Quote by fenderbassist12
how is it stupid?

it makes sense, as god is on a different level than us, so who are we to tell if it is stupid or not. don't be so close-minded.

God either exists or does not exist, correct?
Quote by ExtremeMetalFTW
Technology has overcome many of the difficulties of being fat.

Needs are very important in correlation with wants

why eat if you don't need to?

why breathe if you don't need to?

why do anything you if you don't need to?

while wants can and often do trump needs, without a need for something it is harder to want to do something.

Which goes back to my point that very often people don't want it enough. And I don't get your whole question section.

Quote by ExtremeMetalFTW
Yes it is. Have you never heard of interventions?

That's more than "a little push and encouragement". That's your family and friends telling you to stop your destructive behavior.

Quote by ExtremeMetalFTW
well your example doesn't work here because

1. people who are addicted don't "enjoy" or "love" the drug, they need it.

2. people who are addicted need not stay addicted. many have overcome their addictions.

1. Need is not independent of love/enjoyment. You NEED to eat some form of food. Many people LOVE eating. And yet they need to. You NEED to drink, and yet many people LOVE drinking.

2. Many have. But many haven't. And that was brought on by a NEED. As I said before, people do not WANT to change enough. But when A NEED COMES, THEY NEED TO CHANGE.

And you haven't disproved me at all....
Quote by fenderbassist12
i see why he's been giving you the facepalm

He actually hasn't given me one facepalm. But his last point was stupid.
Quote by tayroar
How can he be wrong about an opinion? Changing is a lot easier than you think it is.


And opinions can be wrong if the premise is wrong.

EDIT: and AFAIK he stated his "opinion" as fact, so he can definitely be wrong, even for your standards, big guy.

Quote by tayroar
Your previous statement just saying he's wrong and implying you're right places you on a high horse.

So whenever you disagree with someone, you're on a high horse?
Quote by fenderbassist12
i saw that. but he was saying that you cannot tell whether he exists or not, because we cannot even come close to comprehend the essence of a "god". so he's not saying that a god can exists and not exist at the same time. but at the same time, with our minute knowledge of what a "god" even is, anything could be possible.

...that's stupid. And that doesn't answer the question at all.
Quote by tayroar
I just feel a need to say, and you probably don't care, but you're a cynical jackass. Have fun on your high horse.

I am cynical. But where is my high horse?
Quote by ExtremeMetalFTW
that's due to various factors. While not medically sound, being fat (not obese) is usually non-fatla just very unhealthy and cumbersome. many fat people live generally productive lives and are happy being fat, so the need to lsoe weight is not necessary. if they want to lose weight, a little push and encouragement and they can do it if they don't think they can.

It's quite possible to develop diabetes even when not obese. And being overweight makes life more difficult. Your entire body functions worse. And who said anything about need?

And no, a little push and encouragement aren't enough if the person doesn't want to change if it means giving up watching TV and eating a ton of unhealthy food.

Quote by ExtremeMetalFTW
You don't understand addiction.

They don't love it, at all. That's very rude and inconsiderate of you to say that. Addictions are extremely hard to overcome. You have no idea how difficult it is to quit. Their bodies need it because their minds are convinced that if they don't get it, they'll die, so they put the body through immense pain which can only be cured by more drugs.

I wasn't making a generalization. I was giving an example. I know exactly what it's like. And no, their bodies can become physically dependent on it too.

Quote by ExtremeMetalFTW
no it isn't.

again, they jsut don't know how to change, or even that they can change.

You're wrong.
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Sigh. You are absolutely the most close minded individual I have ever seen.

I find you unreal.
Quote by tayroar
Where are you getting this? I see people change themselves all the time. The fact that there is a large market for self help books is just proof that a lot of people are wanting to change.

There's also a large market for diet pills, foods, books, videos, and workout equipment in America while so much of the population is overweight. And getting more overweight.

People can want to change. But many do not want to ENOUGH. And that's the key. You have to be willing to undergo pain in order to change, and that isn't worth it to some.]

(the self-help thing is also part of another phenomenon that I won't get into)

EDIT: adjust=/=change
Quote by ExtremeMetalFTW
In my experience, people who don't want to change are either

1. fearful of change

2. those who don't know how

3. those who don't know they can change

4. clinically insane

You're quite wrong.

You see fat people all the time who say that they want to lose weight. Why don't they? Because they don't want to enough to put down their donuts and get on a treadmill.

Drug addicts whose lives are ****ed up, but they love their meth/cocaine/etc. too much to give it up. They enjoy it and do not want to stop. (not getting into people who can't stop even when they try)

It's quite ubiquitous where people do not change because they don't want to enough. Seek medical help.
Quote by tayroar
I would disagree with that. If a person wants to change they'll actually change, look at people who've come out of drug rehabilitation programs successfully, completely different person than before. This happens often, when a person is unhappy with their life style. This is why chemical castration won't work if it's mandated.

People rarely want to change enough to actually change.
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Not being open to other possibilities is stupid.

Being convicted/going to prison takes away the right to own property for the time served. Rofl.

Anyway - taking away the persons' right to reproduce is a human rights violation, but I'm not sure if I want to introduce an individual back into society who has raped children. Just saying.


I seem to be missing the humor....

And how about life in prison?
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Ever heard of enforcing law? That takes away the person's right to act within their own means. They get sentenced to jail time. Don't tell me you don't believe in law and order now?
And yes, thinking you are correct no matter what is absolutely idiotic. Of course you wouldn't know though.

No. Enforcing law is NOT taking away someone else's "right to act within their own means" because that is not a right. It is a privilege that can get taken away under the right circumstances. Living in a society comes with benefits and understandings.

And the second part was so idiotic, I lol'd. You just added the "no matter what" part. It wasn't there before. Thinking you're right all the time isn't idiotic/ignorant, because usually people think they are right. But then, because you realized your point was idiotic, you added "no matter what" to try and make me look dumb.
Quote by Z_cup_boy
Thinking you are correct all the time = stupidity and ignorance.

No it isn't....

Quote by Z_cup_boy
I can't feel sympathy for paedophiles. Now if this were physical castration that'd be different. Making them sterile/reducing their libido will prevent the further problem of this occurring. Once you consciously infringe upon another persons' rights, I think your own should be taken away, and this is a justified punishment.

Really? And to what degree would this apply? If someone harasses someone else, they are infringing on their rights. Should their rights be taken away?
Quote by Tango616
All those that Do not care say I.

y u gotta b hater yo?

425 lbs.
Size 13 show
Wow, TS and player are same person! Hmm....
What? Did you dress in a thong and go around licking people? I know it has something to do with "flamer" but I can't figure out what.... Grrrr.
Quote by dark&broken

*quietly hopes mamosa didn't notice the first bit of quoted post...*

*totally noticed but doesn't know how to see said pics because he deleted his facebook so law schools wouldn't not admit him because of all the stupid things on it and because he wasted so much time on it*
Bet it sounds terrible...

Quote by dark&broken
Call me a moron, but I'm completely failing to tell whether this is supposed to support, or go against what I said, and really in general what the hell you're trying to say with this

I don't know
I just saw words like "sane", "minority", etc. and had to use it.

It supports what you said. Minority opinions aren't necessarily wrong.
Quote by ZanasCross
^to mamosa: because 90% of what you HAVE posted in here is spam; and other people were spamming and you are a name i usually associate with spam.

Yeah, because that makes sense

You know, the designers of this site added something useful to the forums. It DISPLAYS THE USERNAME ON THE LEFT (<-----) OF THE POST, ALLOWING YOU TO SEE WHO POSTED THE COMMENT.
Quote by dark&broken

Are you implying I'm an avid flamer?

Not that I needed to, Devon took care of it

awww shucks! *kicks dirt*

And I'm not implying anything.


Quote by dark&broken
It's a decent enough analogy, except that the father is not responsible for how his child thinks. God is. God made us how we are. You can say he gave us free will, but God still made us curious, and essentially gave us all our little personality quirks. I would think God would've clued in to the fact that telling very curious creatures that they're not allowed to eat something would only heighten their curiosity, thus making it even more likely that they'd go for it.
And as for the association of knowledge and sin, fair enough, but you directly related knowledge and danger. It's that kind of attitude, that any knowledge beyond what God gave us, is dangerous and shouldn't be trusted, that essentially kept most of the population basically retarded during the Middle Ages.
I seem to be going back to him a lot lately, but Galileo said it best : "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

I have another issue with it; the son gets a reasonable consequence that results from his "sin" as opposed to eternal damnation....

Quote by dark&broken
Yeah, because the majority opinion is always right
An idea is only considered insane so long as those who propose it make up a minority. That has no bearing whatsoever on the ideas actual insanity though.


"Sanity is not statistical." -George Orwell
Quote by Dreadnought
What? No, I'm saying that such a creature as a God would be past black-and-white human terms of strictly "existing" or "not existing" and, since we have no concept or interaction with anything approaching the essence of what it would mean to be God, we can't really use such a simple statement as "it exists or it doesn't" doesn't quite... cut it.

This doesn't answer the question. Whether we understand it or not, something either exists or it doesn't.

I'll let Vornik's rage-filled comments finish this argument. I'm getting sleep for the first time in a long time
Quote by ZanasCross
This thread has become annoying. Ganoosh and Mamosa; I've tried to be lenient... but seriously if you guys don't cut back on using it as a personal chat thread I'm just going to ban you. Sure, you can bull****... but constant back and forth bantering about nothing is just annoying and makes it so it doesn't bring the community together anymore.

I have no problem with you guys outside that, don't take it personally... I just hate coming in this thread anymore because I know its just going to be you two (and a bit of greyeyedfire) bantering about nothingness and really making so any 'actual' posts in here are ignored.

I'm going to break my not-having-posted-for-four-pages-streak-because-I-didn't-have-anything-valuable-to-say to defend myself. As you obviously have not noticed... I have not been posting here for a while; just lurking. I stopped spamming. I was NOT involved in the chocolate milk/cheese bull**** and have not posted here AT ALL for days.

So what exactly is your beef? That in the past I posted spam comments?? Seriously??? Bringing it up now that I haven't posted ANYTHING for days doesn't make any sense at all!
Quote by Dreadnought
Oh well of course, but my point was that holding such a strong belief is just as detrimental as someone holding such a strong belief that there IS a God, it's just the other side of a seesaw.

I get your point. But you were saying that believing your opinion is the absolute truth is ignorant, and I was saying that rarely do people think their opinion is the absolute truth. They think that based on their current understanding of the world and the current evidence, the truth would seem to lie with them.

Quote by Dreadnought
Care to? Pfft, I flat out DO

C'mon. You're just being annoying now.
Quote by Ur all $h1t
You can hold whatever opinions you like.
I'll stick with the science though, thanks.

Oddly enough, people can be shown that things are wrong, there are a number of reform techniques that have proven successful and an entire field of science devoted to using them and discovering more.

People can be, of course, but I'm wondering how often that happens, as opposed to people just not wanting to go back to jail. If you know, that would be marvelous. But I think that deterrence occurs more than reform.
Quote by Dreadnought
When it comes to religion, flat-out stating that atheism is "the truth" is genuinely closeminded.

I'd just like to point out that usually when people make those comments, they come under the premise that it's under their current understanding of things.
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Jail frequently reforms people, particularly when time and effort is put into it, rather than being put into ridiculous forced castration programmes that are purely populist.

An interesting question for me, though, is if it's reform or deterrence. See, I have this opinion that people rarely change, and though they may adjust to the situation so as not to be maladaptive, rarely do people REALLY, REALLY change.

Now, especially in a situation where you're dealing with someone from NAMBLA, who thinks what he's doing is right, people can just feel wronged or misunderstood. Which won't lead to reform.
Quote by dudetheman
Thanks for that.


Quote by dudetheman
I never said that all pedophiles rape children. They, in fact, do not all rape children.

Correct. But you said, "Why do they rape children? Because they're sexually attracted to them."

Quote by dudetheman
Thanks for letting us all know, Cpt. Obvious.

Just 'cos you're annoying like that, *reported*

Quote by dudetheman
Unrelated comment is unrelated.

No. I had an impulse. I was sexually attracted to a teacher of mine. But I didn't act on it. Because I have self control. Same with a pedophile.

Quote by dudetheman
How so?

Rape is rape; the victim of rape is only determined by sexual preference, meaning that the Polish government, in castrating these individuals, is discriminating against them based on their sexual preference.

Nope. Rape is NOT always rape. There are tons of cases where rapists are wrongfully convicted. Why? Because women are believed when they call "rape!" Even if they are liars. But someone ****ing a child, there is no scenario in which that is not rape.

Quote by dudetheman
Then congratulations, you don't fully understand the purpose of a correctional facility OR what chemical castration does to a person.

The congratulations, you don't fully understand what rape does to a person.

Quote by dudetheman
No, prison is a means by which criminals are meant to be reformed into respectable citizens suitable for society.

Not castrated.

Um, not 100% true. Jail does many things:

1. deters crimes
2. keeps criminals from offending

Rarely does jail reform.
Quote by dudetheman
And why do you think they raped children?

Probably because they're sexually attracted to children.

If they're going to castrate all people who rape children then they have to castrate all people who rape men, women, animals and inanimate objects.

Either way, castrating a person as repercussion for any crime is cruel and unusual punishment.

You're an idiot. Not all pedophiles rape children. Only the sick, ****ed up ones do. Acting on an impulse that you have does not cleanse you of your ****ed up ****. Just because I was attracted to my teacher, does that mean I should have raped her? No! I didn't. Why? Because I'm not that ****ed up.

And no.... Rape of an adult is different from rape of a child. You're making an idiotic logical leap.

Will Andre risk flaming a mod? Find out in the next installment....


Srsly. Plus, and I think they stopped making them, Jolly Rancher chews are
Quote by dudetheman
This is so fucked up....

How can they do this to people?

Sure, they may be pedophiles but still, it's ridiculous. They're castrating these criminals based on their sexual preference. They're castrating them because THEY RAPED CHILDREN!
Quote by Ur all $h1t
If someone isn't reformed then why would they be released?
All you're creating here is a false dichotomy. The choice is not between allowing paedophiles to roam the streets and chemically castrating them.

True. I was just giving an example where I would be 100% willing.