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#1
This thread is not to bitch and moan, it's just pointing out something.

I would have posted this in the thread of the straightedge band posted by MetalMessiah665, but it was closed.

There seems to be some obsession with tearing into metalcore/deathcore, their fans, and the roots of the genre itself. Hardcore? Oh, that's just chuggy straightedge flathat kids, isn't it?

Well, you bag out these bands and heavily insult the people who post about it without this knowledge. Let me educate. Remember punk? Well, these hardcore kids wanted something more extreme - hardcore punk.

Bad Brains
Black Flag
Minor Threat
Gang Green
SS Decontrol
Discharge
Cro-Mags
The Exploited

Starting in 1980 and ending in 1986 (initial wave), this was short lived, but changed extreme music forever. It stayed alive, just not big, and create the beauty of diversity around now.

Hardcore started to collaborate with metal (SS Decontrol turned metal) with bands such as Botch, the founders of metalcore, a completely different style than what we see today.

What do we have now? We have metalcore, deathcore and mathcore, all that are bagged out. But what else is there?

Emo - Listen to Rites of Spring. Compare it to The Used. The Used are not emo.

Texas is the Reason
Sunny Day Real Estate
Cap'n Jazz

Grindcore - Fast and aggressive hardcore, often with screeching. Collaborated with death metal early on to make deathgrind and brutal death metal.

Extreme Noise Terror
Napalm Death
Magrudergrind
Brutal Truth
Insect Warfare

Powerviolence - Heard of it? A comb. of hardcore, grindcore and thrash

Spazz
ACxDC
Weekend Nachos
Capitalist Casualties
Fuck on the Beach
Man Is The Bastard

Crossover - You all know this, thrash and hardcore, famous for Municipal Waste, but before then was

DRI
COC
Cryptic Slaughter
Dead Horse
Fearless Iranians From Hell

My question is - why the ignorance? Why the 'lol spinkick lol'? Why the constant obsession with bagging out anyone who mentions hardcore. I'm a regular here and started in the metal forum, and I still get shit for talking about these bands.

You flame when people don't know much about metal or the differences between thrash metal and speed metal, yet when you associate 'chug chugxchugx.x.chug' with anything to do with hardcore, we all take it as a joke?

This place is getting ignorant and not funny. Why do you have a right to take Grindcore and Crossover into the metal forum, when you deny deathcore, a genre meant to be here? Oh wait, sorry, I forgot you accept The Faceless and All Shall Perish, bands with tech death influences.


I look forward to the replies from some of the regulars on their views on the collaboration will metal and hardcore. To all of those who don't know much about this and want some recommendations, ask and I'll post a list of bands for examples.

To all those who are going to flame because of taste (although you complain about peoples ignorance towards metal), save it.

*thanks to Conservationist for help with lists
Last edited by Internal Chaos at Nov 14, 2008,
#8
dude i like the carrerrir and shit eh3h soim not lkike RAARRRARHHHH i think sum hardcore is shit but sum of its good, its just its too short andf it always sounds unfinish3d ritte but i dont het it

but ppl bag hardcore peeople out cos its funny lol
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#9
Genres are necessary, IMO. They describe music. If you wanted some metal, I could say "listen to Necrophagist, Blind Guardian, Burzum and Terrorizer" and you may like nothing there. You may say "give me some folk metal and I'd say bands such as Eluveitie, Folkearth, Moonsorrow etc and you'd get close to what you want.
#11
People most likely are ignorant about hardcore because they doesn't have any interest to dig deeper into the genre. I personally are really ignorant about the various forms of electronica because it sounds like random "blip-blop" to my ears. If I don't like the music then I don't care about it, even if it should be the bastard cousin of metal.

If these bands you are talking about produced music that appealed to the Regulars of the metal forum then they wouldn't get the abuse they do. So that's why it's easier just to say "lol spinkick!!!!1" instead of explaining why they don't like the music.
#12
Quote by Internal Chaos
Genres are necessary, IMO. They describe music. If you wanted some metal, I could say "listen to Necrophagist, Blind Guardian, Burzum and Terrorizer" and you may like nothing there. You may say "give me some folk metal and I'd say bands such as Eluveitie, Folkearth, Moonsorrow etc and you'd get close to what you want.

yeh dude if you wana call it all metal then do it but itys evolved and shit heaps so new betal bands like opeth and nuthin like old ones like sabbath so its good we dont call it all thre same
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#13
Quote by Internal Chaos
Genres are necessary, IMO. They describe music. If you wanted some metal, I could say "listen to Necrophagist, Blind Guardian, Burzum and Terrorizer" and you may like nothing there. You may say "give me some folk metal and I'd say bands such as Eluveitie, Folkearth, Moonsorrow etc and you'd get close to what you want.


yeah but folk metal is just combing two different main genres no sub genres there
sub gernes

acid
hardcore
grind
dark
doom
etc etc
#14
But come on, post here for a week. There's a difference between saying "I don't look further into electronica because it sounds the same to me" and making constant jokes about "hardcore" when it is the second biggest extreme music genre of all time.

The ignorance is just amazing.
#15
Actually that was something that was nagging at me. I don't understand why All Shall Perish and The Faceless have a thread on the Metal forum when they are not technically Metal?

I mean, if that's the case then why isn't there a Job For A Cowboy thread in the Metal forum? Why isn't there a Bring Me the Horizon (God Hades Jesus Christ Thor forbid...my god don't even get me started on these twats) thread in the Metal forum? Trivium is basically Metal now, why don't we give them a thread on here?

Why no As I Lay Dying?

You get what I'm driving at.

Internal Chaos makes a good point. The Metal forum makes a mockery of itself based on the hypocrisy of its users; mods, newbies, and regs alike. If you're going to adjudicate certain bands and not others, then what begins defining genres?

Meh.
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heal me,
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#16
Quote by Internal Chaos
But come on, post here for a week. There's a difference between saying "I don't look further into electronica because it sounds the same to me" and making constant jokes about "hardcore" when it is the second biggest extreme music genre of all time.

The ignorance is just amazing.

Well, like I said. It's easier to say "lawl spinkick!!1" then to present a good, well constructed argument on why you don't like the music.
#17
Quote by Internal Chaos
But come on, post here for a week. There's a difference between saying "I don't look further into electronica because it sounds the same to me" and making constant jokes about "hardcore" when it is the second biggest extreme music genre of all time.

The ignorance is just amazing.

but theyr jo0kes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 teyr funny they dont hate hardoar ppls
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#18
oy dude its only a fvorum, if u wnan [post in haedcore thred you can anyway in the hardcore forum duz it matter wehat forum its in cos theyrenin sepret threds anywah o its all just talkebn so do that there its all good man
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#19
Martin - well, folk metal is a combination of those two genres, so it is a subgenre. All metal is based on subgenres, its the way it is. Deal with it.

Firenze - what shits me is the BTBAM thread. What the hell? They're obviously metalcore, no matter how good they are. But the metal forum takes them because they're good?

Guitarmike - It's not the spinkick thing just by itself. It's the "we'll take a genre because its fairly metal and put it here instead of the hardcore forum and claim it as our own and then flame the hardcore converts when they state why it belongs in the hardcore forum" that is really, really annoying.
#20
i love deathcore - suicide silence, aoaa, waking the cadaver, born of osiris, all shall perish etc, but am really quite sick of the stigma which goes along with it - i love metal in all forms - meshuggah, nile, cannibal corpse, machine head, metallica etc just because i listen to deathcore, doesn't mean i'm some scene kid twat - my jeans fit, so do my tee shirts - i don't have a fringe, and if there's one thing i can't stand it's idiots fighting invisible ninja's in the moshpit. i'm very much of the opinion that 2 step is for faggots.

i don't really think i have a point here - i just like the music. if i listened to old school death metal all day every day i'd be bored as shit. besides, it's good to draw your influeneces from lots of places and just becasue i like as blood runs black, doesn't mean that i endorse the idiots that generally make up their fan-base.

i quite like the elitism of this forum tho - it makes me laugh
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#21
They're allowed here now, so a thread is in need.


That's the first line in the BTBAM thread. Who the hell decreed that they're allowed here now ?

Again, Shogun is fairly Metal. Why don't we give Trivium a thread in here? Let's move the In Flames and Children of Bodom threads to the hardcore forum, and let's swap them for Trivium and JFAC.

Hell, let's freaking put Lamb of God in here as well!

I listen to a lot of deathcore/metalcore, for exactly the reasons bikenutter stated. I don't put a genre-label on my music and stick to that. But if people are going to make claims on a very gray-area of Metal, then at least don't be hypocrites about it.
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#22
Oh my god.

Biggest BAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW since the chat thread closing.
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#24
I suppose you'd like me to thank you as well?

I don't care about the bloody music genre, I stopped giving a shit about -cores a long time ago, I'm fairly sure that there isn't a single thing there that could change whatever opinion I have of that branch of extreme music, as well as TL;DR.

So as far as I'm concerned, all that's left is you whining about a topic that has been whined about so much, that it pretty much had the effect of Lenny Bruce's black senate joke. What was once a topic of actual content is now just a couple of morons trying to grind water.

Enough with the non-sequiters: This topic is useless. Crying about it useless. Either get up on your own high horse, or whine silently.
Dyer's Eve is awesome, and has an abnormally large penis, which doesn't act as any hinderance to his everyday life despite its freakishly large size.
For unrivaled obedience, user King_ofKumbucha is awarded this spot of honor.
#25
Yeah, okay, its a waste of time, so you post telling me how much of a waste it is? Its you and the rest of your fucking elite squad that bring this forum down. Rip on chugz but when you hear someone say "um you're wrong" its time to spinkick!11.

I'm not one of the other protesters. I'm not saying "wtf kse is metal ur idiots". I'm saying "hey you guys know nothing about hardcore and you're ignorant about everything core. Here is what it is"

Read the post. How hardcore came about and the sub genres from it, and why the metal forum is a bunch of hypocritical fags.


This is merely a thread to get you guys to wake the fuck up. You're not funny. We don't make jokes about metal coming from homosexuality in the hardcore forum, and your ignorance is getting old. You can complain about people mixing up subgenres of metal when you learn what hardcore is first.

TL;DR - You didn't have to reply, I said what hardcore is, you're not funny.
#26
Oh lordy lord, he called my a hypocrite for wasting my own time! I know. If it was somehow relevant, I'd explain why it's not a waste of time for me, but it's not.

I don't care if you try to explain yourself or write english sentences without the use of one letter, it's the same thing.

Hip hip hurray, the great teacher is here! Thank you for your lessons so much, I feel soooo enlightened!
The truth is that you care too much about it, while I don't care at all. Honestly, the only reason I myself discriminate against hardcore is cause I don't feel like explaining myself with details.

As far as hypocrisy, so what? Because BTBAM are allowed here but Caliban aren't? You are of the few that care.

You're not going to change shit. Get your own high horse, and start joking about Varg Vikerenes prancing around in gay S&M attire.
Dyer's Eve is awesome, and has an abnormally large penis, which doesn't act as any hinderance to his everyday life despite its freakishly large size.
For unrivaled obedience, user King_ofKumbucha is awarded this spot of honor.
#27
I know you don't care. That's why you're wasting your time posting here.

I don't see why I am in the wrong here, and deserve the flaming. I listen to both metal and hardcore, and have been dubbed the corefag. Because I listen to straightedge hardcore?

I'm not trying to enlighten you, I'm offering information to some of the more intelligent users to read and take on board, and see some other users feedback to the thread.

And yeah, it is about BTBAM being allowed here and Caliban aren't. Why? Because you deny any of these bands even resemble metal, but when you actually like them, you take them.

Logic there? At all? Where? Enlighten me?
#28
It's really difficult to understand which -core belongs in which category, in metal, or hardcore. For example all the "Good" -core bands end up in metal and all the ones that are deemed by the elitists as "Shit" stay in hardcore. Then it goes into what defines a good -core band that belongs here.

Just because it has a "metal" album, doesn't mean that it has to have a metal thread here. I really have no idea how in the World this would work, but basically... If you introduce 1 -core band here... Then all of them have an equal place here because they're under that "Branch" of metal and the way they play is exactly the same as any "good" -core band.

There's no real definitive answer to this, but great bring it up, gave me a bit of a think.
#29
I have an easy answer I think. Either take core, or leave it. If you're gonna take a few metalcore bands, take the genre. Same with deathcore.
#30
Quote by Internal Chaos
I have an easy answer I think. Either take core, or leave it. If you're gonna take a few metalcore bands, take the genre. Same with deathcore.


Ehhhh....

I casually listen to metalcore bands, maybe only seven or eight. I only listen to one deathcore band, so...

Yeah...

Goredit: This might also be reserved for a later actual opinion.
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Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#32
Quote by Internal Chaos

I don't see why I am in the wrong here, and deserve the flaming. I listen to both metal and hardcore, and have been dubbed the corefag. Because I listen to straightedge hardcore?

When did I flame you?
You are in the wrong here because you actually give a damn. You shouldn't.

I'm not trying to enlighten you, I'm offering information to some of the more intelligent users to read and take on board, and see some other users feedback to the thread.

The more intelligent users I'd bet already are aware of this, and the other part of this forum won't even understand what's going on, and both of us know it's like that.
Again, no one cares.

And yeah, it is about BTBAM being allowed here and Caliban aren't. Why? Because you deny any of these bands even resemble metal, but when you actually like them, you take them.
Logic there? At all? Where? Enlighten me?

Of course there's logic: If a lot of people like them here, then why not?
HALT! I know what you're thinking: Why not Trivium, LoG, KSE, etc. etc.?
Because allowing them in here is more trouble than it's worth.
That, and I'd bet Bo and Greety felt like playing a little joke on us.

Bottom line: You're whining over something extremely trivial. Why?
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#33
Quote by Nafon
Yeah, but what about grindcore and all the subgenres of that?

We take grindcore, you take deathgrind. Most deathgrind is just really really really brutal death metal, and I don't think we've had a single deathgrind thread in the hardcore forum. All that scenegrind stuff will get dumped back with hardcore because its not up to metal's standards, but it's VERY -core anyway.
#34
Hardcore and Grindcore are honest, pure forms of music.


Deathcore is a pathetic attempt to disguise an extensive knowledge of lip ring types and haridresser locations by mixing in death metal parts to seem heavier. What a load of shit.

Do we really need another one of these threads? I kind of see where you're coming from TS, you seem like a pretty smart forum user, but threads like this are pretty futile if you ask me.
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0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


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#35
Dead, in many many ways, I agree with you here.

Quote by dead-fish

Of course there's logic: If a lot of people like them here, then why not?
HALT! I know what you're thinking: Why not Trivium, LoG, KSE, etc. etc.?

You have a point, because maybe there are ELEMENTS of metal that are in them, but maybe their vocals are off, or maybe they have breakdowns in them. Now if we weeded that down to every damn -core band, we wouldn't have many.

Quote by dead-fish

The more intelligent users I'd bet already are aware of this, and the other part of this forum won't even understand what's going on, and both of us know it's like that.
Again, no one cares.
Yup. I usually don't care but i'm just venting my own opinion.

Still... I agree with Internals points and your points, but just it's hard, but it's sort of over a pretty stupid issue.
#36
Quote by Stranglehold
Hardcore and Grindcore are honest, pure forms of music.

Deathcore is a pathetic attempt to disguise an extensive knowledge of lip ring types and haridresser locations by mixing in death metal parts to seem heavier. What a load of shit.

Do we really need another one of these threads? I kind of see where you're coming from TS, you seem like a pretty smart forum user, but threads like this are pretty futile if you ask me.

A lot of the death core now is very good. Whitechapel have stepped it up, and Impending Doom have really changed to add to the brutality of pretty much more aggressive death metal with the odd breakdown. But, then again, I'd look into it more because I listen to it

I know there's a lot of threads like this, but none of them seem to have fact in it, it's complaining that LoG isn't in here. I figured if I kind of tell someone what REAL hardcore is, the two forums would get along better.

Quote by dead-fish
When did I flame you?
You are in the wrong here because you actually give a damn. You shouldn't.

The more intelligent users I'd bet already are aware of this, and the other part of this forum won't even understand what's going on, and both of us know it's like that.
Again, no one cares.

Of course there's logic: If a lot of people like them here, then why not?
HALT! I know what you're thinking: Why not Trivium, LoG, KSE, etc. etc.?
Because allowing them in here is more trouble than it's worth.
That, and I'd bet Bo and Greety felt like playing a little joke on us.

Bottom line: You're whining over something extremely trivial. Why?

I am giving a shit because I use this forum to talk about the music I listen to. I've made a fair few friends here (most of which are banned now lol) and I'd like to talk to them. I admittedly don't listen to much metal now, but I still talk and if I talk about hardcore, it's in a specific context. But no, when I say hardcore, people assume I'm talking about brees and chugz. I'd like to say I'm not. To everyone here.

The more intelligent users are the people I'm asking for to respond to this, get their perspective of this new collaboration.

I'm not whining over something trivial. I'm giving them the understanding of a REAL hardcore fan, not one of these deathcore wiggers. I know this isn't metal, I don't want it to have anything to do with metal. But the fact that neither forum gets along because you guys are to ignorant and arrogant to learn is stupid.
#37
It's a forum! On the internet! In cyberspace! As in virtual reality! A place where the most basic laws of physics don't apply, if at all exist! Who cares if the 2 forums aren't getting along?

You know what, lets amp this shit up: it's not that the metal forum is too ignorant and arrogant, it's because the hardcore forum is too accepting and doesn't cull its herds! KEEP THE FAT TRIMMED, COREFAGS!
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For unrivaled obedience, user King_ofKumbucha is awarded this spot of honor.
#38
What fat? We have no fucking fat, because you guys don't know what you're doing when you decide what's core and what's not when you take crossover and grind, and then the "good" bands of metalcore and deathcore.

If you're gonna dump it all with us, let us sort out what you can have. For someone who needs to save bandwidth, you're sure taking a lot of bands.
#39
there is no such thing as deathcore

its just death metal, generally shitty dm

also, breakdowns have nothing to do with hardcore, which is a style of punk
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#40
Listen to Gorilla Biscuits? Can't deny there's some breakdowns on their ST, as well as all modern hardcore.

Deathcore is a collaboration of metalcore and death metal. Bring Me The Horizon and As Blood Runs Black are closer to the metalcore side. Do they sound like the rest of the death metal scene?

I know more of the hardcore scene is in denial of deathcore, but it happened, and it won't go away. I'm sorry.
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