^^^ Sounds like the thing to do. And I agree, no way I'd want my guitar being flash frozen in the hold. g'ah!
A real beauty and obviously one very much loved (and played) by 'someone'. Like the others, I wouldn't do anything to it but play it. I mean if something's broke, yeah, fix it. But play it I would do! Nice one!
Good stories, CC! But heaven help us... Patti LaBelle!!?? Je-sus! Especially for the Who? d'oh!

Man, I'd have been wanting my money back right then and there. lol.

No disrespect to LaBelle likers...just her and the Who? Come on!

----oh, I remembered another bad deal, btw. Paid fifty bucks a pop for me and my then girlfriend in Houston, Tx to see Merle Haggard perform in the Astrodome during their 'yearly' BIG rodeo event there (don't know where they have it now.) Anyway, got in there and Merle was late (he was the supposed to be/advertised as the center STAR attraction,) so the smaller known band kept playing as we all waited.

About 45 minutes later, comes Merle roaring out across the rodeo's dirt (middle of the Astrodome) in a huge 4 wheel drive pickup. He gets out to everyone's cheers, walks to the stage, brushes off the acoustic guitar that a stagehand offers him... walks over to a counter and pops the top on a fiddle case and takes one out.

He then proceeds to fiddle a quick, short tune.

Wow, we all thought, most of us not knowing that he could even fiddle, and expecting him to jump into his act now and sing some good songs.

Not. He put the fiddle back in it's case, walked down off the stage, got in his fancy 4 wheel drive and roared off into the sunset.


We thought it was a prank. Well, until about an hour later and he'd never shown back up.

We finally realized we'd paid 50 bucks to hear an unknown (kind of good) opening band play a few songs and Merle Haggard fiddle a 1 to 2 minute song (no singing or playing his guitar at all.) g'ah!

Another BIG disappointment. However, so many people raised hell that we did eventually get our money back from the rodeo promoters. (took six months though.)

Ole Merle is yet another guy I NEVER paid to see again.
Quote by jkemp1
"All the Kings Horses" by Robert Plant & The Strange Sensation is in open C. It's a beautiful song, too.

^^^ this. one of my faves! great pick! There's a dude on youtube even that shows how to play it (very well) in open C.

thanks for reminding me of this great little song.
I don't know guys... I haven't flown in a while now, but from what I'm hearing the airlines are going 'banzai' now on 'carry on' luggage. Acting all crazy and charging all sorts of big fees for it or disallowing it. If it was me, I'd try to get some real Intel from the horses' mouth...i.e. the officials at the air carrier I was going to use.

This is a good topic, btw, and one any of us might (sooner or later) have to be involved in.
Yep, got any big disappointments to pass along for big-named artists/performers playing while you watched?

Now nobody's perfect, and we all screw up on occasion for one reason or another while playing/ I'm not talking about missing a chord or a lick or some other small, easily forgivable mistake... I'm talking about a REAL boner deal, one so massive it pretty well ruined the entire show for you.

This is especially disheartening if it's a paid show where you spent big bucks to get in and see it.

For myself I guess my biggest single disappointment was paying 75 bucks about thirty or so years ago (don't remember the exact date, but it was a while back) to see Hank Williams jr perform a 'one-night' run at a local 'big' C&W club. Lots of anticipation from thousands of people here, and a girl I was dating was wild to see him so I manged a couple of tickets to get in, STANDING ROOM ONLY. Cost me 75 bucks a pop which was a lot for tickets back then.

We got there, showed our tickets, got our hands stamped and forced our way into the crowded bar (it was elbow to arse hole in there and folks were wedged in like sardines,) tried to order a drink from the overran waitresses but soon gave that up as a lost cause.

The show was supposed to start at 7, but it was 9:30 before they started getting the small stage ready...and though we were burning up and sweating and tired of standing in one place, we were pumped anyway. Then about 10-ish, they brought a stool out and Hank jr followed...sat down on the stool and hooked his acoustic guitar around his neck. He strummed it a couple of times, then started mumbling into the mic... we couldn't make it out, it was so low...and we all thought something was wrong with the club's mic/PA system. He strummed his guitar a couple more times...coughed, and then we could hear him talking about his daddy, Hank Williams sr. But he wasn't making any sense...just speaking like mumbo-jumbo/gibberish. He strummed again, and then promptly fell off the stool.

That's when we realized that he was drunk as a dog! G'ah!

He managed to get up and back on the stool, strummed again (way off-key) then promptly fell off again, this time dropping his guitar with a loud 'twack!' and loosing his cowboy hat. That time a couple of his guys had to help him up...the club's DJ then came over the speaker and said, 'don't worry folks, Hank's having some technical problems and will be RIGHT back!' Meanwhile, Hank jr was being escorted (carried mostly) by his companions off the small stage.

We never saw him again... d'oh! In fact, about forty-five minutes later people were yelling that they saw him going 'out' the back exit with a fresh fifth of whiskey in his hand and piling into a limo and driving off.

It took weeks to get our money back on this and even then I only ever got reimbursed for 'one' of the 75 dollar tickets...finally giving the other up as a lost cause.

I never went to a Hank Williams jr concert/gig (or that C&W club) again.

Yeah...I was solely disappointed.

I admit to foolishly having been messed up on a few of my own gigs too (small time ones of course, nothing with that many people paying to watch) but I always managed to perform. It might have not been top of my game, but I got through them. So oh yeah, I was a bit 'more' than just disappointed.
Quote by patticake
you can cut one yourself or have a luthier cut one for you from a pickguard blank. get them at or

Yeap... done this. Not as hard or scary as you might think. It looks good too.
Quote by surjerrylee

Also, just as a side note. I feel like every time I go to a luthier in my area they're really impatient. Perhaps because I ask a lot of novice questions, so I guess my question is are these services targeted towards more experienced players?

They may be super busy and or yeah, they may be bugged by your novice questions... (especially if you're bombarding them foolishly/non-stop.) BUT, in my opinion there's simply NO excuse to show that impatience whether busy or bugged.

Especially if you're in there for a legit reason and are expecting to pay them cash for their services.

Being a professional in anything does not equate to bad manners or insulting/put-off behavior. In particular I feel this applies to this type of business where a customer 'may' be totally lost and have a lack of knowledge. If you've been there more than once for legitimate reasons, conducted yourself properly, and still got 'brushed off' or made to feel awkward and or unwanted every time, if it were me, I'd be looking for me a new shop/guy.

There's bound to be 'nicer', friendlier people around somewhere reasonably close. Just make sure 'your' not causing it by being obnoxious, ill-bred, or overly bothersome. Time 'is' money and no one wants to be 'hounded'.... however reasonable questions/time spent on a paying customer should be something such a professional 'wants' rather than shuns/spurns.

Good luck.

Good explanations and info for sure ^^^ and thanks for it. But nah, I'm not exactly looking for a simple explanation, just musing about and trying to figure out 'what' I'm trying to figure out. lol...

It's one of those sort of irksome, 'I know there's a question in there' deals... just not sure what the question is exactly so how can I answer it.

I feel if i keep picking at it, I might discover 'what I'm trying to even ask'... and if I could get the question right, then the answer might be just around the corner. (that sort of deal. ---a real elusive bugger for sure.)

anyway, thanks for the good info you've given me.


Quote by Captaincranky
So we're talking tonality?

Yes, quite right, tonality is part of it surely...recording wise anyway. But there's more to it (I'm guessing here) as again I've heard some of these old players play LIVE and it's somehow STILL just different from how we sound today. So though no doubt when comparing our playing live or recordings certainly their's (with much cruder recording equipment) sounds different, but LIVE TO LIVE it shouldn't make a difference.

Yeah, I'm guessing it's partly the instruments maybe (and with electrics, the amps) and so on, but there seems 'more' to that (or at least to me.)

For instance, there's an old musician that owns (or used to, he's passed away now) a music store near where I live. I would go by there and jam with him on occasion and even with stock guitars from his retail racks...his playing just 'sounded' different from mine when we'd sit there on the stools and jump into, Wild Wood Flower, or Lonely Street, or whatever. I would do my best to match him chord for chord and string for string and yet always his 'playing' sounds seemed a world away from 'my' playing sounds... more 'twang' maybe, more 'mellow' or 'soulful' if you will... a distinct difference that my ear could distinguish.

Maybe it was somehow his 'style', and I know everybody's style is different...but then again it seems to me that 'if they could do it' then so could I. And yet I can't seem to.

I think my playing sounds okay, considering my health and arthritis, but then again 'my' playing seems like most 'other' modern day players. His just seemed different somehow, as did others of that old breed of player.

But maybe it's just my imagination.

Oh hell I may just be sounding dense and not getting my meaning clear on this. LOL!

Quote by NormH3
Maybe it sounds different because recording wasn't very life like. Just a thought.

That could and likely is part of it, Norm... I also thought that likely it's the instruments too and no doubt there's big differences in the makeup of the old guitars/instruments and the newer more modern ones.

But I don't know for sure... I've heard some of these old time guys play 'live' and even live they seem to make their music sound different from modern.

Now the background instruments, steel guitar, big and beefy electrics and such, were different likely because of the difference in old style amps over the modern ones, also, as the Captain there said, those old background guys had special tunings ALL OVER THE PLACE that meshed/harmonized with the singer/strummer. Fancy chord progressions everywhere too.

But the strummer was just strumming... same as me when I strum. (shrugs) It makes no sense to me that he'd sound a lot different than I do.

Strum/picking pattern maybe? Strings maybe? I just dunno'. Hmmmmm....
I know what you mean with those big pedals, CC... but my basic playing just 'sounds' too modern when I compare my own to one of their old recordings. Even when just strumming...say when Gene Autry just (coincidentally of course, lol) finds a guitar lying nearby in one of his movies, picks it up and bursts into strummin' and singin'... ha! HIS strumming don't even sound like MY strumming. g'ah!

Same for Roy, Hank Williams, and so on... they pick up a guitar and start playing and though I know I'm playing the SAME chords as they are, mine seems to 'sound' different. Double so for any electrics coming into the background music.

Hey guys, I grew up with a LOT of 40's/50's/early 60's Cowboy/Texas Swing/Country/Rockabilly type music being played around me on radio (and later, TV) and so forth. Many of you know what I'm talking about; Johnny Horton, Hank Snow, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers (and Sons of the Pioneers), Patsy Cline, Hank Williams, and the like... I loved them as kid, then got into my teen years with Ricky Nelson, Beach Boys, finally the Beatles and so and began to think those 'old' fashioned songs were crappy...and how wrong I was. Now as an older dude I'm BACK to appreciating and liking those old tunes. (In fact most of song/chord tabs I've personally done here on UG are of those older artists...)

So I'm 'back in the saddle' again playing my acoustic, tabbing songs and working on learning how to 'make' that kind of older style music, and it's difficult as I have some health problems including that scourge of older humanity... arthritis in my fingers/hands and wrists. But I'm over-coming that, finding work-arounds and ways to KEEP playing.

My question here per my thread title though is... getting that 'distinctive' old-style sound into my playing. Hey, I can play (even with the arthritis) and okay so I'm no super pro but I can 'still' play those old songs and play them very well. However there's just a difference when 'I' play them, and when those 'old' style players play them. G'ah! You can instantly tell if it's ME or THEM, even if I can play the song perfectly and even get my old voice to 'sound' like them.

What gives? What were those old guys doing that is so different from just playing the songs in a normal way? In other words what was giving them that 'distinctive' sound of their timelines?

Now later C&W songs (or a lot of them) eventually seemed (to me anyway) to lose much of that 'old style' sound, replacing it with a distinctive sound of their own...i.e. mid-60's on to even present day. My playing (I guess) seems more like 'their' style/sound. And that's fine, but I'd really like to LOCK ON to those old time sounds...that's my goal. If I can figure out and manage it.

What's your thoughts on that? Suggestions?

Thanks ahead for any interest in this and of course, any help.

Quote by slapsymcdougal
Find your own damn bridge. And your own goats.

Damn it!
Well, as a former employer, the MORE people you see, the more you talk to, the more apps you put in...the higher the chance of a job somewhere.

It's just simple math really.

Look neat, act friendly and eager to work, seem genuinely interested in the job and 'what they do there'... best foot forward as they say (and it really does pay off,) and something WILL come your way.

oh, and try to extrude confidence too.. even if you don't know a lot about what the job entails. I don't mean confidence as in cocky, but rather a confidence that 'whatever' the job is, you'll tackle it and get a handle on it.

(final thing on that... two of the WORST problems for employers is always punctuality and work ethics... so, if you get a chance, on an app or especially in a face to face interview... find a way to 'add in' how ON TIME you are and HOW YOU DON'T INTEND TO MISS work. Trust me... those two things are BIG deals to any employer or potential employer these days.)

Just don't give up. Hammer down.

Again, good luck to you.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Dude, just go back to eating goats under your bridge.

Okay... but would you move out of the way first? (did I do that right?)

(btw, ever had BBQ goat? ...quite tasty.)
Quote by willT08
Don't say this
and then this lol

or this ^^^

Quote by Deliriumbassist
I admit, but hopefully illustrates my point.

you're not capable of illustrating your point, for you make none.

you only want to act brainy (for who? yourself apparently!) but you're too shallow-minded to do much except bleat on about how smart you are (which we all know isn't as true as it ought to be.)

you also seem to be stuck on me giving a horse's dump whether I care if you respect me or not. and quite simply i don't. i don't expect you to respect me. after all you're not 'old' enough (or brainy enough) yet to fully grasp that meaning.

nobody pulled your chain on this conversation... except you. so there's no one to blame for it except yourself. and that says what (about you?) there it is, plain as the nose on your dweb face.

when it matters whether you respect me (or anybody else) or not... i'll let you know. till then you're merely puffing up your own ego to overblown proportions and for no good reason. and that's never a good thing. just sayin'....

Quote by Deliriumbassist
Not that I have to prove anything to you about my philanthropy, but I spent five months in India renovating schools, raised over £5,000 for Cancer Research UK, organise music workshops for behaviourally challenged kids at my sister's school and give blood.

I didn't think my post was cool. It's simply what I thought. If you've thoroughly read my posts since, you'll notice that I've repeatedly stated that you're not the only one being a dick.

Instead of propagating the behaviour which you seem to have convinced yourself that you abhor, yet seem so eager to be a part of, act your age. I know it's easy to be a keyboard kommando against kids less than half your age.

sure 'seemed' like you thought it pretty cool. Five months in India, building schools and raising money for the poor, that's great and I 100% salute you for it. As I do your other good deeds.

which CLEARLY illustrates my point here... you haven't walked a mile in my shoes either or have any sort of idea of how horrible a combat zone is. i do. in your worst nightmare you can't even imagine it. you want to compare notes or something? I'd take your India excursion over my combat duty ...any time. and so will you if you had any 'hint' of how bad it was/is.

guys like me are NOT like you, because of our combat experience. every time you try to fit us into 'your' preconceived box you miss the mark a hundred fold. every time you try to 'tell us' like it is and dress us down, you end up looking silly. no slight against you, just pure fact (and i'm sure right about now you know that inside your gut but will never admit it.)

if you want me to be a friend, treat me like one. don't try to show me how damned smart you are or how 'on the ball' you are, or how much you've done. just be a nice guy and I'll return the favor.

keyboard commando that.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I don't hate you, I just think you come across as a dick. And I think you need to see how to be a dick the right way. The slapsymcdougal way.

well, d-a-m-n! why didn't you say so earlier. i'm ALL ears!

edit. hey i appreciate you showing me 'your' mirror, but i've already got one. thanks anyway, though.

Quote by Deliriumbassist
Dude, your opening post in this thread was belittling and denigrating to many young people on this forum. A lot of your other posts have been rude as well. There's a difference between standing up for yourself and being in a slanging match. A gent of your age should have been around the block long enough to know that such behaviour that you (and, again, to be fair to you, others in this thread) have presented is fit only for toddlers having a pre-naptime argument (my Dad can beat up your Dad et al).

unfortunately it was the truth. show me where 98 percent of the people 'trying' to start an interesting thread in here isn't instantly put down/attacked or just slagged off.

you know it. stop pretending you don't. or...that somehow you're any better than the others. who have you been kind to, helped out, and befriended of late? your 'very' first post to me was ugly, denigrating, belittling. and you thought it was cool.

i harbor no ill will towards you (or anyone here really) but you're convinced you know it all, and always got it right. ...even when you don't.
Quote by soundgarden1986
both sides of this are ****ing stupid

there is merit to what you say... but I'm smart enough to admit it.

Quote by slapsymcdougal
Have I been in a thread with you where you haven't been a bawbag?


agreed, likely you are dead right on that. but then YOU being in there spewing your hate and bad manners at me 'could' be a contributing factor in that.

Quote by theogonia777

personal attacks

glass houses buddy

well good for you

so were about a billion other people

what makes you so special


your first post in this thread and that other thread


people 'attacked' you with 'absolutely' no provoking on your end

^^^ just gets funnier and funnier... with you getting more and more desperate. what am I going to find if I go back through every single one of your threads here? lolz. a lot of nasty business, that's what.

but you see, I don't care. you're just too insignificant (to me or the world.) there's a million of your type on any given street corner all over the world. all desperate, all jealous, all wanna' be bad arses.

Quote by Deliriumbassist
I'm all for standing up for yourself and what you hold dear, man, but it's how you go about it. You've been extremely rude and condescending to others, but to be fair to you, there's been a few other knobs as well. Try being less caustic, you might enjoy this forum more.

you haven't (obviously) read all of my threads or posts. i AM a nice guy. i come here in total friendship, and from the get go have conducted myself 'that' way. I give what I get... if you give me friendship you get it right back double the amount.

but if you give me grief, i won't lie down and take it.

see---i don't run in packs. i don't need a pack to hide behind or take up for me like 'some' here do. i'm my own man. if you give me kindness and consideration you'll GET kindness and consideration.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Have you been in a thread yet where you haven't tried telling someone to look in a mirror?

i dunno... have you been in a thread with me yet where you haven't tried to put me down or attack me?

---that's the real question. and we 'both' know the answer to it.

Quote by theogonia777
they didn't let us serve back then (true, even now seven to 13 year olds are not eligible for war time service, or their mental equivs.)

and i don't even have a degree (duly noted)

and i'm not even a guitar player (already a given)

plus he's probably not a 'real' vet anyway (once again ignorance showing)

the guys in the bags are 'real' vets (no, they were 'real' soldiers.)

he's just a 'wanna-be' vet

(i've just got to laugh directly in your face at that. honestly, it's THAT funny. you're getting desperate and stooping to the personal attacks again...too funny...and too expected. Junior, I was a 'real' vet BEFORE you were even thought of. and have the battle scars to prove it and can show them. ALL you can show me is your overpowering desperation to be a BIG boy.) and it simply isn't working for you.

and so it goes. take your medication and calm yourself a bit. there, that's a good lad!
Quote by Deliriumbassist
I haven't read most of his posts, but in this thread he seems like a knob. I don't respect knobs, no matter what else they've done.

and who cares what you respect? i've got a real keen feeling you don't respect anything or anybody. including yourself... you know as well as I do what's going on here. you're (hopefully) 'not' that dumb. so yeah, if me taking up for myself and fellow vets means I'm a knob to you... fine by me.

but maybe take a peek at your own reflection before you go posting 'too many' knob posts, okay? you might see one even bigger than me staring right back.

Quote by theogonia777
honestly if you acted 'then' like you do 'now' i can see why they would ignore you

plus the king of spain isn't a 'real' guitar player

yeah, and honestly likely YOU would have been one of those in the bags. certainly if you acted 'there', like you do here. i'd be going like, 'hey don't touch that!' while you spouted back to me 'but i'm smart and got a degree' ---then ka-blooie!

whereas I'd then be scrappin' what was left of you off of my combat boots. (saw that dozens of times. and from guys... just like you.)

plus, if i 'was' the king of Spain, then certainly he'd be a 'real' guitar player. which tops a 'wanna-be' guitar say yourself, for instance.

Quote by Horsedick.MPEG
I have a history degree. I win, you lose.

^^^ Sure you do. And I'm the king of Spain. (so by royal decree lose.)

*This also reminds me of how many guys that used to spout such rubbish (I got a degree) got shipped home in those black bags (or what was left of them home, anyway.) I, being a long-time survivor there, trying to give them a leg up and watch over them as best I could but them shrugging off my advice and going their own way cause after all, ...they had a degree.

Seemed (unfortunately) that my skill sets, common sense and survival know-how trumped those degrees 'many' times over.

Like your weapon stash there, bud! Nice. My fave there though ^^^ that wonderful old Marlin repeater! Man, those are SO nice. I had one for years and let my brother talk me out of it a couple years back (talked me into trading it for a Wing Master ...which I love but already had one...and a hundred bucks cash.) I didn't really want the Remington as I had one, but I thought, what the hell, as a favor to my brother since I knew he wanted the Marlin. I've missed that sweet lever action ever since and regret letting it go (even to my brother.)
Very well, here goes but it's somewhat lengthy, read at your own peril.

There were 'many' reasons, as I said earlier...

There was the 'stated' reason of the time, a prevention of the domino effect of countries falling to the communist...and surely that 'was' part of the reason for the US/UN involvement. We were living under the constant threat of nuclear destruction at that time. And so many 'free world' countries and their citizens were alarmed (and with good reason) by the rapid spread of Marxism-Leninism to ALL parts of the globe.

There was the fall of the French there in Indo-China too... the French defeat and withdrawal left a power vacum there. And it signaled to the Soviets/Chinese that the West 'could' be beaten... so going hand in hand with the prevention of the domino effect (countries falling to communist rule one by one by one) there was also then the 'we can't afford to seem weak to the Soviets' outlook by the US and other Western Allies.

Yet another reason, and a very telling one (I think) is that the Vietnam conflict was a war by proxy. The Cold War was upon us (and the Soviets) hard and heavy. We'd been involved with it practically since the end of WW2. Neither of us could actually attack the other without virtually destroying the world with atomic fire.

Ah, but we 'could' duke it out in little, unknown countries in far away places...

---Using other people's troubles as an excuse to engage (in limited ways) and gain allies and test each other's mettle. I hate to think 'any' government (especially my own) would actually willingly do something like this, but if you study the brass hats and their political supporters in Washington you will quickly see that THEY don't live in the same, sane universe as we do. Nothing is above or beyond their schemes and plans.

Lastly, before this gets too long and boring... Wealth, greed, cash, was yet another major reason for our involvement in the Vietnam conflict. (this is a pet theory of my own and I can't really back it up with any real figures, it's just something I've come to think based on what I saw at the time and have read and studied about 'since' then.

Face it, CASH is king, always has been, always will be. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. And most certainly the Vietnam conflict WAS a major wind-fall of CASH to MANY American (and other country) corperations. The economy is poking along at this level...suddenly there is an opportunity to JACK the HELL out of design/production/distribution and raise profits sky high! Of course any big company is going to see a good, LONG fight overseas as an instant cash cow. Especially with it's main buyers being the military, which tradtionally overpays for it's goods anyway and with no or few questions asked.

Once the 'smell' of potential gigantic profits hit the noses of Western (in particularly US) corporations, well of course we HAD to get involved.

And in closing, there were many 'other' reasons too. But to my thinking, as one who lived in those times and fought in that war, and lived to 'think' about it afterwards (and study it,) those are some of the biggest things that 'I' personally think got us involved in it.

And really, to my thinking... they ALL suck.

Quote by Eastwinn
also, if i were there i would be shipped home immediately alive. certain mental disorders of mine make me unfit for combat or to even hold a gun.

Are you kidding me? Vietnam was FULL of people with mental conditions, of every sort and degree. My first colonel there was a flippin' basket-case (no joke.) An LT in a platoon I once was assigned to work with was so horribly out of it that his own men fragged him (and made it look like an accident) to save their own lives. I was surrounded daily by nutters of every description. The stages there were, nutty, nuttier, and finally 'nutted.' If you didn't have a disorder when you got there, you sure as hell had one by the time you left. And we ALL had guns. Crazy or not. Trust me on that.
Quote by deadsmileyface
I don't know bud, I'm no history buff, I was just trying to rile this old guy up

Quote by Eastwinn
shut up smart ass. i'm asking the vet. he's clearly very opinionated about the war and i want to read more from him about it. poke fun at him later.

There's many reasons we got involved... and I'd be glad to go over a few of them with you ---if I for one second thought you were actually really interested or gave a flying crap.

Hundreds of thousand died there, most horribly, and to you it's just a joke and some giggly, funny thing to poke fun at. (by your own admission.)

Now 'that' would truly be a waste of my time. (or anybody's.)

I guarantee though that had you been there, if you weren't shipped home in a bag which was not only probable but actually highly likely, you'd have found absolutely 'nothing' to giggle at about it.
Quote by MeTallIcA313
Have fun filling out those pain in the ass online applications.

^^^ Truth!
Quote by Horsedick.MPEG
We didn't win, so that means we lost.

You have a lack of understanding of the key elements of that conflict... it was classed as a Police Action. Technically, as policemen, we could neither win nor lose. We didn't go in to win it, actually, merely to 'force' the North out of the South and a cessation of hostilities. (the original intent was to be much like the Korean conflict which was entirely successful.)

As a police force, we actually 'did' force the North out of the South, and did actually force a treaty and a cessation of hostilities (whereas we 'then' pulled out.) That part was successful, but even if it hadn't of been, loosing or winning was never the goal. The fact that the N. Viets continued the war 'after' we left and smashed the S. Viets doesn't mean WE lost it (or won it either.) (shrugs) If anything, it would have been closer to the military term...stalemate, deadlock, standoff.

Militarily, we won basically every engagement we fought there. It wasn't our military's fault that we were prevented (by our own government) from actually smashing the North to total obliteration, nor was it the Allied military's fault that the South's regime was so corrupt and weak that it couldn't hold on 'after' we left. ---blame the politicians from 'many' sides, including our own, that allowed and set the stage for that fiasco.

There are many fine, factual histories of the Vietnam conflict that give in-depth information on this. Google will be your friend on that.
Yes, you can just 'walk in' and ask if they're hiring (or even just ask if you can have an application, either is fine. They'll either hand you one, tell you 'no!' or tell you to apply online.)

But first thing first. Don't go in asking for a job or asking for an app looking like scum. Clean up. Dress properly (no ragged jeans/dirty shoes, hair skunked up, snot draining from open sores.) Wash/comb your hair. Do NOT stink. Keep a pleasant look on your face in there, look upbeat and expectant (no scowling, frowning, looking beat down, in a stupor or just dumb.) If the person you're asking an app from is a nice looking chic...don't try to pick her up or score 'cool' points with her. (you won't get them or the job.)

Ask if you should fill the app out there, or can bring it back. Do as advised.

Try... to SEE or actually (face to face) talk to the owner/manager. Be honest and needing a job/wanting to work. Even if they only hire by computer application/online seeing/speaking with the manager is a good idea...and can get your foot in the door there---he 'may' remember your name if given a list of apps from the company's HR person. It certainly won't hurt (unless you blow it by doing something dim and he remembers 'that' too.)

As others mentioned... be persistent. Check back if/after you've applied. Most managers will see this as a sign that you 'want' to work.

Keep at it. Don't put in only one app somewhere and go home. Put in A HUNDRED applications ALL OVER THE PLACE. You'll get a nibble somewhere...but only if you keep trying.

Good luck!
Quote by deadsmileyface
hey bud you know we lost that war right?

Funny thing is, we didn't. It wasn't even a war to win, technically speaking. But regardless of that we 'did' physically force a peace agreement and ceasefire between the North and South Vietnamese governments. At that point, we left. The majority of the American military forces were gone from Vietnam when the North Vietnamese 'heaved' the truce/ceasefire out the window and continued to invade South Vietnam. Point of fact, South Vietnam's government/military forces actually 'lost' the Vietnamese conflict.

^^^ Which means nothing to my contribution/efforts over there. My unit had a very important task to fulfill; primarily to locate and assist in the survival/extraction of downed airmen, surrounded and cutoff Allied ground units, help locate and attempt rescue of captured units. The main course/direction of the war was for 'other' forces.

Our bit was to 'try' to save Allied lives. We gave it a hundred percent.
Quote by theogonia777
at least i can spell 'Beowulf' correctly

BEOWOLFF: It's an authentic U.S. Government-issued Vietnam era military action code, spelled in an alternative manner to differentiate it from various 'other' action codes with similar names, a common practice of that time. There were actually three such action codes with the Beowolff handle or designation (that I'm aware of anyway) ; Beowolff I, Beowolff II, Beowolff III.

Beowolff I was actual Intelligence gathering from many sources. Beowolff II was Intelligence compilation and assessment of the raw, collected data. Beowolff III was 'boots on the ground' (missions) to use information collected, compiled and assessed in a direct and meaningful way.

During my tours there, I was involved in 'all' 3 action groups (at one time or another.) It isn't Greek spelled in Latin, nor was it the name of an album. It was REAL life. It was an important job, and people came home (or didn't) based on how well we did it.

I have used the Beowolff designation with pride for 'many' years now.
Quote by theogonia777
at least i can spell 'Beowulf' correctly


theogonia777???? (spelling)