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Quote by cho0onger
"But I'm thinking you're even more dumb for saying something doesn't exist when you can't disprove it."



Yeah, as has already been said in this thread, your friend is shifting the burden of proof.

Quote by Ignite
You're both equally dumb. Believe OR disbelieving in something that you can't prove exists is stupid.

The correct answer should be: I don't even give a fuck because I can't prove or disprove anything.


Not giving a fuck is awesome.



I'm pretty sure you're not serious, but I'd still like to reply to the idea anyway.

Someone can not make a call on whether or not something exists, but in not making a call they lack an active belief in it's existence, therefore they fall into the category of lacking belief.

By saying that I am an atheist I am not saying I reject these ideas forever and always, I am saying that with the information I have, the most logical position to take is disbelief. Even if the entity does exist, there is no logical connection to it, therefore it is not logical to believe in it.
I was just reading about how he's trying to use his political power to get ethics classes out of school. What a bane on our civilisation that guy is.
Bill Hicks. Skip to about 3:30 and listen to the rest of the song. So amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzgABxxKDj8

And Steve Martin rocks the banjo.
I would say that the Old Testament is racist, aswell as many, many other awful things. But I wouldn't say Jewish people themselves are racist, just manily the hardcore conservative ones.

Also, Doug Stanhope - **** The Jews
Quote by offspring_punk
I don't need to gratify myself over the internet at all. I'm just giving my opinion on a subject and defending it when others attack it. I was only using myself as an example because it's the closest way to relate. I've been there before. I wanted to hurt myself and then realized how dumb it was. People can change. They just have to want it. The human mind is amazingly capable of a lot of things.



People arn't endorsing suicide here. We know perceptions can change, and we, or atleast I, can comprehend how beautiful some elements and experiences in life are.

It's just alot more complicated than what you're making it out to be. You need to work on comprehending empathy. And I don't mean thinking "What would I do in that situaution?", I mean /trying/ to understand what a perspective would be like to someone else, especially one that is very different from yours. And I say trying because arguably it cannot be achieved.
Quote by offspring_punk
Yeah, I'm more pathetic than the person who takes their own life because they can't deal. That makes perfect sense to me. I've had plenty of struggles in my life and many chances to just give up. I didn't. They don't have to either. Suicide is no better than murder. Do you feel empathy for someone who murders people because they "have to"?



Just... just stop, dude. I really can't be bothered typing a response to you, so I'll just c/p this.

L says (10:50 PM):
There seems to be alot of hatred and condemnation towards people who kill themselves.
D says (10:51 PM):
Yeah. Many people are too dumb to understand mental illness.
The idea that not everybody's brains work the same is a bit much for some.
L says (10:54 PM):
Mhm. Plus the idea of free will.
L says (10:55 PM):
And even if they arn't what you'd call mentally ill.
L says (10:56 PM):
Everyone has had different experiences, different ways of thinking and rationalizing.
The idea that "Well I can live my life, why can't YOU? Weakling!" is completley blind to that.
L says (10:57 PM):
And that's a very egotistical way of thinking, of trying to understand. Feeling superior to suicidal people as way of furthering your ego is pretty low.
Quote by offspring_punk
Yeah and the reason that they live those miserable lives is because they let it get that way. There's ALWAYS something you can do. Most people just don't want to do it because it's hard. If you can't get through life without the support of drugs and alcohol then you are just flat out pathetic and weak. Get out, start over somewhere, DO something. Don't just sit there being miserable letting things get worse and worse.



You don't understand what you're talking about.
Quote by reidhasguitar
I love the smug feeling I get when I laugh at a joke in NV about 1/2 and no-one gets it.






Care to share a few?
Quote by Alex Vik
Just reminding all of you (except UraniYum >_> and PS3 users) that Honest Hearts is coming out tomorrow.

On an unrelated note, I think I've actually been to the Calvert Mansion. I didn't recognize it at first.



Ahh, when the hell is tomorrow in America? It's 7:30PM May 17th in Australia and I want to know when it's going to be on live.

Quote by Colgate Total
If you install the game on you HD, the load times are cut down dramatically.


This.

Also, love Doug Stanhope.
Quote by Deliriumbassist
I was in London on 7/7. If I missed the train I got, I would have been on one of the bombed ones. You tend to think more cautiously when you've been that close, and that day they proved how resourceful and competent they can be.



I'm not intending to be disrespectful to anyone killed or affected by the disgusting attacks, I'm just saying that they statistically arn't much of a threat, atleast as I understand it.

I don't agree with the whole "Islam is totally evil" sentiment of the video, just as a clarification, but from 2:00 to 3:00 is what I'm trying to say.
Quote by Deliriumbassist
^ The problem I have with your initial statement is that it is widely believed that, for the last few years, bin Laden was more a figurehead, whilst Ayman al-Zawahiri was the operational head and leader of al-Qaeda. I don't think a retaliatory attack will be as crippled due to emotional charge if it's masterminded by al-Zawahiri.



Ah, fair enough then. Still, I doubt that there's going to be any significant attack, as I don't think they're resourceful or competent enough.
Quote by Zero-Hartman
Fucking A. My bedroom's just full of Pork'n'Beans, scrap metal, .308 ammunition and has a Tunnel Snakes jacket

I honestly do have about 5 pint glasses full of bottlecaps though






I've already been talking about this on facebook, I'm just copy/pasting what I've already said on here, so if it sounds like I'm responding to a point no one has made that's why.


-people panicking about retaliation-

Me: Well everything that's been said including what I'm about to say is speculation, but I doubt that there's going to be much of a retaliation. Osama was the so called "mastermind" or plotter of the attacks, and being the leader of the organisation any reactionary attacks will be emotionally charged (thus lack of control) and hastily planned out.

People exaggerate the power of terrorists. While the concept may be scary all they really achieve is the occasional carrying out of suicide attacks on groups of unsuspecting civilians, most of which fail before they're even attempted.

Obama said in his speech he authorised the hunting down of Osama because he was the head of the organisation, and I think that's reasonable.

Guy 1: theres still thousands of the nutcases that want to step up into his place though, and there definatly gonna do something

Guy 2: I don't mind that he is head but none of this would over eve happen if America were not a greedy nation

Me: @ Guy 1. Well thousands might be pushing it, but there are definitely many people who will want to step into his position. As I already explained though, if they're stupid enough to try something and it actually works, the affect on the world scale will be practically nil. 9/11 was only such a massive success by mistake, they never actually planned for the towers to collapse.

@ Guy 2. Ehhh, it's a bit more convoluted than that, responding to the statement "America is a greedy nation". I'm the last guy to support the invasions into the Middle East but that's largely the responsibility of select politicians and not America as a whole. There are plenty of people in America who find these actions abhorrent and even more who are completely ignorant of them, much like any other country.
But yeah, through his nationalistic perception he thought he was doing the right thing. No one is knowingly evil, actions of the individual are always justified inside the individuals head. I wouldn't say that everything would have been peachy had America never bombed the Middle East, it's more along the lines of diverse individuals from different cultures clashing into one anothers beliefs and perceptions.


Sorry for the laziness but I felt like contributing and I'm reeeeeeeeally tired right now.
Quote by Zoot Allures
Alright, but it's not important really anyway, the important thing is how many people have ended up dying from this, 'legally' or not.

This is kind of relevant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IgOVOPLTYI



Yes and (not meaning to sound frustrated, because I'm not, it's just hard to deliver that through text) as I said before, I think we'll find each other agreeing more often than not. I already agree with the concerns expressed through the video. I'm far more humanistically inclined than nationally inclined, if I'm nationally inclined at all really. I just didn't agree with what I felt was your dismissal and smear toward the military as a concept.

Thanks for the video anyway, I love TED talks and sociology is always interesting.
Quote by Zoot Allures
I'll give you that the millitary is a necessary institution (or something similar anyway but yeah) , but i'm only really condemning those in it who do the bad stuff, i can't agree with state sponsored death and that's what the current situation really is, even if you agree with the invasion of the middle east you need to realise how many innocent people have died.

I guess me and you have different opinions on that so i don't want to derail this thread into a debate about the war, but that last part is the important point.



Whoa, I didn't mean I agreed with the occupation of the Middle East. Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant was I agree with staying in Afganistan until they can protect themselves from the Taliban, if possible.
Quote by Zoot Allures
People in authority can often become power crazed or similar (i made a similar post to this the other day when someone thought i was just hating on the police which wasn't the case).


Sure, but that's hardly an argument against the military as institution. As someone already said, they are trained to be disciplined. And even so the military is a necessary institution.

Quote by Zoot Allures
The main problem i have with the millitary is simple, i don't like needless killing and violence and doing these things are a part of a job does not make them any less wrong.


And I'm sure that everyone in this thread would agree with that problem, but it isn't a very solid argument against the entire military as an institution. You can condemn acts, you can condemn orders, and I'll probably find myself agreeing with you more often than not, but to disregard the military altogether is too simplistic.

Quote by Zoot Allures
It deserves a response because it's clearly something that does happen and i don't see how , at least in the current situations, it is justified. The millitary aid stuff is fine, the millitary being sent to kill people and take places over by force in order to expand western influence in the middle east and gain strategic or economic ground is not justified.


The key word in my post was the word 'all', meaning that people who think that is 'all' the military do don't deserve a response, and judging by how you start your second sentence you're not one of them.

Theoretically I support the war in Afganistan insofar as the expressed goal is to set up a country/military that can defend itself from the Taliban. Whether or not that's a practical possibility I'm not sure, but the point is that the situation is too convoluted to simply smear the military in it's entirety, and indeed, as an entire concept.

Judging from other posts I've seen from you around here you seem to be reasonably intelligent and well meaning, but on this I think you're being too idealistic and not analytical enough, and through these disconnects the debate just dissolves into a bitter quarrel with an us vs them mentality.

Not to thrust all of the blame onto you though, Dreadnought is definitely playing a role too.

Quote by Lemoninfluence
I was more on about the likes of dreadnought who seems to relish Manning's abuse as some sort of sick revenge for selling him and his friends out.


Which is sadistic, intentionally provocative, and contributes nothing to the progression of the conversation in my opinion.
Quote by Jackal58
Bradley Manning violated the trust of his brothers in arms. The US government violated the trust of the American peoples in their treatment of him. I hate him I hate the treatment he has received.



But the criticisms on here for Bradley Manning seem to be along the lines of "He breached the system, therefore he is in the wrong"

Quote by Lemoninfluence
I've said this before Jackal but maybe he felt like the US government broke the trust first.


Exactly. I don't have a strong stance either way on this, but you can't just condemn anyone who breaches the system.

The whole thing is very mucky, you idealisitcally can't have soliders leaking information however they please, but there are circumstances where leaking information is the moral action to take, and Bradley Manning is arguably one of these cases.


And to the people claiming that all the military do is unethically kill/ military aid isn't sincere, yeah, no. I don't really think that deserves much of a response.

And to the whole 'dicks' thing, I know multiple people in the military, and am good friends with two of them. I also know a bunch of others are what could be described as dicks. Considering that what makes us us is our biological make up and the information we recieve while we're alive, you're inevitably going to get many different people with different ways of behaving, thinking, contraditory viewpoints etc. And through that you wind up with massive diversity in individuals. The idea of the military may superficially attract a bunch of macho assholes only interested in being brutish, but to throw slurs at the military as a whole is as simplistic as slurring any other group of people.
Quote by Jackal58
Go kiss a wombat.





I have a question for Dreadnought, and I guess for you too if you if you want to answer. What kind of information would you approve of being leaked? I understand that in order to have stability you need a system, but breaching the system isn't necessarily an automatic moral wrong, there are plenty of circumstances to consider. If you've already answered this question before I apologise, I haven't been on UG in awhile, but I remember the last time I was lurking regularly I read parts of these arguments every day.


Whether or not Bradley Manning is in the wrong, I do think Dreadnought is being a bit eager, harsh and provocative with alot of his posts. Zoot is too, though, just in the different direction.

And now hopefully I haven't made enemies with both sides. >_>
Everyone should totally watch all of these clips:
Quote by mizxou
you dont need drugs to get high, the chemicals exist within you, you just have to know how to activate them


That sounds like some pretty serious drug talk right there...
Patriotism! Being an inconsistent and self interested annoyance since forever!
Hey man. I heard a rumour that you have some really good drugs?
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I still like the idea of a snow covered wasteland.



So do I. I remember wandering around near Jacobstown and thinking about how much I would like an area covered in snow.


But what I think Fallout really needs is a weather system, something like in Red Dead Redemption. The thunderstorms in that game were beautiful, and I think that having thunderstorms in the wastes would be amazing.
I'm playing on Hardcore mode and I'm a bit of a hoarder, so the Pack Rat perk saved my life. As soon as I chose it almost all my weight was halved.
That was awesome. The channel has tonnes of these, I liked this one in particular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk7UUzxKV54

The chorus isn't actually that bad, and I'm not even a fan of metal.
I saw this thread a few days ago and it got me playing Fallout: New Vegas again for a second playthrough and man, do I not regret it. I'm enjoying it so much, I can't believe I forgot how amazing this game is. So immersive. The setting is wonderful, I can wander for hours, although I try not to because if I play it in bites I tend to enjoy it more.

I'm up to The Kings now and just doing small quests around Freeside and I'll be going to Jacobstown next to get Rex fixed. I haven't even entered Vegas yet except to get some guys hat for the twins that run the Atomic Wrangler.

I'm hoping to finish it with every available slide being shown and having the best (imo) outcome.

Quote by DegaDeth
Completed Vault 11 last night. What a mind-****


That's one of my favourite stories from Fallout. They should totally turn it into a Twilight Zone episode or something.
Quote by JamSessionFreak
last night I was checking out the Pit on my phone, found slender man, googled him, watched some videos. it was preety interesting and preety scary
today i watched this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmZ90VijO_0
and can't stop laughing. Guy yelling at cats 1, Slender Man 0
if you hadn't watched the "guy yelling at his cats" video, its best if you watch it before watching the one above. here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hddCpJ8MfVo



Quote by DempseyPunk
hurr religion



+1
That was a nice video. Thanks for sharing.
The Black Keys, Mumford & Sons, The Strokes, Explosions In The Sky, Deerhunter, The Black Angels, Band Of Skulls, all playing the same festival?! Where? Where?!

T... Tennessee? Oh **** Tennessee!
Bill Hicks
George Carlin
Doug Stanhope
Louis CK
Lewis Black
Eddie Izzard
Quote by whalepudding
I love David Firth, and I don't think Salad Fingers is even close to being his best stuff. Everyone should watch everything he's done.


I agree. Especially A Black And White Cartoon About Roof Tiling and That Child Smelt Funny.
Quote by Altered_Carbon

There once was a pundit called bill
Who was e-mailed by scientists thrilled
To hear what they'd said
Turned up on it's head
And questioned in fallacies shrill



I love how the comments are disabled on all his videos, and he's getting ****ed on the ratings system. 239 likes to 7,024 dislikes. ^_^
These were shown to me by a friend, and I searched here and found nothing.

For those who have been keeping up with the Wikileaks news, you simply need to see these:

Rap News 5: Wikileaks & the war on journalism (ft. Julian Assange)

Rap News 6 - Wikileaks' Cablegate: the truth is out there
The unexamined life is not worth living. - Socrates

A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be. - Albert Einstein

A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true. - Socrates

Most people would rather die than think, and most do. - Bertrand Russell

The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the supression of ideas. - Carl Sagan

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers from the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and cull the living flower. - Karl Marx

As far as I'm concerned, I prefer silent vice to ostentatious virtue. - Albert Einstein

Beware the barrenness of a busy life. - Socrates

The mind is a cruel, lying, unreliable bastard that can't be trusted with even an ounce of responsibility. If you were dating the mind, all your friends would take you aside, and tell you that you can really do better, and being alone isn't all that bad, anyway. If you hired the mind as a babysitter, you would come home to find all but one of your children in critical condition, and the remaining one crowned 'King of the Pit'. - Lore Sjoberg

I do not think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday. - Abraham Lincoln

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. - Gerry Spence

Write on my gravestone: 'Infidel, Traitor.' - infidel to every church that compromises with wrong; traitor to every government that oppresses the people. - Wendell Phillips

You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Truth is so rare that it is delightful to tell it. - Emily Dickinson

If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits? For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively outnumbers the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. - Richard Dawkins