#1
what are people's tactics for comping over really fast swing?

when playing charts like Caravan or It Don't Mean a Thing (which are usually done around 250 bpm) i'm at a loss as to what to play.

four-on-the-floor straight crotchets doesnt work at that tempo, and sometimes doubling the melody doesn't either.

so, ideas?

Quote by T.S.R.
what?
if i were a midget...id go masturbate in public because...hey, im a midget and i can get away with anything


Quote by yawn
I heard Hitler was a pretty good guitarist back in his day...


Quote by guitar?
You're a towel.
#3
I ignore the written rhthym and only play chords on the second and fourth beats and I play really staccato. This is good because it gives me alot of time to change chords and my band co-ord likes it better this way. Win-win situation.
Sure it's not traditional jazz, but everyone needs their own style.

It gets ridiculous when the chords are 11th chords and weird chromatic basslined inversions. These progressions are near impossible to comp even at quarter speed.

ninjaEDIT: and what voicings are you using? When I use crap voicings I play really slow. Post the chords and I'll post my favourite and fastest voicings if you like.
#4
You should be able to manage 4-on-the-floor at these tempos; practice more. Reduce your voicings to essentials (2 or 3 notes in each). Otherwise, 2 and 4 or 1 and 3 are traditional to certain styles; 2 and 4 is more so for swing, so go with that. A charleston (eighth note quarter rest eighth note) gives you more time to move and think and breathe.
#5
Quote by Nick_
You should be able to manage 4-on-the-floor at these tempos; practice more. Reduce your voicings to essentials (2 or 3 notes in each). Otherwise, 2 and 4 or 1 and 3 are traditional to certain styles; 2 and 4 is more so for swing, so go with that. A charleston (eighth note quarter rest eighth note) gives you more time to move and think and breathe.
Unless I have a full and really good rhthym section (either 2 good bassists or 1 awesome bassist, maybe another guitarist and a competent pianist), I dont really like reducing my voicings and playing rootless chords.

Unless of course it's ommiting the fifth from any chord and the ninth/eleventh from 13th chords and the ninth from 11th chords. This is always fine, I think.

My theory is this: say if you're playing a rootless am9 chord, and theres no other rhthym section, whats to stop the listener from hearing a Cmaj7? IMUO (in my unworthy opinion), you'd be playing the wrong chord.

I dunno, just making discussion (keep in mind this is my first year of jazz guitar).
#6
Quote by demonofthenight
Unless I have a full and really good rhthym section (either 2 good bassists or 1 awesome bassist, maybe another guitarist and a competent pianist), I dont really like reducing my voicings and playing rootless chords.

Unless of course it's ommiting the fifth from any chord and the ninth/eleventh from 13th chords and the ninth from 11th chords. This is always fine, I think.

My theory is this: say if you're playing a rootless am9 chord, and theres no other rhthym section, whats to stop the listener from hearing a Cmaj7? IMUO (in my unworthy opinion), you'd be playing the wrong chord.

I dunno, just making discussion (keep in mind this is my first year of jazz guitar).


... The bass player, and if present, pianist, as well as the harmonic pattern of expectation you should have built up by that time. Not to mention you'll get in the way of the bassist. I've yet to see a proper jazz guitarist use a lot of voicings that weren't rootless in a band context.

Heck, Jim Hall barely uses root chords in his duet with Ron Carter, Philip Catherine with NHOP, ... So much for a full rhythm section.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#7
check out john mclaughlin doing "cherokee" by ray noble on you tube...

yikes...
#8
Quote by demonofthenight

My theory is this: say if you're playing a rootless am9 chord, and theres no other rhthym section, whats to stop the listener from hearing a Cmaj7? IMUO (in my unworthy opinion), you'd be playing the wrong chord.


Context.

Presence of a bassist is more than enough to reduce your chords to the bare essentials. Even without one, context allows you to imply parts. Reduce, reduce, reduce.
#9
Quote by demonofthenight
Unless I have a full and really good rhthym section (either 2 good bassists or 1 awesome bassist, maybe another guitarist and a competent pianist), I dont really like reducing my voicings and playing rootless chords.
Unless of course it's ommiting the fifth from any chord and the ninth/eleventh from 13th chords and the ninth from 11th chords. This is always fine, I think.

My theory is this: say if you're playing a rootless am9 chord, and theres no other rhthym section, whats to stop the listener from hearing a Cmaj7? IMUO (in my unworthy opinion), you'd be playing the wrong chord.

I dunno, just making discussion (keep in mind this is my first year of jazz guitar).


Wat?
#10
the problem isn't the technical side of it (i.e. i can play 4-on-the-floor at high tempos), its the sound of it.

naturally at really high tempos, the speed alone makes the whole ensemble sound too "heavy", and doing straight crotchet comping (following the bass) only makes this worse.

so my question is more to the rhythmic side of things. obviously higher voicings give the playing a lighter tone, but it still feels like im just really forcing the crotchet pulse down the throat of the audience, as opposed to enhancing the ensemble rhythmically and harmonically.

thanks for all your reponses.
Quote by T.S.R.
what?
if i were a midget...id go masturbate in public because...hey, im a midget and i can get away with anything


Quote by yawn
I heard Hitler was a pretty good guitarist back in his day...


Quote by guitar?
You're a towel.
#11
lighten up your playing (don't dig so much with your pick, leave space between the notes (eighth eighth rest instead of a quarter), play 1 or 2 note voicings

4/floor should be able to avoid heaviness at just about any tempo - the real challenge is getting it to groove at slow ones.


If you're looking for some new comping ideas you might consider picking up Barry Galbraith vol. 3 (on aebersold). It's a mine of new voicings and rhythms to play with


Also, listen to jim hall here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Pz-XYLULg
#12
Quote by Nick_
lighten up your playing (don't dig so much with your pick, leave space between the notes (eighth eighth rest instead of a quarter), play 1 or 2 note voicings

4/floor should be able to avoid heaviness at just about any tempo - the real challenge is getting it to groove at slow ones.


If you're looking for some new comping ideas you might consider picking up Barry Galbraith vol. 3 (on aebersold). It's a mine of new voicings and rhythms to play with


Also, listen to jim hall here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Pz-XYLULg


Thanks for mentioning that Barry Galbraith book. I've looked into it and it's really great, just requires lots of work to get all the chord voicings from the sheet correctly. But it's a good study
#13
Yeah, lighten up your playing; the craziest guitar player i know switches to strumming with his finger at higher tempos. well, actually, he does most of the time.
Quote by corduroyEW
Cheap amps are "that bad". They suck up your tone like cocaine at Kate Moss' party.


I am Michael!
#14
Quote by yingyangthang
Wat?
Whats wrong?

Okay, maybe I have a prejudice to rootless chords because I dont think context is enough to imply a root of a chord.

ninjaEDIT: Maybe you, T/S, should play more staccato? Or possibly ignore your band co-ord and play on 2 and 4 or 1 and 3.
#15
Quote by demonofthenight
Whats wrong?

Okay, maybe I have a prejudice to rootless chords because I dont think context is enough to imply a root of a chord.

ninjaEDIT: Maybe you, T/S, should play more staccato? Or possibly ignore your band co-ord and play on 2 and 4 or 1 and 3.


It doesn't have to. The function of the chord is determined by more than just the root (a rootless dominant chord still resolves just as strongly to the tonic)
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.