The 10 comments are justice. Gods law

Mans law is corrupt in everyway.
You're All Idiots.
Quote by 20Tigers
Really?? Of the two posts I made you find that part overwhelming?

I'll make a note of that though. I appreciate the feedback.

The 2 post is what I ment. But the information is necessary. Its alot to digest all at once.
Bb could also be in the key of D minor. or C minor. Just start out with power chords until you find the right note. Then make a cool chord with it.
Quote by 20Tigers

It helps tremendously if you know your major scale since intervals are named in relation to their position in the major scale.

If you know the Major Scale well then you might want to skip to Naming Intervals

The chromatic scale is made up of 12 pitches each a semitone apart from the next:

C - C#/Db - D - D#Eb - E - E#/F - F#/Gb - G - G#/Ab - A - A#/Bb - B - B#/C

come on man all that is so over whelming.

C#/Db are enharmonic this means they are the same tone. so for me I just use one or the other. this I will just use flats.
IF you look at the chromatic scale in interval format its clear as day.

1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7 1

Notice 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 IS the major scale.

to edit this scale would change it entirely.

1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1 is the minor format

this applies in any key
All I remember is I learned peter gun, Then stairway to heaven & dust in the wind. Then metallica. Then I remember starting to write my own stuff. But it all progressed naturally so I never really put alot of thought into it. Looks like 4 or 5 years.

I started out writing good guitar stuff. I like all of my songs guitar wise. The vocals are a different story. The thing is when you play and practice them so much they become redundant. sometimes I just get tired of messing with a song. but I still like the music Iv written.
Quote by Fallenoath
Hey guys,

So, Ive been trying to study music theory and lately I feel Im at a point where I dont really feel like Ive learned much. I started with having literally no knowlege of theory so I know that I know way more then when I started but I dont feel like I've got it to a point where I can compose a nice song. I make little jams all the time but they are never full songs. More like "chops". Composing a full song is just hard for me for some reason.
I have a basic understanding of The Overtone Series, major and minor triads, major and minor scales, Major/minor pentatonic scales, and of course intervals. Im just now getting into learning how to create chord structures.
Im really asking should I feel like I have a much better understanding of music by knowing these? Or do I not know enough yet to be able to fully understand it? I feel like by knowing these things I shouldnt be having as much problems writing a full song since most people dont even need thoery to write.

I guess Im just really unsure on how to properly practice and master these and what to do after chord progressions. I feel like I should have a better understanding of theory by now. I did not learn the notes of the fretboard and I cant read music. Perhaps if I do these first thoery will make more sense to me? What would you recommend I learn/practice to get a better full understanding of thoery?

Note: When I said I dont know the notes on the fretboard I meant I dont know them off the top of my head but I can easily figure it out. Its just not instantaneous.

Music theory is really slow at first. I suggest learning C major and A minor In every way. Because the notes for C major are C D E F G A B C, A minor is A B C D E F G A
they are relative to each other. That means they share the same notes.

Look at it in the interval format. In C major or A minor they are the same
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1. FILL in the blanks by learning the chromatic scale.
1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7 1. 12 notes correct?

In alphabetic format its A Bb B C Db D Eb E F Fb G Gb A. Or you can start from C either way. C Db D Eb E F Fb G Gb A Bb B C It fits the interval format to a T Notice 3 4 and 7 1 Are E F and B C.

Sharps are raised notes You can work it out either way. A A#/Bb are the same note. this applies for every note. But I wrote it out very basic.

IF you learn the chords A minor and C major everywhere that will help You apply the PENATONICS. After that, They will help you apply the full scale EVERYWHERE. Not just a 7 note run here and there. I suggest writing these things down. Working them out yourself and exploring theses things in detail. Theres no short cuts.
When playing its important to relax after making each attack on the strings and notes you choose to hit.

This is the key to proper finger independence.
I See your point and I agree. Tho I wouldn't say 90% What music do you mean? Rock in General Is what I prefer to play. Its the best, New rock too. Most of the greatest songs come from Rock N Roll!

But what you say really requires a firm grasp of the fretboard and chord building. And Its a slow road to go down it seems. Thats way I say Its over complicating.

Learning your fret board is the first step. I would suggest playing in C M Am for a while memorizing all the "white notes" And then sharping and flatting any notes from there when thinking about the fret board.

another way to improve on your solos is articulation and dynamics.
status of limitations is that saying I was talking about that varies from states to state.

Quote by CelestialGuitar
You'd be surprised, a friend of mine had his amp 'claimed' by someone, he phoned the police, and the police said to him that if he didn't give the amp back, they could go in and take it by force. Of course, as you mention state, it may be different, as I'm in England.

Well its like I said If You say He stole it. Or if the police intimidated the suspect and he told on himself. Sometimes ignorance is your best ally or your worst enemy. It all depends on the situation.
my bad on the C# I guess I made the chord wrong in my head. I see what your saying. But Your over complicating it.

My Major V a G# oh big woop. A harmonic minor works Or A minor. Its also has B and E in there so it really sounds good with a simple approach.
Its that, where ole where has my ole dog gone,
Or in Dm I wont see you tonite by Av7.
Or I was made for loving you by kiss.
A really popular progression, one should have no problem making "sound good". but anyway

key only approach? I restrict myself in no way. But I always acknowledge what key a song is in. I use the chords

If looking at the chord changes helps do it. If you need to analyze the piece that well go for it man. When the music isn't In 1 key so profoundly and your having trouble You'll have to have a deeper look..

The progression still has a Key. I always use my ears. Thats the best way to learn this stuff.
Instead of trying to learn when and where. You play and learn.

You must have certain notes you aim for on chords huh? In Am what do you usually play over the Dm chord? You know you can play many different notes to the same chord don't you?

Lets see the basic progression for the solo rhythm to sweet child of mine

|Em G A C D|

just point out The simple approach. When I first started learning my own improv trying to follow the chords around was misleading. Soloing isn't hard copying other solos isn't either. Its because we have keys and ears.

And you can write kick ass solos with simple simple rhythms. But its always good to expand your knowledge. Id check out the song and if theres chords out of key Id certainly consider that.
Quote by cdgraves
Did you quote the wrong post?

Either way, looking only at keys is way too shallow to deal with most music. They key is literally nothing more than the chord of resolution. It doesn't tell what you what to play at any given point within a progression, and it certainly does not mean that C major and A minor are the same thing.

Here's a little progression: |C E7 |Am D7 |Dm G7| C C7| Fm Bb7| Eb Ab |Am Dm| G7 C|

It's very obviously in the key of C, but you'll notice that most of the chords fall outside of the 7 notes proscribed by the key signature. Key alone doesn't come close to dealing with this kind of very normal chord progression. You have to play to the chords, not the key.

Too shallow says who?

Your over complicating it, IF were just talking about the use of the penatonic scales. Starting out simple is always best. The C major and A minor scales both fit each other. So Its no longer The scale you play. but the KEY your playing in.

The progression you picked has An F# and An C# along with Eb and Ab out of key. Its very common for Songs to modulate out of key. You can raise from A to Ab and play your penatonics there for those little parts. But I don't see why this is relevant.

Believe me it doesn't take A fancy progression to write good solos too.

Heres another much simpler common progression for ya |Am G F E|. Theres so many common progressions.
Three things:

Start by creating your own backing track of chord changes, and then just experiment with switching halfway through. It's a baby step, but I found it helpful.

Second, there are some good lessons on this at and

Third, ear training, ear training, ear training.

Training your ears is the bottom line key to learning to improvise and playing melodies. The rest is foolish, unless you know things like. A simple progression is a good progression. Theres simple backing tracks on youtube you can find what you need. You also need to realize Think in terms of keys.

I'd look at it as major/minor chords rather than scales.

The idea of mixing the two is to get the sound of a minor melody against a major chord - the Blue Note. The only time you'll do that is over major or dominant 7 chord.

Look man. theres 5 scales But your only playing in 1 key. You need to look at the key your playing. major and minor scales are the same when compared to the key your playing in. If you need help navigating learn where the chords are.

C major and A minor have the same notes. So the scales are the same.

If you were to play a song thats in C major you would play the same notes you would if you were to play to a song in A minor.
Quote by CelestialGuitar
Well, what he's doing is illegal, so if he flat out refuses when you turn up on his doorstep, phone the police about it. At this point, I really wouldn't be surprised if he's sold your stuff, this situation rarely ends well, but your best best really is to just turn up demanding your property back and say that you'll phone the police if it isn't returned to you.

Unless you say he stole it. the police has nothing to do with civil matters. If the oppressor chooses to claim as his own, then the police won't do anything.

If you have waited to long,( theres a saying for this). You won't be able to settle in small claims court either.

It varies by state but In tn I think it was 1 year.
Why do people who don't understand a concept try to define it?

"Left-brained" and "right-brained" are different modalities of thinking.

It has very little to do with being "creative" or not. It has to do with the labeling/analyzing/compartmentalizing method of analysis, or the absence of that.

A lot of shredding, and certainly genres like mathcore, are very left-brain oriented. That doesn't mean they're not creative. Writing is a very left-brain activity, wheres my experience is that most of the music I play isn't.

I think that a lot of the endless discussions we get into around here about stuff like modes stems from people holding onto a left-brain approach in an area where it's not useful. A lot of us have done really well with a left-brained approach, and it's most of what we're taught in school, and it is a fantastic tool set. But we use it so much that we don't know how to turn it off.

And it turns out that turning it off also unleashes a powerful tool set, although it's a harder one to talk about or teach (because talking about something is bringing a left-brain approach to bear on the subject).

The first step to doing this is to STOP analyzing and breaking down and taking apart. In Edwards' book, it then becomes about looking in a more profound way than we usually look. In music, I think it's about listening in a more profound way than we usually listen, but that's something that's hard to do with an undeveloped ear.

It's not just saying "be more creative."

Thats deep man. I just want you to know, regardless of what I think. Your on to something BIG!

But I have to disagree somewhere. It has alot to do with being creative or technical. (both are useful). This is what it all boils down too. Because this is different thinking modalities. Parables are useful. I don't disagree with the topic, Ive never read that book.

It doesn't matter what you think, its how you think. Thats why I disagree with this, I think the musician should be able to figure it out him/herself without having to read a philology book. Right and left should be 1.

I don't think I enjoy math metal. To me that just seems like it would be more technical am I right?

Listening more intestinally is not enough. You have to train your ear this is a trial and error process. You can remind yourself to focus your contentiousness's on whatever it is you want. but this is only half the battle. and your brain probably remembers the tune pretty well anyway.

Before you go all out on a new post just remember what the ts said, " I fear I am to left brained to write original music"

I just don't agree to thinking like this because. theres nothing you can sing that cant be sung. theres nothing you can say that cant be done. Its easy.

it's more "the guitarist who reads tabs on the Internet and tries to piece things together" and "the guitarist who internalizes other peoples' music and uses those influences to create their own sound

yea thats another way of putting it. but theres alot of successful cover artist around.
Quote by HotspurJr

This is irrelevant to the usefulness of the concept in practical terms.

well then, By simply making someone aware of the fact that you can think logically or creatively is successful.

It reminds me of my buddies trying to learn new finger exercises. When you can make any pattern you want. I say make up something, You say...I don't know how.

And theres the difference between the guitarist that makes up there own music. vs the guitarist that learns other musicians work.
plus your brain doesn't even work like that.
learn to improvise in slow blues.
Its better understood in keys. Because the rhythm determines the key.

because when your playing the scales over a key. E minor or G major, They are 1 or the other. altho your playing both patterns everywhere. Its better understood as which key your playing in.

because enharmonic's are the same , But different.

Ill be honest if you called them the same I wouldn't argue. If you called them different I wouldn't argue. Its nothing to make a big deal about.

Sometimes these things can be confusing because they are called by different names with the same note. and it makes it really hard to understand how 12 notes can turn into 14 or more on paper.

a interval lesson will include all the intervals with the enharmonic separated? How dumb as if the chromatic scale is in context of a diatonic piece.

I consider D# and Eb the same, because they are. side by side what have you to compare to them now? nothing but 1 tone. Its not till you put them into a scale. and then into a musical piece that they function differently.

labeling scales as modal names is alright under the assumption its a easy way to learn different scale patterns. but in the end it just gives you a firm placement of the major and minor scales along the fretboard.
sounds like you learn from tabs to me. rather then from your ears. so you lack creativity. at least your technique is good eh?
Quote by brett.endsley
for some reason im having trouble composing melody. I cant find a guide that helps at all. I was hoping for someone to be able to direct me to a good guide or explain themselves thanks.

You gotta use your ears. Use your ears by learning music by ear. even If its music you made up.

Listen more intensely. and transcribe and simplest of melodies.

then You will know,then you will know and then you can do.then you can do. what it is you ask.what it is you ask.
Quote by that Lefty
i just learned these 5 pentatonic scales but i dont know if they are major or minor someone please help!

minor is 5-8 the minor 3rd. Major is 3-7 the major 3rd

I don't think these are labeled correctly

PENTATONIC SCALE POSITION #1 / E SHAPE:? This is The A minor pentatonic scale. associate them with bar chords. :577555

PENTATONIC SCALE POSITION #2 / D SHAPE:? C major 8 10 10 9 8 8

PENTATONIC SCALE POSITION #3 / C SHAPE: A minor again This is the great arpeggio
x 12,10,9,10,8 The C major bar chord is in there as well.


PENTATONIC SCALE POSITION #4 / A SHAPE:C major x 15 14 12 13 12 or its relative minor. A minor x 12 14 14 13 12



(1 octave lower = 12 half steps down)
C major x 3 5 5 5 3
slow down and work on the sound you produce.

It really helps on the solos and the bends. and it gives you a nice clean sound. even if its not up to speed.
I rest my upper forearm on my guitar. But I also play with it not resting on the guitar. I suggest learning to play many different ways.

You simply must anchor to palm mute right? learning to alternate pick without anchoring Is difficult. Iv been there.

It takes alot dedicated practice and very slow movements to train your muscles. but all in good time.

strumming, sweep picking, and chord picking all need to done without having to anchor.

Alot of mindless exercises arnt going to help you. make sure your 100% focused. Its better to put in 100% for 10 minitues. then 50% in 30 minutes.
Quote by satchfan9
Just playing doesn't get the same results as a practice schedule in which you evaluate your technique/knowledge and try to develop to full extent.

Bull, A schedule isn't for everyone. You'll spend all that time working on technique with boring sounding shit. Ive been there no thanks.

Whats so good about all that technique if you don't know how to use it? Putting things into music and making a good sound is really number 1. I don't care how bad your technique is. You can start with slow slow blues Its much more enjoyable to.

technique is important but you don't have to make a schedule to live by to develop that. forcing yourself to practice even when you don't feel like it? IF your mind isn't there Your not even really practicing.

Hell ya know dream theater guy John putput. Hes got a rigorous practice routines and his leads doesn't even sound that good. great guitarist and all but compare the music to that of jimi page or hendrix and slash I get into that music more. so keep in mind even with poor technique a guitarist could be great.
Quote by Captaincranky

I'm surprised they still let me post in this forum, since I know next to nothing about musical theory.

Now I know why. It's because of members such as yourself who come along and actually remove musical knowledge from it. In other words, after you make a post such as this, we all know less about theory than we did before we read it.

And it seems we'll never get that time or knowledge's like suffering amnesia from a traumatic event. Maybe someday we'll recover, but who can really know what the future holds.....

You know less? Less? you mean you unlearned knowledge? eat more greens then.

Oh yea what I said really turned the world upside down did'nt it? I imagine right about now your pulling your hair out just because of it. I think you need to start back at the basics and work on the "fundamentals". Time lost? knowledge lost? how silly and stupid. Cranky your a captain of empathy.

I'm still stuck on the HALF-TONE SCALE OF E minor. The hardest scale on earth. please elaborate for us caption cranky. But don't get your panties in a wade....cranky.
Well how well does it sustain a solid note without sliding or hammer ons or pull offs. IF it sustains then its not the amp. If you have a old guitar or shitty guitar with cheap pick ups. this could cause it. If your guitars action is too low it could buzz on the frets. Thats all going to be up to you to figure out tho.

I usually use alot of treble not much mids full gain. half bass, my shit has a presences button and a high gain too. so I click those on turn the treble down some.

Ya know I bought a cravin power-amp and pre-amp years ago, total was about 500 bucks.

Well the dame pre-amps clean channel is so quite even tho the volume is on 10. The distorted channel is so loud the volumes only on 1 or 2. Its had its own volume problems cutting out and the effects cutting out too. loosing signal somewhere, I used to tap on the top of it to fix it. I wiggled some plugs inside must have fixed it.

I had a problem with 1 off the power amp channels too. it would fade to nothing I took it apart and there was a plug half way disconnected. HALFWAY DISCONNECTED NO SHIT!!!.

Ill never buy cravin again.
Quote by Captaincranky

Now, why don't you straighten "metalmetalhead" out, because he thinks the chromatic scale is minor. That's going to take a bit more work.

Oh come on. ITs major AND minor. mostly minor tho. because all the notes are next to each other like the half tone scale.
Quote by dumbface12
You do not need to learn scales to play guitar. As most people on the musicians talk forum will tell you they are not fundamentally important to playing the guitar. In fact, these scales are practically useless for the most part unless you are playing some funky weird music.

The only scales that you may ever need to know is the chromatic scale (all twelve tones), major/minor scale, pentatonic major/minor, and the blues scale (which is the pentatonic minor scale with an added b5).

Now you will see that if you google scales that there are many other scales, like whole-tone and hw/wh diminished, but for the most part scales are useless, unless you want to limit yourself with those notes in the scale.

I agree for the most part..except scales are useless. But start with the chromatic scale..practice it and play it everywhere Its the only one worth learning.

The A minor chormatic scale goes like this

Yes a loop! its kinda cool hardly hear it really cept when I turn a track off and I can still hear the track,lol. so I can just plug it into tape input I made some plugs and am using a jvc stero for the ctrl room outputs. but only 1 side of that computers sound works. so that really sucks.

I think this fix's my problem.

By the way I have a contour button and a +48 v phatom button. by the master volume. and 80 hz buttons on Seville of the channels. anyone know what they do and how they may come in use?
I dont think you understood.

It doesn't overwrite my recording. The only way for me to hear the music while I play along is to plug my computer output into the pa input. the headphones arnt loud enough. doing this in one of the channels re-records what I'm listing to. Makes it impossible to isolate a track. you see?

But theres also a TAPE input. I found I can use this and click a button to either send it to mixer or ctrl room/head phones. but I'm going to have to make more plug adapters.

The computer next to the pa sucks audacity barely works on it..its fine for now. I use reaper on another computer it is better.
Quote by lockwolf
Get rid of Audacity & start using Reaper is probably your easiest solution. Audacity is terrible & very limited.

are you experienced with using a pa? I plugged in my power inputs to the ctrl/room outputs on the power amp. IT looks like that will prevent it from going through to mix.

The speakers have 2 plugs. could I plug my ctrl to the other plugs on the speakers or do they need to be powered? I'm worried they are to loop the sound so, I dont think I should try it.

Now I need more plug adapters. I could use the monitor send as well would that be mono? do the monitors go to mix?
I have a usb compatible peavy mixer board. with a 2 channel 1000 watt power amp. and a pre amp along with 2, 15" speakers.

recording on audacity. when I play back music it must come back through to the pa. But how would I prevent it from being re-recorded? and still being able to hear it?.

Could I run my power amp from the ctrl/room selection? to hear the music? would it still re record? give it an echo effect.
Quote by Chorstman
Thanks everyone for their replies. I think I'm just going to learn exclusively by ear. All the great players did it so why shouldn't I? For those of you that have been learning songs by ear for awhile (years) how good are you at it now? Can you hear something and then know pretty much how to play it? I'm just curious what the future holds with my ear training.

You hear the sounds in more depth and notice more things about the same music you've heard your whole life.

Listen to the intro of ac dc's dirty deeds. Is that last chord a D? or an A?

even the intro to crazy train. If you know the song, I'm sure you play A and B. But what about D?
Quote by CelestialGuitar
I do want to say, the amount of anti-tab talk is ridiculous. I understand disagreeing with the word processed numbers we see in the tabs section, it's why I bough Guitar Pro within a few months of beginning guitar, and that's vastly helped my playing, and, as mentioned, nowadays, the pieces I learn are incredibly advanced pieces that I learn purely to advance my ability, and Guitar Pro tabs save me a lot of time. Speaking from my own experience, a lot of pieces you will have to learn for money, for a covers gig, or something, you can save yourself a lot of time by using a good quality tab, as they're always famous pieces. I recently worked in a Pit Orchestra, and so many guitarists who learn by ear would be without hope in this situation, as you're asked to work exclusively from sheet music. Guitar Pro can actually help you learn notation, to a certain extent, and it makes writing music a lot easier, so I wouldn't be too quick to look down on the usage of tab, especially when reading standard notation is arguably a much more useful skill to have than being able to learn by ear.

Thats cool man, Theres nothing wrong with learning tabs.

For all you know what really helped you was practicing 6 to 8 hours a day. It doesn't take a complex song for a beginner to practice. using guitar pro at that point seems over kill. I never enjoyed using guitar pro.

If your stuck on how to write your own stuff and make up your own solos. you need to learn music by ear.
Quote by rileymacdonald
Okay, I am pretty good at sweep picking, I can do advanced patterns at high speeds and can combine tapping with the sweep picking. So I'm no longer a beginner and more of an advanced player at sweeping.

Recently I have been doing research and hearing alot of people saying that if you don't occasionally use a metronome while practising sweep picking, shredding even just playing regular then you will be a sloppy guitarist. I have watched multiple videos but can't seem to get the hang of playing with a metronome or even understand how it works.

Any tips, or scales that I can play with the metronome along with the BPM I should start at ? and is it really a necessity to guitar playing ?


Try jamming to backing tracks on youtube. its the same thing.
Quote by ruker
Actually, I'm coming from the position of someone who was able to develop a great ear for music thanks to tabs.

Its ALWAYS going to be better to learn by ear. ITs doesnt matter if you tab or not if you transcribed the music you did it by ear..

The fact that you tab was like you said cause it was fun for you. You don't develop your ear by learning random numbers on paper. I wouldn't give tabs credit for my hard work. no way man.

If Its to difficult for any of you to learn by ear.. by all means grab the tabs, and act like a robot while your at it. But Its Always going to be better to learn by ear.

Also another thing about tabs. Its up to the Taber on what position they tab in. and in most cases my hands are smaller I find myself usually wanting to playing in a different spot.

Its the difference between linear vs vertical. I'm more of a vertical player.
I'm going to add that learning by ear for a beginner is so difficult. Id be surprised to hear anyone say they have never learned from tabs.

weather you play it on your guitar, or on guitar pro you still hear it, so your still transcribing. Just because you get it on your first try doesn't mean You don't need your guitar or more practice.

So many tabs are wrong. If you transcribe music for an income. You might need to start checking your work with a guitar first...
using a sweeping technique in songs like house of the rising sun. or my favorite Pink Floyd - is there anybody out there. Is a good way to practice sweeps.