#1
My band is currently finishing up the final songs for our new demo (for distribution purposes, you know how that is)

The deal is, we've got 10 regular songs, than a 7-part long-ass epic concept song. The regular songs are reflections of ideas, characters, and moods expressed in the concept. Is this a good idea, or is it a bit overdone?
#6
How long is the concept song?

For an album I would say go for it, but for a demo I might not want a song that's too long because people might just stop listening (and might even be put off by it).
#7
so you've got 10 songs averaging 4 minutes or there abouts, and one really long song? are you Pink Floyd by any chance?

jokes aside, i think its a great idea, but personally i would make it a 2cd package with the really long song on the second cd. make it out to be something better though, like a 2 for 1 deal or something stupid like that. oh wait, are you selling them, or giving them away?

if selling them then thats an ok idea, but if your gonna give em away, i suggest saving the really long song, and cutting down the others to perhaps just 6 songs on the cd.
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#8
how long-ass is it? Cause i think its better to have 10 4min songs and no really long ones, than like 2 4minuters and a 30min song. Better make a separate record for that. And write one more 4minuter so you can put out a cd with 4minuters that goes to 11!
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#9
There's no real rules, if it captivates the attention of the listener and fits on one cd (if thats your plan), then go for it. BREAK THE MOLD!
#10
Between the Buried and Me created Colors which are really 8 songs that flow as one song. Although 10 3-4 minute songs plus the epic in a demo. Hell no, put maybe 6 of the short songs on the demo, and when you do release a CD, put the 10 3-4 minute songs. Save the epic for one CD, although it depends on how long it is.
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#11
Concept song is 7 parts, so Its round 24 minutes or a bit less I believe

I was thinking to record the whole damn shebang, release shit as a double album, put some of the non-concept songs on an EP to distribute freely, and hopefully try to get some indie deals so we can reproduce it and market it.
#12
Quote by Highwaytohell
Concept song is 7 parts, so Its round 24 minutes or a bit less I believe

I was thinking to record the whole damn shebang, release shit as a double album, put some of the non-concept songs on an EP to distribute freely, and hopefully try to get some indie deals so we can reproduce it and market it.


Well since no one here except you knows the lenght of the non-concept songs, lets just say they are 4-5 minutes.

So lets look at it like this.

EP - 4-6 non-concept 20-40 minutes

Album - Concept song and rest of the non-concept as "concept album filler". Hell you could work on the non-concept songs and create an epic with those. 24 minutes + 4 non-concept songs = about 45 minutes.

If you work it out like that, when you play shows you get 30-45 minutes so no matter what you get to play the epic and at least 1 song.

Then take the other songs you didn't use and have them ready for your next album.
Quote by hostilekid
shadesofanger, you're my hero.


Quote by GoldenBlues
So I was wondering, are black people capable feeling love? I mean can their brains comprehend that kind of emotion, or are they not programmed that way.
#13
its sort of a 2112 type thing, but the non-concept songs arent really filler, as they have shit to do with the story. It's in a sense a little like coheed and cambria.

And yes, the non concept songs are roughly each like 4-6 minutes
#14
Quote by Highwaytohell
its sort of a 2112 type thing, but the non-concept songs arent really filler, as they have shit to do with the story. It's in a sense a little like coheed and cambria.

And yes, the non concept songs are roughly each like 4-6 minutes


First of I mean filler as in to fill in the rest of the album with the concept in it. But now that I know it goes along with the story I understand what you mean.

But what I am getting at is that you don't want to make the album too long. If you want it all as one story your going to need enough time on stage to tell your story. You might not get enough time to complete it.
Quote by hostilekid
shadesofanger, you're my hero.


Quote by GoldenBlues
So I was wondering, are black people capable feeling love? I mean can their brains comprehend that kind of emotion, or are they not programmed that way.
#15
I'm not actually wondering about length. I don't care how long it is. I was just wondering if songs aranged like this would be a generic or overdone idea.
#16
Quote by Highwaytohell
I'm not actually wondering about length. I don't care how long it is. I was just wondering if songs aranged like this would be a generic or overdone idea.


To answer you question, no. Concept albums are not overdone. In my opinion, albums are the true art form, not singles. It's always more interesting when you can listen to an entire album that has more than just "My girlfriend dumped me" or "Slit my wrists and black my eyes" for a full 80 minutes. An entire album having a storyline is an amazing thing to accomplish.

Your Coheed & Cambria example is perfect. The music is excellent, but the storyline is what keeps me buying the albums. It may come off as gimmicky at times, but it works.
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#17
No problem for a self-published CD, and othwerwise your label will advise you what the best approach for your album will be.

If you want to use it on a demo, I suggest you edit it down to a 2- or 3-minute sample (eg. a good song excerpt with fade in/out at each end).
#18
I think it sounds great. Look at Manowar's album.. oh shit.. what is it.. Triumph of Steel! They got a like.. 27 minutes long song, in many parts, about Troy and such. I think it's gonna be all fine - i personally love stuff like that!


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#19
There's nothing wrong with it, persay. Whether or not it's something you want to put on a demo, though, is something up to your band, though.
#21
what's the concept? Do any of you have any idea of the kind of composition needed to keep a work like that together? I mean not trying to sound elitist but just because you can make that much music doesn't mean it won't suck.
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#22
Quote by clap_clap_clap
what's the concept? Do any of you have any idea of the kind of composition needed to keep a work like that together? I mean not trying to sound elitist but just because you can make that much music doesn't mean it won't suck.


my rebuddle is below.
I think I mislead people when I said demo. We are doing a self-produced recording in a studio this month, and so, you see, we're assembling these songs. For the EP I'm only going to pic A FEW of the non-story songs that are radio-applicable and recognizable. The full album will have both parts.

The concept is an elaborately crafted (well, not so elaborately, but well planned) concept which I have come up with, just out of creative inspiration one day. I do understand the incredible workload needed to keep this beast together (believe me it's not fun!) as we are nearly complete, all that remains is the tightening of the songs flow and the hiring of a chick to do vox on one of the parts. It's a bit intricate, one part contains polyrhythms another contains a rapid tempo change.

I got the whole idea of making an album forged with reflections of a story from another concept which is the Sequel to the story of this one. Per-say it is a bit simaliar to Coheed and Cambria, however, it does not epitomize a set science fiction novel, it is more or less a reflection of the ideas of my band (mostly me b/c i'm the writer), and it is very rooted in the idea that an album should encompass all elements of the emotions we all feel, from sadness to hatred to love to envy. The songs are not completely linear, nor are they even transmitted in the same medium as C&C, as i'm planning intricate story movies to go along with them, i'm planning more artistic films. Why should one be limited?

Take an album like, Axis: Bold as Love. one may say, hey this is just a bunch of hendrix's songs. Wrong. Perhaps he did not do this deliberately, but subtly, it contains an overall theme and transcending idea of love and how it encompasses, enrages and changes us, whisks us away and changes us. The album contains, passion, death, envy, sadness, confusion, but also realization that we are all ever-changing.

I'm trying to accomplish such a thing, make an album full of raw unbridled energy, passion, fury, lust, hope, and all the emotions, and allow a subtle story to help me convey these things.
I know I've got my limitations as a 15 year old kid, but I'm doing the best job I can to make a professional, in-depth, powerful and passionate music experience.
#24
way way way overdone. WOW 10 songs? and a 7 part...no no no. Seriously, though, rethink this. You are making a big mistake. That is too much.
#25
Quote by alex0203
way way way overdone. WOW 10 songs? and a 7 part...no no no. Seriously, though, rethink this. You are making a big mistake. That is too much.


So writing albums instead of individual songs is overdone? Wow, that's news to me. Nobody is going to honestly criticize somebody for being creative. The only criticism will come from the quality of the story, the quality of the music, and the jealousy of those who can't write an album worth of good material.
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Quote by MuffinMan
Jesus was all like "To those about to rock, I salute you." then he grabbed his mighty axe and rocked the Romans out really hard. Of course they were strict classical music so....
#26
Quote by Black Star
So writing albums instead of individual songs is overdone? Wow, that's news to me. Nobody is going to honestly criticize somebody for being creative. The only criticism will come from the quality of the story, the quality of the music, and the jealousy of those who can't write an album worth of good material.


Excellent, I guess I'll just have to get the music a bit tighter than. We basically have each part without transitions, so each part individually. We just need to piece it all together and turn it up . I'm trying to make intricate arrangements that do not take away from simple strong structure. Everybody is always trying to be technical, but there is an extent to which that should go on a musical level. Too much technicallity can destroy the vibe and the groove of a song.
Last edited by Highwaytohell at Nov 14, 2008,