#1
I'm just bored and found this video on youtube and found it interesting thought i would share it with you all. I have seen a lot of people hating on the FR on here thought you all would like to see these videos by and unbiased review of both the Kahler and FR. Post not intended to smack any FR haters it is your opinion and I respect that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1eiMZ5nUk


watch all 4 parts of the video.
IF YOUR NOT PLAYING GUITAR WTF ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR LIFE???
#2
I've seen that a while ago, pretty cool video and review of both. I love the 80's style intro music like theres going to be some sort of a big fight coming up
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#5
Those vids forgets to mention the key point: Kahlers suck. For everything. Everything they can do, FR can do better.
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#6
That looks like a Kahler X tremolo though, which is about as good as a licensed Floyd is to a Floyd. Maybe if he'd bought the higher end Tribal guitar with the real Kahler on it it would have done better lol...

I don't use chapstick or solder my ball ends and I have none of those problems on my kahler guitar. It does go out of tune on double stop bends easier than a floyd though. It's to a much lesser extent than that cheap ass kahler he's using though.
#7
how about neither with a fixed bridge
a real man's vibrato is in his hands!!!
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#8
Quote by Ismail93
how about neither with a fixed bridge
a real man's vibrato is in his hands!!!


a real man"s divebombs are in a floyd
#9
Quote by pifty
Those vids forgets to mention the key point: Kahlers suck. For everything. Everything they can do, FR can do better.

Evidently a well thought out point . I don't know whether to put a kahler or a FR on the strat im modifying, or maybe even the super v. Oh will life's problems never cease?
#10
Quote by Pac_man0123
Shouldn't have to though...

Agreed, why can't things just work without lip balm? Fire usually solves everything anyway.
#12
Quote by Ismail93
how about neither with a fixed bridge
a real man's vibrato is in his hands!!!

how bout trems are completely different than finger vibrato.
"I wanna see movies of my dreams"
#13
Quote by Ismail93
how about neither with a fixed bridge
a real man's vibrato is in his hands!!!


You're not by any chance that kid who made that video are you? cause you sure sound like him
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#14
Quote by Killedelphia19
a real man"s divebombs are in a floyd



I 100% agree floyds are not only a vibrato stuff

U can do many other stuff like dive bombs,etc and it will always keep the tunning
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#15
Quote by pifty
Those vids forgets to mention the key point: Kahlers suck. For everything. Everything they can do, FR can do better.

In general, I agree. Strat trem on steroids>>>>Bigsby on steroids... First of all, a Kahler can't A) flutter, B) Stay in tune with string bends.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#16
Quote by EmsLa
Evidently a well thought out point . I don't know whether to put a kahler or a FR on the strat im modifying, or maybe even the super v. Oh will life's problems never cease?


Quote by edusty2010
Have you even played one of the newer models? Probably not, if you're making such an arrogant comment.

Your opinion =/= fact.
You mean ignorant rather than arrogant, amirite?

And yes, it is a well thought out point - the lack of supporting evidence doesn't make it otherwise, it just makes me the kind of a person who is reluctant to state the premise of the argument unless specifically requested. And yes, I have played around with the newer models - which is not to say that anything radically changed in the Kahler since its inception.

It is my personal opinion that Kahler design sucks. Factually, it sucks for a number of reasons.

First, it's a non-locking system allegedly designed to do the job of a locking system. It doesn't lock. As a result, the string unwings and slips, and thanks to the rudimentary fixation point, the ball end moves too when you dive. As a result, tuning suffers.

Second, it has two radical friction points of the string - one being the actual cam, and another is the saddle. Cam is bad enough because the string is wrapped and unwrapped around it during the trem action, but the saddle is even worse - when you bend, the sting deforms at the saddle, and when you use trem action, the deformed string moves along creating all the more impediments for perfect return to pitch. I could add the behind-the-nut string lock of the original Kahler to the list, but these days everybody uses the actual locking nut with them so it's not an issue.

A Floyd system doesn't have these disadvantages. It locks, the only friction point is the saddle, and even that is no biggie because the string doesn't actually move back and forth along it. In addition to that, it's more simple and less expensive and retrofits to many non-floyd guitars with minimal to no modification.

One could argue other downsides of the Kahler design (such as useless degree of saddle adjustability, sustain effected by multiple contact points and the tightness of the trem assembly, price). The fact is, Kahler design, as the Floyd, has been around for many many years, and it has never achieved popularity for many good reasons related to its own pitfalls. It's just an overdesigned modernized Bigsby system with all the flaws of the device that inspired it.

Edit:
Quote by oneblackened
In general, I agree. Strat trem on steroids>>>>Bigsby on steroids...
You must have read one of my past rants on that topic.
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Last edited by pifty at Jan 2, 2009,
#17
Quote by pifty

Edit:
You must have read one of my past rants on that topic.

Yep, you know it. I do like floyds better though... I prefer them for feel alone, they feel stiffer, which I like.
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Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#18
Quote by pifty
And yes, it is a well thought out point - the lack of supporting evidence doesn't make it otherwise, it just makes me the kind of a person who is reluctant to state the premise of the argument unless specifically requested. And yes, I have played around with the newer models - which is not to say that anything radically changed in the Kahler since its inception.

It is my personal opinion that Kahler design sucks. Factually, it sucks for a number of reasons.


Obviously very reluctant! the kahler is good but it depends on what you need. i think the trems need to be looked at subjectively rather than objectively..because this argument could easily and most likely will go on forever, which I think was the point in the original video. A nice man puts a lot of effort into making a thorough review (complete with 80's fight night music) and you simply say Kahler sucks?! No wiggle room at all? For shame....
#19
I think the intro sounds like an important breaking news segment.

Was it in the video that he says that Kahler returns to correct tuning if you divebomb? I find that quite counterintuitive.
#20
Both have nothing on steinberger trems. Call me when they can change key in seconds, converts into a hardtail, or stays in tune for weeks.
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#21
Quote by CephalidHunter
Both have nothing on steinberger trems. Call me when they can change key in seconds, converts into a hardtail, or stays in tune for weeks.

Or you can get a capo, a Tremol-no, a good trem and not settle for an ugly guitar.
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#22
Quote by EmsLa
For shame....

It was a nice vid and all, but Kahler still sucks. You typically use a number of techniques on the guitar - you wank on the trem, do bends, pick gently, or strum like a motherfucker. With a Floyd, you're good to do all of that. With a Kahler, you'll end up fixing your tuning whenever you rip into your strings. To me, that constitutes a throwaway design. It's like a sportscar that doesn't steer - no matter how fast you accelerate, a Kia will pass you if you go into a ditch on every corner.

Quote by aznrockerdude
Or you can get a capo, a Tremol-no, a good trem and not settle for an ugly guitar.
Word. Steinbergers are novelty items.
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#23
Quote by aznrockerdude
Or you can get a capo, a Tremol-no, a good trem and not settle for an ugly guitar.

The superstrat steinbergers are fine as far as looks go but they dont have all the features of the uglier half V's.
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#24
Quote by Deep*Kick
The superstrat steinbergers are fine as far as looks go but they dont have all the features of the uglier half V's.

Agreed.
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#25
It was a nice vid and all, but Kahler still sucks. You typically use a number of techniques on the guitar - you wank on the trem, do bends, pick gently, or strum like a motherfucker. With a Floyd, you're good to do all of that. With a Kahler, you'll end up fixing your tuning whenever you rip into your strings. To me, that constitutes a throwaway design. It's like a sportscar that doesn't steer - no matter how fast you accelerate, a Kia will pass you if you go into a ditch on every corner.

Word. Steinbergers are novelty items.
Totally agree, it's a pain that the kahler has probs stayin in tune, but the FR is still a lot of work, but will obviously be worth it in the end. Lovin the sports car analogy btw, don't dis the Kia! Any thoughts on the Super Vee? I'm thinkin of puttin one on a strat copy I'm modifying.
#26
Quote by EmsLa
Any thoughts on the Super Vee? I'm thinkin of puttin one on a strat copy I'm modifying.
Never used one, but to quote the website, the strings are clamped from the side (not from the top as in other vibratos), maintaining a "natural" path for the strings.

The high and low E and the B the look like they're in a "natural" agony to me.

In the end, it still pivots on screws and it's still designed to dive only. Not really sure why you'd want your strings double locked in a system where you don't really need to balance the bridge. Seems a bit gimmicky, IMO.
Fender Japan Stratocaster Ibanez Pro540 Power Ibanez Pro540 Saber Ibanez 430S Ibanez S540 Charvel LSXIII w/GraphTech Ghost MIDI Parker Fly Artist Ibanez S1220 Mesa F30 Roland GR20 Roland Microcube + IBANEZ TREMS STILL SUCK!
#27
Quote by aznrockerdude
Or you can get a capo, a Tremol-no, a good trem and not settle for an ugly guitar.


Try adjusting all those things mid song. Check this video out of this guy changing tunings mid song when he plays Summer Nights from Van Halen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOZ1fuXJub8
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#29
Quote by DSOTM80
Try adjusting all those things mid song. Check this video out of this guy changing tunings mid song when he plays Summer Nights from Van Halen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOZ1fuXJub8
Maybe it's just me being crazy, but wouldn't "transposing" de-intonate you, seeing how you're playing on a slightly longer/shorter scale than what you're intonated for?
Fender Japan Stratocaster Ibanez Pro540 Power Ibanez Pro540 Saber Ibanez 430S Ibanez S540 Charvel LSXIII w/GraphTech Ghost MIDI Parker Fly Artist Ibanez S1220 Mesa F30 Roland GR20 Roland Microcube + IBANEZ TREMS STILL SUCK!
#30
Quote by pifty
Never used one, but to quote the website, the strings are clamped from the side (not from the top as in other vibratos), maintaining a "natural" path for the strings.

The high and low E and the B the look like they're in a "natural" agony to me.

In the end, it still pivots on screws and it's still designed to dive only. Not really sure why you'd want your strings double locked in a system where you don't really need to balance the bridge. Seems a bit gimmicky, IMO.

Yeah they don't look quite like they're straight do they?lol. You can set it to float tho so it's not just dives, which is y it's double locking. Obviously nowhere near a FR but a gud alternative for strats methinks. I've just ordered one anyway.
#31
Quote by guitarplaya322
how bout trems are completely different than finger vibrato.


i know
just trolling bro


and no im not the one who made the video


btw
Floyd all the way
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#32
I think the only reason that people here hate FR is because they had a bad one, badly setup one, or just didnt like the little bit of extra work involved.
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#33
A few years back a friend of mine had a charvel with a kahler, he had tuning issues and string breakage issues as well. I couldnt do much for his tuning but the string breakage we soldered the string winds at the4 ball end 1st as the breakage was happening on the bar the strings layed against just after where the ball ends were in. That was VERY time consuming then I took 10mm of wire insulation and slipped it over the ball end winds and it worked a treat. Although had to remember to take them off and not throw them away when changing strings. Gimme a Floyd any day.
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