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#1
I know Agiles are made out of solid wood, one piece. Are epiphones similar? I'm talking about the 500 or so dollar plain top lp.
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#2
no they are made from three to four different pieces of wood and most are laminated together.
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#3
I don't know if Agiles are one solid piece of wood either, large wood blanks of exotic wood are very hard to come by. I build a guitar here and there and you wouldn't believe what a chunk of Honduran mahogany goes for even the lower priced African Mahogany isn't cheap. Some cost more that a finished guitar from Epi or Agile. Most company's even Gibson uses more than one peice of wood. When they say solid mahogany it doesn't mean one piece just that it is all mahogany.
#5
Quote by Iceman 420
Nope, liquid wood. The lower end ones are gas wood.

win.
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#6
Quote by brownsfan456
I know Agiles are made out of solid wood, one piece. Are epiphones similar? I'm talking about the 500 or so dollar plain top lp.



like said, why do you think agiles are one piece?

epis are pretty much on par with agile from what i've seen and read.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#7
Quote by jj1565
like said, why do you think agiles are one piece?

epis are pretty much on par with agile from what i've seen and read.

Agiles are on the lower end are 3 piece, higher end 2 piece center jointed, mid range 2 piece (not center jointed).
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#8
I think alot of the newer epiphones have chambered bodies now, made up of an upper and lower piece with sections of them routed out.
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#9
Quote by GOLDIE93
I think alot of the newer epiphones have chambered bodies now, made up of an upper and lower piece with sections of them routed out.
Nope, they're still solid. The Joe Perry model was chambered in an 80's Gibson patern, and the Ultra and Ultra-II are almost completely hollow, but that's the point of those three guitars. The Standard, Custom and so on are all solid.

For the record, Epi Standards and Customs are made with 2-piece bodies. LP-100, Studio and lower are made with 3-piece bodies.


And for what it's worth, Agiles are made in the same factory that Epiphone used to be made in. The difference in the build quality is effectively nothing, and they're made in the same way. The reason Epiphone costs more is they get 18:1 Grovers (even Gibsons don't have those, bizarrely), locktone stopbars (Gibsons have started getting those now too), and of course the Epis use the 'real' body shape. In terms of the quality of the bodies, the fret work, the woods used etc, there isn't any difference between Epiphone, Agile, Vintage, Rally, or the lower-end and mid-range Tokai copies.
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#10
Quote by MrFlibble
Nope, they're still solid. The Joe Perry model was chambered in an 80's Gibson patern, and the Ultra and Ultra-II are almost completely hollow, but that's the point of those three guitars. The Standard, Custom and so on are all solid.

For the record, Epi Standards and Customs are made with 2-piece bodies. LP-100, Studio and lower are made with 3-piece bodies.


And for what it's worth, Agiles are made in the same factory that Epiphone used to be made in. The difference in the build quality is effectively nothing, and they're made in the same way. The reason Epiphone costs more is they get 18:1 Grovers (even Gibsons don't have those, bizarrely), locktone stopbars (Gibsons have started getting those now too), and of course the Epis use the 'real' body shape. In terms of the quality of the bodies, the fret work, the woods used etc, there isn't any difference between Epiphone, Agile, Vintage, Rally, or the lower-end and mid-range Tokai copies.

WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP SPOUTING FALSITIES ABOUT AGILES! They DO come with 18:1 grovers, the higher end ones have gotoh or tonepros hardware and a full maple top (I'm looking at you, AL3000MAP), with either a bone or tusq nut. AND they're cheaper... I don't know how they do it.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
Last edited by oneblackened at Nov 15, 2008,
#11
Quote by johnro6659
I don't know if Agiles are one solid piece of wood either, large wood blanks of exotic wood are very hard to come by. ... Most company's even Gibson uses more than one peice of wood. When they say solid mahogany it doesn't mean one piece just that it is all mahogany.


threw in some ellipses to get to my points.

I can vouch for that statement on Gibsons, I can even see the change in wood grain on the back of my headstock.

Not sure about this company you're talking about though, so I can't say anything for certain. =/
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#12
Quote by oneblackened
WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP SPOUTING FALSITIES ABOUT AGILES! They DO come with 18:1 grovers, the higher end ones have gotoh or tonepros hardware and a full maple top (I'm looking at you, AL3000MAP), with either a bone or tusq nut. AND they're cheaper... I don't know how they do it.
No, the Agiles (even the 'high end' ones) have licensed Grover copies. As such it's debateable whether the quality will give you the full 18:1 accuracy. It's been known for many licensed copy tuners to actually be cut quite poorly and you end up with tuners trying to be 18:1 but acting more like 14:1.

As for the rest of the hardware, you are correct there, the top Agiles use a tonepros bridge. It's not a locking stopbar though, which is the point.

The maple top is a moot point, Epiphone have been doing that for three years now, as do Vintage, Rally, Tokai, ESP...

Bone nuts, I would give you, except in the world of synthetic bone, there are many levels of quality. More to the point, just because the nut is made of a certain material doesn't mean it'll be any good. I've found super-Strats with graphite nuts that still had string binding issues because even though the nut was a graphite nut, it hadn't been cut properly, and that's what really counts.



If it's not clear to you yet, think of it this way: just because two restaurants both serve steak cooked in the same way, doesn't mean those two steaks are going to taste the same or that the meat will be the same quality.
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#13
^this is funny. we havent had a great epi vs agile debate since algee joined the marines.



he used to go on and on for pages about maple top thickness being an issue with agiles.

at the time some of the epis were still layered with alder core and blahblahblah.


guys, in many models, the differences seem so slight. like with all guitars, at every level, it should be a guitar by comparison. fan boy attitude is so LA-ame.

for a good laugh, look up some of the old agile vs epi threads.


anyway
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#14
Quote by GOLDIE93
I think alot of the newer epiphones have chambered bodies now, made up of an upper and lower piece with sections of them routed out.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT.

Sorry, it is only the Ultra + Ultra II that have the chambered bodies.
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#15
Quote by johnro6659
I don't know if Agiles are one solid piece of wood either, large wood blanks of exotic wood are very hard to come by.


+1, i highly doubt agiles are one piece. i'd doubt the lower end epis are either, certainly the epi lp standard i tried a while back was at least 3 pieces.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#17
^ er, plywood? chipboard?

etc.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Quote by MrFlibble
For the record, Epi Standards and Customs are made with 2-piece bodies. LP-100, Studio and lower are made with 3-piece bodies.


i tried an epi standard a while back which was at least 3 pieces (i checked)...

no idea what year it was, though.

+1 on what jenny's saying, too.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Quote by Twisted Magnum
If you can hold it, it's solid.

All wood is solid, whether it's burnt, chipped, or shredded.


go away, it's obvious we're not talking about the states of matter here.

plus your argument that, if you can hold it it's solid, is daft. i can hold water, is that solid? what about an ionic liquid? you could probably hold those (if they aren't toxic, which they might be )... or a liquid crystal... etc. etc. etc.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
As far as the maple top thing goes. I've got an Epiphone LP Standard Plus Top and the maple is maybe 0.3cm thick. Whoop-dee?
#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
go away, it's obvious we're not talking about the states of matter here.

plus your argument that, if you can hold it it's solid, is daft. i can hold water, is that solid? what about an ionic liquid? you could probably hold those (if they aren't toxic, which they might be )... or a liquid crystal... etc. etc. etc.



Non- Newtonian liquids can also be held and even stepped on, but by definition, they are not solid.

Your hand can "hold" water, but not with your palm down.

You can hold ice too, which is a form of a liquid.

#23
Quote by Twisted Magnum
Since when is wood NOT solid?


Fail thread is fail.


not sure if you're trying to be silly or not, solid has many meanings.

in these instance meaning "not hollowed out: a solid block of wood."
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#24
Quote by Twisted Magnum
You can hold ice too, which is a form of a liquid.


ice is a solid, einstein.

also, you could hold a gel, or a foam, etc. etc., which can compose mainly of liquids.

anyway, as jenny/jj1565 says, you're spamming up the thread with smart-alec comments, when clearly the threadstarter (and more to the point, the guitar industry)'s definition of "solid" wood means either not hollowed out, or not made from plywood, chipboard or similar engineered wood.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Chipboard, fiberboard, plywood and particle board are not 100% wood there is glues, chemicals, fillers and resins in it to hold it all together and make it stronger. If that was the case you could call cardboard and paper solid wood seeing they are made from wood pulp in almost the same way particle board or fiberboard is made. Most guitar companies will state the type of wood used mahogany, alder, bass, maple etc. I have had guitars that have 3 to 5 peice neck thrus with two 2 to 4 piece bodies and were called solid wood. I think some guitar companies mean the bodies are not chambered or weight relieved to me that is not solid wood if it has air pockets in it, it isn't solid. I have been inspecting more guitars while at the music shops and truthfully I haven't come across on guitar that wasn't less than two pieces of wood. I find more and more manufacturers are doing one piece tops and backs over mahogany you can't tell how many piece of wood is used for those. To me that borders on plywood there is not rule how thick or how many plies plywood consists of.

From what I understand when the onhand supply of honduran mahogany runs out there will be no more because it's a protected species of wood now. Other exotics are harder and harder to find because all the olf growth has been pretty much used up. I wonder what the guitar manufacturers will use then? Pretty soon guitars will be made like butcher block some are pretty much close to that now.
#26
^just to toss it out there. they'll list guitars as "hardwood" when they are compressed ply, particle...

solid wood, like said, not hollow.

and yeah, i never see any one piece guitars. like you said, large planks like that arent practical for use in guitars.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#27
Make sure you are talking about specific models in this debate.

The Agile 3000M is the one with the 3/4 inch maple cap, the others have 1/16 inch maple cap in the specs. I assume that epiphones with maple caps are more like 1/16 and not 3/4 inch. And I do remember something about them having alder caps, but don't know where or if that info is valid. http://www.rondomusic.com/alspec.html
#28
some epis' have 1/16" caps. the lp 100s, the g400s, studios...

as you go to ultras and plain tops and above you're find many variations in caps in thickness and wood used.

i think like any two brands, comparisons should be made from guitar to guitar.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#29
Quote by jj1565
^just to toss it out there. they'll list guitars as "hardwood" when they are compressed ply, particle...

solid wood, like said, not hollow.

and yeah, i never see any one piece guitars. like you said, large planks like that arent practical for use in guitars.


you can still get one-piece, but they're getting rarer, that's for sure. my eggles and edwards are one piece (backs, and neck)... some gibsons are one-piece too, i think, and things like PRS and other high-end makes are often one-piece...

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by jj1565


i think like any two brands, comparisons should be made from guitar to guitar.


yeah, definitely.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#31
Quote by Dave_Mc
you can still get one-piece, but they're getting rarer, that's for sure. my eggles and edwards are one piece (backs, and neck)... some gibsons are one-piece too, i think, and things like PRS and other high-end makes are often one-piece...




yeah i know you can get them, i never see them tho. i'm not a rich kid like you. ... playing your fancy schmancy guitars. :p


why dont you link a pic of one of those for us. very pretty guitars if i remember right.

Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#32
Quote by MrFlibble

For the record, Epi Standards and Customs are made with 2-piece bodies. LP-100, Studio and lower are made with 3-piece bodies.


My Epiphone Les Paul standard is a 3 piece body. Its trans blue so so can see if you look at the end under a bright light. Its three pieces for the main bulk of the body with a mahogany cap over that for the carved top with a book matched maple veneer over that for the flamed top, the back is also veneered with mahogany to hide the 3 piece body.

I guess in all fairness it could be considered a 7 piece body probably more depending on how many pieces the mahogany cap is, its hard to tell under the veneer and binding.

I'm not sure if you want to call the neck a 1 piece or not its made from what looks like one piece of wood that was cut to make a scarf joint at the nut.

EDIT: while I am thinking of it, my SG is also a 3 piece body, if you look at it from the right angle you can see the seams through the lacquer.
Last edited by Demigawd at Nov 20, 2008,
#34
Book matched means you take a single solid piece of wood and split it in half (thickness wise), then you open the two pieces like a book (side by side pages). The advantages are matching grain patterns and being able to use a smaller sized chunk of wood to get a larger area. It also is supposed to give better resonance as the consistency of the wood is the same throughout the body as opposed to laminating different pieces (with different grain patterns/densities)
Anyone who's done basic wood working knows that woods moisture content can vary. As woods dry out they can warp. The larger the single piece of wood, the greater the tendency to do this which is why Gibson's one-piece bodies are made of aged, dried wood with no moisture left in them (Which is very expensive as well). Other manufacturers get around this by laminating pieces to provide strength, stability and save money.
My Elitists are book-matched bodies, standard Epi's mutli-piece.
It's the same with necks.
Quarter-sawn solid necks are premium as they can only use a portion of the wood for this, it has to be very dry to remain straight and strong. The cheaper method is to laminate woods (Ibanez 3-ply Wizards neck for eg.) to get the strength and straightness.
Moving on.....
Last edited by KenG at Nov 20, 2008,
#35
Quote by jj1565
yeah i know you can get them, i never see them tho. i'm not a rich kid like you. ... playing your fancy schmancy guitars. :p


why dont you link a pic of one of those for us. very pretty guitars if i remember right.



haha, i have no money, i just spend it all on guitar gear... you have some pretty nice gear too

i don't think i have a pic which would show the one-piece-ness (new word)... i need to take some new pics anyway, i think i've figured out how to focus the darn thing now...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Quote by jj1565
^this is funny. we havent had a great epi vs agile debate since algee joined the marines.



he used to go on and on for pages about maple top thickness being an issue with agiles.

at the time some of the epis were still layered with alder core and blahblahblah.


guys, in many models, the differences seem so slight. like with all guitars, at every level, it should be a guitar by comparison. fan boy attitude is so LA-ame.

for a good laugh, look up some of the old agile vs epi threads.


anyway

Don't get me started, I've still got it in me. It's been a while, but I don't forget ****.
'Aim at perfection in everything, though in most things it is unattainable. However, they who aim at it, and persevere, will come much nearer to it than those whose despondency and laziness make them give it up as unattainable.'
#37
Quote by Twisted Magnum
If you can hold it, it's solid.

All wood is solid, whether it's burnt, chipped, or shredded.


Glass is infact liquid
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#38
heya algee
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
Quote by Dave_Mc
heya algee

What's going on Dave?
'Aim at perfection in everything, though in most things it is unattainable. However, they who aim at it, and persevere, will come much nearer to it than those whose despondency and laziness make them give it up as unattainable.'
#40
haha, not much as usual, you?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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