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Quote by sickman411
^That restricts you to scale patterns though. Or scales anyway.




Not really. Knowing a pattern doesn't restrict you from playing outside of it.

Quote by cdgraves
This concept of scales is why guitarists get stuck playing the same patterns over and over


scales are a fundamental aspect of music. It's inaccurate to imply that visualizing them is THE reason that guitarists "get stuck playing the same patterns over and over". I would blame things like, laziness, complacency, a lack of practice time, a small to nonexistent repertoire, poor listening skills, and a lack of fundamentals, before I would blame the visualization of fundamental concepts like scales.

The ability to visualize the pattern is helpful. You can see the intervals, you can see the relationships.
Quote by Sean0913
I think minor Seconds and Tritones are a large part of it. They really epitomize the dissonance elements. Take a standard thing that sounds good, and vary that good note by shifting it a half step away in either direction. These are all hallmark "moves" of this genre.

Best,

Sean


^ That's a great way to describe it IMO.
Quote by cdgraves
no, you should just learn the 12 major scales. They are the basis of literally every other scale.

It's like asking what words you should learn how to spell, when you should just learn the alphabet.


Well, there is only 1 Major scale. You can play it in 12 keys, but you don't have to learn all 12 before bringing other scales into it.
Quote by Elintasokas
The chances to make a unique chord progression that sounds good is much less than making a unique melody. In tonal music, chords usually only go to a few places while in a melody your possibilities are nearly infinite. There are thousands of songs that go I - IV - V for example, but you see the same melodies way less frequently.



your never going to convince him. He doesn't even have a point really. He's just trying to keep an argument going. I think they refer to that as TROLLING.
Quote by willT08
Hey guys

I'm bored of writing my own music so I was wondering if you could help me. I've been listening to stuff like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fffHfyie9tw

and I know it's made up of Brian Eno samples but I can't find anything cool to use so i was hoping maybe you guys would have some ideas about who's music to steal? Also, making up drumbeats just seems really long winded and pointless when there's loads of loops around - do any of you know where i could get some?



LOL, nice troll attempt.

Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) yeah

(b) also yeah. barre chords are handy for getting a lot of chords for mimimal effort



There also necessary if you want to play anything beyond the 1st few frets.
Quote by Dave_Mc
that doesn't mean you can't memorise the most usual chord shapes, too- even people who understand the theory probably know how to play an open G major chord or whatever, they aren't (well, I'm not ) working it out from first principles or anything like that.

well, yeah…. you don't want to have to calculate the theory in the middle of playing a song. Having all those chord shapes under your fingers, and their sounds in your ears comes in pretty handy.


Quote by tyawesome1
how do you memorize chord notes? a minor is a c e but the notes that you play appear a e a c e open a minor


It takes work. Look at some chords you know…. figure out what the notes are. For example, If you know how to construct say an Am chord, you'll know it's ACE…. now look at your chord shapes and ask yourself which note is this? A ? C? or E?

You could also learn the arpeggio shapes and learn to make the connection between that and the chords.

If you read music, and read chords often, that helps as well.

Quote by Elintasokas
I think you should memorize at least the basic shapes


+1 though I'd say start with a few and build as you go. Just like scales, you don't want to try and memorize a hundred different patterns….. learn a few…. use em….. learn some more.
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Guys, please...

I still don't understand why you couldn't ask about songwriting/part writing. It's the same as if you said people shouldn't go to guitar lessons and you should learn guitar on your own. The thing is, you learn from other people. And it helps if somebody explains to you what's happening. Songwriting is also a skill.

If somebody tells you how people usually write rhythm guitar parts, why does it matter? I mean, you would get the same results by analyzing many songs by yourself. Now there's somebody to tell you about it. It's the same as learning to play. Yes, you could figure it all out by yourself but it helps if there's somebody correcting your technique (if you are doing something wrong). You would figure out that what you were doing was not good technique on your own a bit later ut if somebody tells you about it now, you'll realize it now and don't need to waste your time. I'm not saying that listening to music is wasting your time of course. But I don't understand why you couldn't ask about songwriting. It is a skill that you learn. Everything can be taught.


I'm not saying you shouldn't ask about it, study it, or practice it. I'm suggesting that if you do enough of that before you join a band and start writing songs, you'll have the experience and skills to come up with your own ideas. You'll be playing notes/chords that you choose because you think they sound right for your song, and not simply because some random person online said it would be cool.
Quote by willT08
Which are just samples. So he might as well just do it himself of the one he likes


This confuses you, yet you're calling me dumb?

I suggest you learn the difference between licensed samples that you pay for you so you can use them how you want, and taking someone else's work and calling it your own.

Quote by willT08


You got a sound you like with minimal effort! OH NOESSSSSSSSSS


Exactly. minimal to zero effort by you, but plenty of work for the person you stole it from.


Quote by willT08

Except you because you suck


u r literally so dumb



This kind of thing is really uncalled for. I haven't called you any names.


Quote by MapOfYourHead
Someone could spend hours trying to achieve a sound using a VST but the sound you want was recorded on some specific record made in '58. I don't see anything wrong with using someone else’s sound to create something new and unheard. .



Sure it takes more effort to do your own work.

That specific track that you love so much was the result of someone else time, money and effort. The fact that you just have to use it, shows it's value….. yet you'll just take it for free, and then convince yourself you came up with something original, just because you clicked a couple of times in your daw.
Quote by MapOfYourHead
The sound is nothing more than another instrument when isolated. The sound this piano makes isn't what I'm looking for, and I don't have a recording studio with a grand piano in it, so I'm gonna use this sample of Dave Brubeck hitting this G# instead yo, strech that bitch out, reverse it a lil, perfect


For something like that, you could just use a virtual instrument based on sampled piano, like The Classic piano Collection by Native Instruments

Lots of products out there to get stock sounds like Pianos. Or you could just sample the piano you have. You say you don't like it, but if you "stretch that bitch out, and reverse it a lil", it'll probably be perfect as well. The fact that you would specifically need a sample of Dave Brubeck speaks to the fact that they came up with a sound that you desire, but cannot achieve yourself. It cost them time, money, and effort to achieve that sound, but it's cost you nothing.

and btw, practically ANYONE with a daw can very easily get interesting/cool sounds by manipulating samples. Delay it, compress it, reverse it….. click, click, click.

It's like I'm an "artist" because I can take an Image that someone else made, throw it in photoshop, and tweak it with various effects.
You can make some cool stuff, but anyone can do it. it doesn't take any practice to choose sepia from a drop down menu, just like It requires no musical ability to add a reverse delay to your sampled piano.
Quote by willT08
that is my counter argument. i don't see the distinction in what you're saying. it's made up


that's fine, but don't quote me and make it look like I said it. That's lame

and I'm sorry that you refuse to understand the difference between using your own ideas and borrowing someone else's.
Quote by Jehannum
You don't learn any more from covering other people's music than you would just listening to it. .


Yes you do!
Quote by willT08
n1 m8

it's okay if your unable to come up with a counter-argument, but DO NOT make it looking like your quoting me when it's actually YOUR statement.

Quote by MapOfYourHead
He is writing something new based on the sound of something else. It's the sound that matters, not the underlying harmony.



it's a sound that somebody else created.

You could always make your own cool sound, and then sample that and use it in your composition.


Quote by Ignore
He needs to figure out what HE can come up with, using the knowledge he has acquired


that's what I'm suggesting.
Quote by willT08
sample a different tune lol

eno has loads to choose from


exactly. because you can't be bothered to write your own.

Quote by willT08
when i can't be bothered to think of chords i just sample
Quote by MapOfYourHead
Will sampling 50ms of a specific sound is not someone else's idea. The sound in it's original context was a completely different idea in itself


What would he do if that other person didn't make the sound in the 1st place.

Quote by willT08
no i didn't mate i kept it in my wet sponge and drained it out x amount of time after i wiped it up off my counter so it's not stealing



na, you don't get it. It's not about the amount of time. It's about deliberate taking of specific ideas VS developing a familiarity with sound through experience.

"I like what this band did, so I'm going to do it in my song" VS " being able to choose the notes/chords I want because I have enough experience with music to know what they sound like.
Quote by willT08
Okay then

Explain to me how legitimate and illegitimate music are experienced differently


Tell me why that matters
Quote by willT08
you're philosophising about something that doesn't actually matter at all

I disagree.
Quote by willT08
i am sad that all the music i've made is illegitimate

this is a big deal because music is all about how it's made


oh it's all about alot of things. But yeah, if your music is just other peoples ideas, I wouldn't consider it legitimate.
Quote by willT08
when i can't be bothered to think of chords i just sample like 50ms of a tune at a time and loop it

would you say i am a crook?


Yes, I would.


Quote by willT08
no it is stealing, munky proved it

but it's only stealing if you learn it and then use it straight away

if you store it in a sponge it is not stealing. this is true and good. great work munky


It's only stealing when you deliberately steal it.

Using words that you've picked up through the experience of speaking the language is different than taking someone else's idea and using it as your own.
Quote by DaroDude
We have done cover of 2 guitar songs such as the ones I said^^ but the thing is I don't know they made it work the way it did.


just play something that sounds good to you. If it sounds good, it works.

Draw from your own experience.

Quote by Elintasokas
I don't think there's such a thing as "not ready to write music",




I dunno, a person that just picks up a guitar and can't even play a melody or a chord on it, is probably not ready to write music…. or at least a guitar part. I mean you could use guitar pro and conceive a part I suppose, but I suggest that a person with actual hands on experience would be better equipped.


Quote by Elintasokas
The TS is asking questions SO basic he clearly has no idea about writing music. He should just play covers and see what the guitarists are doing.


That's definitely my point. If you squeeze your sponge, and only a drip comes out, you need soak up a bit more.

Quote by Ignore
lol munkey /facepalm.
TS, you're always ready to write music, if you got specific question on how to get this and that sound, just simply find a song or band that creates this sound and figure out by ear what they're doing. After that go back to making your own stuff and use this new found knowledge to guide you.



Now to me, doing that at the time of creating a song is simply stealing. You're basically saying "I have no idea what to do, but what this other person did is really cool, so I'm going to figure it out and use it as my own.

What I suggest is to go through a period of developing your style through experience. People often refer to this as "cutting your teeth".
With enough experience, you'll get to a point where you can creatively draw from the well you've filled (or sponge that's now soaked).
You can pick and choose from the sounds you've become familiar with using the techniques you've developed in your "teeth cutting" phase. You're not directly stealing anyone else's idea, but instead are just utilizing the full pallet that you've developed from your experience.
Quote by MaggaraMarine
But you can still take advice from people. It's the same as learning to play the guitar. Nobody learns it for you. You learn to play it.


If you're taking advice on what to do in your own song, then your not truly writing your own music. The ideas aren't from your own mind. Your essentially following instructions.


Quote by MaggaraMarine

I don't think TS asked us to write him his guitar parts.



Quote by DaroDude
Our band is writing an original and we are trying to find a rhythm guitar section to go with the lead guitar when it is not playing a melody or a solo. Any ideas on how to construct that. Much appreciated.


^ to me this says "We've never covered any songs, or at least not songs with 2 guitars"….. again this shows a lack of experience. it also says " We're writing a song, we can't finish it, please help. "


Quote by MaggaraMarine

I think he asked advice on how to write second guitar parts.


I didn't read it that way, but if I did, I'd tell him to learn some songs with "second guitar parts". (IE get more experience). * and suggest that his band should cover songs with 2 guitars.


Quote by MaggaraMarine

But yeah, I agree that TS should just try it himself. But still, our advice may give him more ideas. Different kind of ways to approach it. For example if TS only listens to bands like Metallica that always just double the rhythm parts, he will never even think of any other ways of writing guitar parts.


It might, but I suggest that experience would be more helpful.


Quote by MaggaraMarine

If you read TS's posts, he said that he doesn't want us to write him the parts. He was just asking how people usually do it.


Again that would be easily learned through experience.


I guess my view is that if you're trying to write music via step by step instructions, you're probably not ready to write music. That's not to say you can't, but I personally think your better off waiting until you're ready.
Quote by Harmosis
Well, yes and no. As far as the small world of art music is concerned, we can say that it's his idea. But, he is merely calling attention to something that has always been - sound is all around us, and, at least to him, it is a kind of music. This falls in line with the zen concept of realizing something that has always been (like the sect that believes that we have always been enlightened, but we haven't always realized it). In this sense, Cage is making us realize something that has always been - just a finger pointing at the moon.



An unnecessary finger IMO, but that makes sense.
Quote by Harmosis
While that's true in general, I think Cage did succeed, for the most part, in taking himself out of the composition by leaving the sounds that occur during the performance of 4'33" completely to chance - an extreme case of what he called "indeterminacy." The paradox is, of course, that his intention was to have no intention (how zen is that?). In that sense, his intention is certainly imposed on the performance. But, in this case, his intention is essentially empty because if 4'33" were written by anyone else (or everyone else), the outcome would still be the same in terms of the random sounds that would occur during the performance, because the performer(s) are instructed to do nothing. In other words, his intention is nothing and everything at the same time. The author says nothing yet says everything, or anything.


He may have taken himself out of the piece (kinda…. I mean it's his idea in the 1st place)..

I just meant that his ideas are no threat to composers/authors….. artists in general. People will always have a desire to express themselves.
Quote by MaggaraMarine
I don't know. I think you can write music whenever you want. If you feel inspired, you can write music. TS didn't say he can't come up with songs. He said he doesn't know what to do with the second guitar part. And IMO people can give him advice. You can learn from other people too. At least they can give you suggestions. TS can (and will) still figure it out himself - he will try different things and go with the one that works best.

Also, writing music isn't about writing rhythm/lead guitar parts. It's about writing music. You can be a good songwriter without being able to play an instrument that well.


Well you can do whatever you want, but it is what it is. if someone else gives you an idea for your guitar part, then it's not your idea.

My point is that if you have enough experience 1st, you'll never have to ask someone else to come up with your parts. I would suggest that most people will find writing their own parts to be more satisfying.
Quote by willT08
i don't think that means anything

what the hell advice are you on about?

also what makes a means of expressing yourself legitimate?


the fact that it comes from your own mind.


and don't swear at me
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
I think this also leads into another concept, which is the death of the author (the author and his intentions and historical context are irrelevant to the interpretation of a work of literature). And piling on top of that, I also think that that leads to his work with chance and taking himself out of the work. Representing pure sound with no intent.


I can hear pure sound with no intent all day long. Author intent is what makes art enjoyable to me. I would say it's what makes art…. art.

While I find Cages idea (or your interpretation of it) interesting, I don't believe that the "death of the author" has actually happened. Throughout his career, and 20+ years after his death, authors continue with their intentions, and listeners continue with their interpretations.

As to the idea that an authors intentions are irrelevant to the interpretation, I also disagree. While listeners will have various interpretations, they are still all based on the authors expressions.
Quote by willT08
because people want to express, not piss about learning shit

because they're human


Most humans are capable of realizing that creating art based on advice, rather than what's in their own mind, is not a legitimate way of expressing oneself.

to the TS..


The ability write (rhythm or lead) guitar parts is something you develop through experience.
If you play often enough, you get to a point where you start having your own ideas as well as the ability to execute them….. that's a good time to start writing music.
Quote by CarsonStevens
No, it's not the least bit constructive but it just seemed like the right place for that quote.


LOL nice
I don't get why people want to write original music before they actually know how to play.
Quote by gary78912
Lol just playing songs i like. But i want to take it more seriously since i know i can come up with some good stuff to play. I have lessons saved i understand the concepts i guess the title is misleading i just do not remember the guitar as notes. What can i do to make it easier or some advice for this



Well there are no short cuts…. it IS work and it DOES take time.

That said, I recommend….


Learn to read standard notation in many positions

If you understand key sigs and scales try playing through scales, but think (or say aloud) the note names. Like try C Major at the 8th fret. Play C, Say C….. then D…. then E & so on.
Try that with all 5 patterns…… try it in different keys. Apply method to arpeggios.

When you learn the rhythm guitar parts for songs…. learn the name of each chord, and think of it that way, rather than tabs/numbers
Quote by gary78912
This bothers me a lot because I feel completely lost when I try to figure this stuff out. How should I go about relearning the guitar if you will. I need to start seeing the fretboard as notes and not numbers like tabs and shit. I kind of have an idea but If I do not know the notes I don't see the point. I understand the concept of keys and the sharps in them, I know all the modes but I have a few questions on those but that is irrelevant for now. Anybody else ever have this problem? what ways did you find helped you see the guitar differently in a short time? I come up with some pretty creative shit, I do not want to sound arrogant but I am definitely held back by not knowing notes lol. any exercises or something or some sort of advice would be much appreciated.


What have you been doing for 9 years? Just reading tabs? or do you play by ear?

as to your question…. try a method book for learning to read

for learning theory, try taking lessons or a class

Don't be worried about learning it all "fast"…… it takes time. Take it at a pace that's realistic.
Quote by MetalSpawn
I am starting a band and want to do New Wave Of British Heavy Metal...The point is we are not from England no really can someone tell me everything i need to know about NWOBHM?


Why not base your bands style on things you already have experience with?

Like what kinds of songs can you already play?

If your answer is none, consider putting off the band thing until you have more experience.
Quote by tyle12
So I'm just wondering. I've decided to dedicate my life to being the best guitarist/songwriter/singer/producer I can be. I have everything i need at home to record at whatever level I need. I just need to know where would be the best place for me to go to enhance my skills in all of these areas the best and fastest way. I can only push myself to learn on my own so much...



1st of all forget the whole "genius" BS. You either are, or you aren't…. doesn't really matter.


if you love playing, then play alot. If you play alot, you will get good.

along, with playing all the time, try taking some lessons, and if you're ready for it, consider joining a band or finding any situation that allows you to play with other people.

It takes time so you have to get past this whole "learning the best and fastest way" idea. If you don't have patience, it's just not going to come together for you.
Quote by DART156
Hello everybody.
I'd like to ask you about making sound like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqv9A2gE6hA
How can I make it?
Thank you in advance!


Play 3 or 4 chords on a midi controller into a daw that has synth plug-ins. Copy, paste, copy, paste, copy paste.
Quote by Fret Frier
I have been playing guitar for almost a year now, and I find myself stuck, not knowing how to move forward. Of course I have learned those open G C D E songs/ progressions and a couple of phrases or licks, along with a few barre chords. Recently, I have begun learning the notes on the fretboard. I found a nice diagram that had the notes in a circle and found it really easy to memorize. I have decided that I wanted to dig deeper into playing lead and ultimately want to improvise and solo. Now I know this subject has been beaten to death, but I am so confused by it. The Minor Pentatonic scale. As my main interest in music is Blues and Rock I know this is the starting point. I have memorized the 5 minor shapes and 1 major shape. I can play them fluently with no errors and without looking.Now what? I tried taking two super simple phrases and climbing up and down the scale and inserting the phrases. What do I need to do to be able to take those shapes and create a solo? I haven't been able to find an efficient way to make any sort of progress. It is unclear to me how you take that scale and start playing riffs along with another guitar or a jam track. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks!



In regards to solos/improvising.

learn to play some of your favorite solos. Learn the scales/patterns used in those solos.

If you're into blues, learn the Major and minor pentatonic scales (and blues scales…..minor blues Major Blues ).

Just start with 1 pattern of each. (pattern 1 for minor, pattern 5 for Major)

DON'T try to improvise just yet. Learn solos 1st, at least 5 - 10, the more the better.

Don't rush through it either. Learn them, play them, enjoy them, absorb them
Quote by willT08
what do you think it's about?

and my problem with that is that my bit never says anything disregarding the history of music.

So you don't think that a person studying Bach is a form of stagnation?


Quote by willT08

edit: the what's it about? goes for both of ya


It really doesn't matter, I'd just rather hear something else. I simply don't get enjoyment out of sitting through 4'33.
Quote by willT08
What do you think of 4'33''?

That goes for all of you because you all seem to think it's shite lol



it's fine, but I'd rather listen to something else.


btw, is this what you were talking about?
maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "rules", but I wouldn't know that unless you point it out specifically

Quote by willT08

Technology has made it such that music can be produced and reproduced in so many forms that any attempt to consider rules as even remotely universally applicable seems ridiculous.



Quote by guitarmunky

Technology makes some things more convenient, and opens up sonic possibilities, but it doesn't' erase the relevance of the entire history of music up till today…… edit….. or ANY of it.
Quote by willT08
Sorry that it wasn't what you wanted to hear.


well, it wasn't an answer period
Quote by willT08
go back a page you dolt, you wrote them


Don't be a jerk.