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#1
Warning: Graphic Images

RIP


CLICK ME

...AND ME

This will be my first thread in a long time so I thought it would be a good one. In light of the recent news on Baby P, I would like to add that I am extremely shocked and it's probably the worst case of Child abuse that I have seen so far. Do you think the Government of the UK has done enough to protect the innocent children and where do the public authorities stand on giving negligent statements & failing to take note of fundamental issues?

Some facts of Baby P:
- A 17-month-old boy died after suffering a catalogue of injuries (50 in total) including a broken back which would have left him paralysed and 8 broken ribs. The full catalogue of injuries can be found here [warning, graphic animated pictures].
- The boyfriend may have set a rotweiller on the baby or otherwise, Baby P was bitten.
- A 17-year old girl saw Baby P being physically abused but did not say anything
- The baby looked normal (Mother, Boyfriend and third friend probably dressed up the bruises)
- The Paedtrician failed to notice that Baby P had his back broken.
- 17 pieces of clothing bore visable blood marks
- Although three defendants are over the age of 18 (middle-aged in fact), their identities are not revealed as they usually would be. This reflects the seriousness of the case.









I don't think there's anything wrong with this thread - searched, believed not suitable for any other thread etc - but if a Moderator wishes to move it or close it, by all means, do.

Obviously, this has been subject to a lot of debate already that has escelated to Parliament - click here. Personally, I believe that the government should start coughing up more money for negligence on their part rather than being reserved on the blanket immunity argument that they love so much.

17th November BBC - Watch the documentary on it
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Last edited by Harmonius at Nov 13, 2008,
#2
The doctor didn't notice the back was broken?! What medical school did he go to?! Seriously, that's disturbing...
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#3
Dude What the Fvck
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...
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#5
Every time I see a mother abusing their children in a shop it makes me want to introduce them to mah friend pain.
#6
I think the government needs to apply greater regulation on a personal level, individual checks and the like as well as more confidential report services. This is madness
#7
Quote by Aidy Damage
Every time I see a mother abusing their children in a shop it makes me want to introduce them to mah friend pain.


well what do you consider abuse??? is it spanking? because my kids know i will smack them on the bottom in a flash in public if they decide to act like jerks.
#9
Excessively loud shouting, hard spanking, dragging, kicking, throwing things, punching...
#11
Thats just horrible. Words can't describe how wrong what they did to that child is.
#12
Quote by Shred Head
This is madness


Madness? THIS IS SPARTA!!!1!!11! (sorry for that it had to be done)

But seriously WTF is up with the world?
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#13
Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
How could someone not notice all those marks in the face


Two prosecution witnesses claimed the mother and boyfriend had deliberately spread the chocolate on his face to hide bruises.
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#14
Quote by Aidy Damage
Excessively loud shouting, hard spanking, dragging, kicking, throwing things, punching...

My Mum dragged me through the shopping centre once by my hood and I turned out just fine


Seriously though R.I.P. that's disgusting
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Also you're off topic. This thread is about Reva eating snowmen.
#16
Quote by Aidy Damage
Excessively loud shouting, hard spanking, dragging, kicking, throwing things, punching...


oh ya that i agree is a bit much, my kids are angels in public...besides my son gringes at the thought of me tossing his Bokugon toys in the garbage. usually a threat like that makes him develope a bright halo over his head lol.

on the original topic, someone people seriously just need to be put to death for doing stuff like that.
#17
For some reason the clothes with the bloodstains on affected me more than the representations of his injuries.

I saw this on the news today and yesterday. I can't even process this. How these people, who were so clearly mentally imbalanced and who the authorities fucking CHECKED ON regularly, were still able to subject their baby to such horrific abuse is completely beyond me. I also saw a story today about a baby and a little boy who were stabbed to death by their mother. Devolved executives have a lot to answer for IMO. It must be awful for the person held accountable though. No one in their right mind would have wanted this to happen.

I'm in fucking tears right now and I never cry at the news.
#18
Quote by Harmonius
Personally, I believe that the government should start coughing up more money for negligence on their part rather than being reserved on the blanket immunity argument that they love so much.
Nothing will prevent all abuse.
NOTHING.

Steps to prevent abuse need to be balanced so they don't infringe on personal freedom.

Throwing money at a problem, without a comprehensive plan, is always a waste.
ALWAYS.
Meadows
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I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#19
Reading more of the story I am starting to feel sick.

"• Eight broken ribs and a broken back, with another area of bleeding around the spine at neck level.
• Numerous bruises, cuts and abrasions, including a deep tear to his left ear lobe, which had been pulled away from his head.
• Severe lacerations to the top of his head, including a large gouge which could have been caused by a dog bite.
• Blackened finger- and toenails, with several nails missing; the middle finger of his right hand was without a nail and its tip was also missing, as if it had been sliced off.
• A tear to his fraenulum, the strip of skin between the middle of the upper lip and the gum, which had partially healed.
• One of his front teeth had also been knocked out and was found in his colon. He had swallowed it."

This is quite horrifying
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Yeah but God won't touch my penis. So it's like, what choice do I have but to turn to women?
#20
Quote by Harmonius
Two prosecution witnesses claimed the mother and boyfriend had deliberately spread the chocolate on his face to hide bruises.


So they basically spread half a pound of chocolate on this face?
His whole face is a bruise!
#21
good thing obamas presi- oh wait nevermind, this is england


parliment doesnt care for child abuse?

in the US, shaking a baby can get you a year or so in prison
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Totally awesome, I love you.

Have my children.

#22
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Nothing will prevent all abuse.
NOTHING.

Steps to prevent abuse need to be balanced so they don't infringe on personal freedom.

Throwing money at a problem, without a comprehensive plan, is always a waste.
ALWAYS.


In relation to negligence claims, it seems like the government have consistenly refused to be liable for anything due to public policy reasons - floodgates to ligitation etc. The only way would to absolve the situation is to deter the situation by putting in place, a better system or face the consequences - compensation in money or offer alterantive measures (which they consistently refuse to do). There's no other way to do it. It's either the prevention of situations like this occuring or face the consequences by paying compensation or donating a vast amount of money to social causes.

I agree that there needs to be a balance (the public policy argument) but the authorities have been so consistent to rely on it all the time.
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#23
Quote by WaltTheWerewolf
well what do you consider abuse??? is it spanking? because my kids know i will smack them on the bottom in a flash in public if they decide to act like jerks.

You probably aren't fit to have a kid. In your pictures, you have beer. You smack them and say they act like jerks. It seems like you were spoiled as a kid or was beaten yourself... I'm not sure. But I think you need parenting lessons.
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Once I got out of a pool and it was like 1cm.

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#24
Quote by CoreysMonster
that baby does not look real to me

Did you read the damn article? The pictures were too graphic so they made computer generated ones so the jury wouldn't be too distraught.
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Once I got out of a pool and it was like 1cm.

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I think there are few people with a less important opinion on women than you.
#25
I really can't begind to describe how sad and angry this story makes me.

It's fucking horrible. It really is.
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#26
I hear about this story, I can't believe that he was being checked and no one noticed.

And the fact a doctor didnt know he has a broken back is f*cking ridiculous.

It was compared to this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2062590.stm

'she poured hot water over Victoria to try and stop her scratching her scalp (...) Victoria is discharged from the hospital and is collected by Kouao after her explanation for the injuries is accepted by child protection authorities. '

ACCEPTED?

Seriously?
Well whad'ya know, it's a female on UG. D:


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#27
This fucing sickens me.

I hope their identities get leaked and they get treated in prison like they treated that kid =/
#28
People like this are why I'm a misanthrope.
Catch me,
heal me,
Lift me back up to the Sun
I choose to live
#29
argh!! how does this shit happen!?!?!

we have a very similar case in nz with some horrible maori's.
a lil baby girl bout 2 was put in a dryer more than once.
they used to do wrestling moves on her.
they'd put her in cold baths and put her back in her soiled nappys.
left her on the roof of her house for more than a day and neighbours diddnt bother calling the cops.
and the traditional smacking, punching, kicking bullshite.
and a whole list of other attrocities

i wanna ask...WHAT THE **** ARE WRONG WITH SOME PEOPLE, NO, SCUM OF THE EARTH!?!?!!?!!!
#30
Quote by Harmonius
I agree that there needs to be a balance (the public policy argument) but the authorities have been so consistent to rely on it all the time.
laws and procedures can always benefit from re-evaluation. no argument here.

Quote by Harmonius
The only way would to absolve the situation is to deter the situation by putting in place, a better system
great. thoughts on what that system might be?

Quote by Harmonius
...or face the consequences - compensation in money
i don't see any good coming from this. it provides no incentive to fix this system you believe to be broken. it simply gives away money. no individuals are held accountable. no individuals feel the monetary impact. it just gets passed on to the taxpayers. governments already give away vast sums of taxpayer's monies. this won't have an impact.

the money would be better spent on studying ways to prevent this from happening. build a better system if possible.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#31
Quote by Artema
argh!! how does this shit happen!?!?!

we have a very similar case in nz with some horrible maori's.
a lil baby girl bout 2 was put in a dryer more than once.
they used to do wrestling moves on her.
they'd put her in cold baths and put her back in her soiled nappys.
left her on the roof of her house for more than a day and neighbours diddnt bother calling the cops.
and the traditional smacking, punching, kicking bullshite.
and a whole list of other attrocities

i wanna ask...WHAT THE **** ARE WRONG WITH SOME PEOPLE, NO, SCUM OF THE EARTH!?!?!!?!!!


Not to burst your bubble or anything but Baby P's case is about 10 times worse than the case you just presented. I agree - some people, it seems, just have no morals. How is that possible? It seems to bizarre.
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#32
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
laws and procedures can always benefit from re-evaluation. no argument here.

great. thoughts on what that system might be?

i don't see any good coming from this. it provides no incentive to fix this system you believe to be broken. it simply gives away money. no individuals are held accountable. no individuals feel the monetary impact. it just gets passed on to the taxpayers. governments already give away vast sums of taxpayer's monies. this won't have an impact.

the money would be better spent on studying ways to prevent this from happening. build a better system if possible.


Alright - let's turn it around.

What would you do? The government has always worked this way - compensation (despite its rarity) and trying to better the system - I cannot find another way possible to tackle it, but you seem to think there's a better solution.

EDIT: Individuals are held accountable - the wrongdoers (the defendant's themselves not those who are Ex Parte to the case). Where did you get the idea that they weren't?
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Last edited by Harmonius at Nov 13, 2008,
#33
Usually it comes down to two points - don't let the poor have children and don't let stupid people who didn't go to school have children.
When both collide in the UK - you see them on Jeremy Kyle - the human zoo.
#34
Quote by Harmonius
Not to burst your bubble or anything but Baby P's case is about 10 times worse than the case you just presented. I agree - some people, it seems, just have no morals. How is that possible? It seems to bizarre.


i wasnt trying to compete (to add fuel to the anger) and the case i put forward wasnt a full official report
just from my memory.

your right, its just to bizzare to comprehend.
the case over here is still in trial after 2 months! what a waste of time and money!
#35
Quote by Harmonius
EDIT: Individuals are held accountable - the wrongdoers (the defendant's themselves not those who are Ex Parte to the case). Where did you get the idea that they weren't?
when i said no individuals are held accountable, i meant by your suggestion that the government cough up more money. your plan to have the government pay insulates any individuals.


Quote by Harmonius
Alright - let's turn it around.
sure.


Quote by Harmonius
What would you do?
1 - assess the situation.

2 - determine if the present system itself could be at fault. if so, determine how to change the system

3 - if the present system is sound, but individuals in the government agencies acted irresponsibly, hold them accountable. not the taxpayers.


Quote by Harmonius
The government has always worked this way - compensation (despite its rarity) and trying to better the system - I cannot find another way possible to tackle it, but you seem to think there's a better solution.
not sure there is a solution. there is no way to prevent every possible instance of abuse. each occurrence needs to evaluated on it's own merits. simply giving away money won't bring this child back. and it does nothing to correct any problems the system may have or to punish any individual who did not live up to their responsibilities.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
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Quote by SK8RDUDE411
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#36
I hope someone finds out the names of the ****s who did this.
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#37
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
when i said no individuals are held accountable, i meant by your suggestion that the government cough up more money. your plan to have the government pay insulates any individuals.


sure.


1 - assess the situation.

2 - determine if the present system itself could be at fault. if so, determine how to change the system

3 - if the present system is sound, but individuals in the government agencies acted irresponsibly, hold them accountable. not the taxpayers.


not sure there is a solution. there is no way to prevent every possible instance of abuse. each occurrence needs to evaluated on it's own merits. simply giving away money won't bring this child back. and it does nothing to correct any problems the system may have or to punish any individual who did not live up to their responsibilities.


You can't hold them personally accountable because they are public authorities - therefore we, as taxpayers, have no choice. Are you suggesting you make those individuals (of the relevant public authorities) cough up millions of pounds that they do not, and will never have or are you suggesting we privatise the system so they can be made accountable? Here's a problem, if you privatise the system - thereby making it effectively easier to claim, insurers will quickly go insolvent.

Your first two points of the plan sound exactly the same as my plan but they need the resources, taxpayer's money, to fund thorough investigation. You can't escape the taxpayer's money argument because that's how public authorities work unless you privatise the system.
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#38
Quote by Harmonius
You can't hold them personally accountable because they are public authorities - therefore we, as taxpayers, have no choice. Are you suggesting you make those individuals cough up millions of pounds that they do not have or are you suggesting we privatise the system so they can be made accountable? Here's a problem, if you privatise the system - thereby making it effectively easier to claim, insurers will quickly go insolvent.

Your first two points of the plan sound exactly the same as my plan but they need the resources, taxpayer's money, to fund thorough investigation. You can't escape the taxpayer's money argument because that's how public authorities work unless you privatise the system.


My personal response would be to increase the duty of care (for example against HMRC) to the particular authority.
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#39
Quote by cagnius
My personal response would be to increase the duty of care (for example against HMRC) to the particular authority.


My point exactly. You have to make better the system and make it more draconian than it currently is. If that doesn't do the trick, you may force compensation to a greater degree, despite it comes from tax payer's money - you can't escape that argument on our funding these public authorities.

Quote by SYK
simply giving away money won't bring this child back. and it does nothing to correct any problems the system may have or to punish any individual who did not live up to their responsibilities.


Again - what else can you do? That's it.
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#40
Quote by Harmonius
My point exactly. You have to make better the system and make it more draconian than it currently is. If that doesn't do the trick, you may force compensation to a greater degree, despite it comes from tax payer's money - you can't escape that argument on our funding these public authorities.


Glad we're on the same page . I joined in the discussion late.
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