status quo, which is going against the status quo.

I think a lot of this had to do with lack of critical judgement. The rite of passage that was a hit song or video is now a strategic financial endeavour, not the calling card of a new sound chosen by the people. Yet the public still seems to think it is. 'Pop' used to mean 'popular.' The public chose what counted as 'pop' music. Now, quite literally, labels are filing artists under 'popular.' They're literally telling us what's popular. And not only does nobody care, they're downright passionate in defending it. They defend it by talking down those critical of the music. Different strokes for different folks.

I really don't think I'm full of hate, really. In fact, I think I have a very big heart. I love music like a family member, like a lover, and in some states, both at the same time. I defend music like I would defend my sibling or girlfriend. I'm not going to let some schmuck convince me they're part of my family. I'm not going to let some fat chick with a peg leg tell me she's my girlfriend.

I'm not hard on people because of music. I'm hard on them because they don't think. And they're downright arrogant in their fleeced state. "Fuck you, ignorance is bliss", if you will. I'm not coming down hard on people because of their music. I'm making sure people who have opinions that aren't overtly positive and nurturing don't get hushed by the PC police - because I think that's the only way we'll get music back on track. That, or give me a record deal.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#34
Hopefully, all it will take is another rising to destroy this trend of status quo. The trouble is, the more established something gets, the harder it is to topple it.

However, with the advent of music downloading, the labels are being forced to begin to follow the consumers. People are just ignoring a lot of what is presented by the labels and instead are just downloading as much as they can and then keeping the bits they like. If the industry cannot adapt to this culture where people want to be able to try a much wider range of material before they purchase, it is only a matter of time before a couple of major labels go broke, while the specialist, more underground labels thrive.
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#35
Yeah, I hear you, but it seems to me when people download as much as they can and keep what they like, it reminds me of the aforementioned discography download. Up and coming bands don't have -ographies. I think a lot of the mp3 hording comes from dudes wanting to get into bands they've heard about but never listened to - typically bands from the 'old days' when they were allowed to experiment and mass a wealth of material.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#37
Quote by maidenforce19
Is Tom Araya even good at bass? I've never heard him stand out in Slayer's songs. In fact, I've never even heard the bass at all.

I'll send a PM as soon as this post is done. LOTS of Slayer has very audible bass, specifically from Show No Mercy through Reign In Blood.

Quote by Gofer boy
Do you what album he swapped on, just curious to know?


He switched for Reign In Blood. All of the previous albums and demos were done with fingers, and were (IMO) better bass lines. It seems like he switched his role from bassist/vocalist to vocalist/bassist, to me.
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#38
Fitz, you make many interesting points, and I was actually fascinated when reading your post.

First off, you've swayed me you bastard. I've got nothing to contest with your post because I completely agree with it. Music is my life. It's what gets me through the day, and I also consider it like your example as being a family member.

I took the position of defending those who cop shit for their music taste simply because I am that guy. I thought you had an elitist attitude, but I just realised it's passion.



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#39
It's funny, I had a very similar conversation with a friend the other day and she insisted I was an elitist asshole who can't appreciate anything. Oh well, different strokes for different folks...
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#40
Quote by thefitz
It's funny, I had a very similar conversation with a friend the other day and she insisted I was an elitist asshole who can't appreciate anything. Oh well, different strokes for different folks...


Haha, I may be mistaken then.. Nah, I can't call you an elitist asshole after you've explained it the way you have, it just makes too much sense to be elitist.



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