So it's been said before, but BNP election in England, what say you.
Quote by meh!
My uni doesn't isn't part of the national union of students. So i think (lol, 'think', i'm going to pay more attention to this next semester. I was a bit overwhelmed by living on my own and being at uni and stuff) i'm represented by my 'student representatives council'. They're just funded by the uni... not any membership rates... and you're automatically in it so you don't really join so i don't think it can be considered a union though it does the same stuff so i suppose it is. meh, i've kind of confused my self.

i'm pretty sure the only reason we're not a member is that when you join you have to use their stupid card and buy food and drink through them and that would cost more, lol.

Are Scottish uni's part of the NUS or not?
Mate, at this point in time, I'd take anything I can get.
Until I was about 12 I'd get slapped by my mum if I pissed her off.

I never remember my dad ever slapping me, but I didn't live with him.

I was never spanked, thank fuck.
Quote by webbtje
Bull. Fucking. Shit.

+1 for win

+2 for truth.

Quote by GodofCheesecake
It's DUCT, goddamn it!

+3 for also win/truth
Quote by dubstar92
I hold my poop, but sometimes i forget to wash my hands.

Do girls sh*t?


Quote by Hot_Money420
Ever duck-tape you ass shut?

I have...

This thread is now about duck taping your ass shut!

/thread-hijack fail
Quote by meh!
/me isn't a member of the only actual union he could be a member of

/couldn't actually be a member of it, but knows what he means

I'm high, bored and trying to dye my jacket... Do carry on...

Quote by Urall$h1t
Don't know enough about them, but I'll have a read up tomorrow.

Coolbeans, it was a pretty big thing in England. My group and the SWP opposed it on the grounds that it was purely a national-chauvinist strike - "British Jobs 4 British Workers" etc with progressive demands tacked on by the SP. But most unions/left groups supported them, hence the RMT started a new Euro-elections platform - 'No 2 EU, Yes 2 Democracy'.
I'm sure you wouldn't so pro-Union if you lived in England

What was your position on the Lindsey Oil Refinery Strikes btw?
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Fair enough, but you did come across like that.

Define control. I believe that they should have some control over their own conditions etc but we do need efficient management systems. Unions can help ensure that but I don;t know how a worker controlled factories management systems would work out.
I know that in construction for a site to be run effectively we need complex enough management systems.

Of course you have people who do paperwork and people working the machines, but the point is that the people doing the paperwork are not part of the professional classes co-opted into doing the exploitative work of the capitalists. White-collar workers are as exploited as blue-collar workers, which is why unions need to fight to unionise the private-sector in particular. A factory needs a team to liaise with producers, suppliers, buyers, local authority etc, but these people can be elected by the people who work in the factory and a greater level within the region.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
What do you mean by this?

i.e. at the moment we elect union general secretaries, who have free reign to sell out strikes, call off ballots etc. With immediately recallable delegates and leaders, as soon as they went against the wishes of the rank-and-file they would be instantly recalled and replaced with someone who carries out the rank-and-file's wishes.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
I reckon that would be a disaster. A good union official will be putting in 12-14 hour days, and it's not the kind of job that you can leave behind you when you clock out (like most of the jobs of those they represent are). The best union officials I've ever seen even work on Public holidays and take calls at the weekend, and end up accumulating loads of holiday time because they don't want to take it and fall behind on work. Furthermore doing the job limits your future job prospects immensely, it's very difficult to go to an interview and convince your employer that you're a good candidate for a position when for the past 10 years you've been a union official who's job frequently amounted to causing problems for employers. It effects one's personal life greatly and the higher you rise the less time you have and the more responsibility you have. Sectors such as organising are highly difficult and have a high rate of people leaving for other sectors, only the most dedicated can stick with it, and a massive amount of talent is needed. Without talented, dedicated, intelligent and clued in union officials and organisers the union is not going to be effective in any capacity. If you've ever worked with them you'd quickly realise that no-one is going to put in that kind of work if they can work in the sector that they came from and earn the same money. No-one. You just won;t get the talent and dedication you need.

That's union organizers, you think Derek Simpson puts in a 14-hour day? No. I mean the top General Secretaries earning £150k+ who are so far removed from the lives of their rank-and-file members and too busy hobnobbing with the ruling elite that they've forgotten who put them where they are and why.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
There's the danger in using such marxist language, It makes me see you as a typical marxist.

In the same way as you come across as a typical unionist; over-reliant on unions, and unwilling to see the bigger picture, and militantly anti-political involvement even to the extent that it might harm the unions cause but you don't see me dismissing your views outright.
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I'm not playing to any audience dude (and the average age in this thread is more like 17-19 than 13), I'm just sick of this idea that marxists still seem to cling to that there is going to be some kind of (usually violent) uprising and the proletariat will seize the means of production while they ride in an open topped jeep to the government buildings to the cheers of a screaming crowd. I have to deal with this **** from them all the time. This Monday there was an unofficial bus strike in Dublin by a group of Drivers out in the Harristown depot (an old marxist stronghold led by a bunch of union officials who wouldn't know a tough industry if it bit them in the arse). The reason for it was that they were upset at new work practises aimed at cutting costs, which would be fine had they not agreed to the ****ing things a few months ago at the labour court. One of the other reasons was that they were atempting to spark an uprising which, in the words of one ****ing idiot I spoke to, "often come from small things". The dispute was effectively solved today, and guess what, no revolution. Had they not been so narrow minded in their marxist view of the world they might have realised that they could have archived their objective of getting a compromise on work practises by operating cleverly and within the system. What they should have done was got into their buses and did their days work, however they shouldn;t have taken any money in on the day. That way they would hurt the company in the same way as a strike and not have a hostile public telling them that they're a bunch of spoilt union boys and giving the rest of us a bad name.

As for why I am wary of political power? When you lie down with Dogs you get fleas. I don't consider the leadership of the left as incorruptible or infallible and my concern is that in operating in a political capacity they are left with little wiggle room and mistakes become very very public. I would also be concerned that successful political parties tend to attract hangers on and career politicians and tend to make people eager to compromise their positions in order to cling to power. I just don;t feel it's worth it. With effective union organisation and action can achieve our goals without having to be in political power and all of the lying that goes with it. Governmental power can only really give us the ability to draft legislation, I don't think that a legislative route is good for workers in the long term.

I agree with all of your above points.

What I meant to say wasn't let's create a Marxist party and fight it out in parliament, nor was I saying arm the workers, to the barricades! ok a little voice in me was

Yes, the workers need to organize, but workers need to organize not just to fight for better rights within a capitalist system which is built on driving down workers wages, conditions etc, but to fight to replace the system with workers' control of the factories they work in, of the banks they use, of the public transport etc.

For workers shop-floor committees to elect delegates, so that every workplace is represented, for union officials to be immediately recallable, and to earn the average wage of the people who elect them.

I'm as fed-up as you with (in England) the CPGB with their "If it's not a Marxist movement, it's not a movement worth fighting for" bullsh*t.

I may be a Marxist yes, but I would've expected better from you than to tarnish us all with the same brush. I enjoy discussing things with you, and your knowledge of unionism and politics is invaluable, however, many Marxists (most in their own way) are as committed as you are to the workers' struggle, you'd do well to target your militant anti-marxism a little more selectively.

In the same way I don't think that unionism is the be-all and end-all to the struggle, I don't expect you to embrace Marxism with open arms, but I suspect our shared struggles and beliefs coincide more often than not.
Quote by Ur all $h1t

I'm talking about the real world here, not imaginary socialist revolution land.

That's just f*cking lazy. Especially from you, stop playing up to the 13 yr old pit audience and come up with a real answer.
If the workers don't take political power, then it will always be a battle between the ruling class, and the working class. How that can be a good thing...
Quote by BTSleadguitar
You can pop the keys out with a small flathead screwdriver or the file on a set of nail clippers, then just rinse and scrub with warm water or something and let them dry completely then pop 'em back in.


I dropped loads of bits of weed under my laptop keys over a period of a couple of years and decided to 'pop out' the keys. Bad move. They had some complex mechanism underneath that didn't lend itself to easy replacement.

I'm now missing the CTRL, FN, ALT, SHIFT, TAB, CAPS, A, S, X, W, and SPACEBAR.

Had a hard job explaining that one to my mum.
Well I'm not going to say the Venezuelan government doesn't torture people, I'm sure it probably does, but I think that you are allowing the fact that these allegations come from your friends to cloud your judgement. If these allegations came from a political grouping completely opposed to everything you stand for, would you still be repeating their allegations in defence of your views on Chavez/Venezuela?

The US and UK undoubtedly torture/are complicit in torture, but I don't let that affect my judgement of each country. I recognise it instead as a symptom of the bourgeoisie's need to monopolise violence and direct it against enemies both real and imagined. Furthermore to use torture quite willingly (even if they do hide it).

It seems that most of your friends who are the sources for your antipathy to Venezuela come from the student body, who are the most reactionary, pro-American, anti-chavez/working class/socialism, body of people in Venezuela. They are known (in Venezuela at least) for being militantly anti Chavez because he represents the anti-bourgeois feelings of the people that voted for him. The Venezuelan students on UG do nothing to dispel their reactionary, bourgeois reputation either.

Also, there's a difference between 'torture' and 'beaten by the police'

Anyone in a country like Venezuela who goes out of their way (as the students do) to protest the government and form the vanguard of the anti-Chavez movement are likely to incur the attentions of the police.

If you have a family member on a protest or arrested and coming home with a few bruises, that's not exactly on a par with the US's extraordinary rendition is it.

Having said all that, I'm no fan of Chavez at all, I think he's a populist imposter who has no intention of enacting any kind of Venezuelan road to socialism, and his failure to move to workers control of the key industries in the boom years will cost him dearly now the price of oil has fallen.
Quote by shadow__666

I'd offer him some funding for it, but I don't even have money myself.

You're going to pay him to star in his porno? Sounds like you're just desperate to get laid.

You do realize it'll be some cheap crack-whore from the projects right?

Or more likely, you're just the husband who comes home and gets shot.
Quote by meh!
He tried to make it, it was voted down.

That move would give him the same amount of power as... my prime minister/1st minister. Most countries don't place term limits on their leaders, I can only think of America tbh.

And oddly enough, most south american countries have constitutions suspiciously similar to the US's.

Odd that.
Quote by Hawaiiguy
Obama scares me. His economic policies are going to create enormous inflation and multi-trillion dollar deficits, and his foreign policy is basically to kowtow to dictators (i.e. Ortega and Chavez) and apologize for the supposed evils of American imperialism.

The supposed evils of American imperialism?

Just drink it first, then go to wherever it is you're going.

Or you could get like a waterbra, and fill it with vodka.
Quote by JacobTheMe
Prince is a ****head.

Disclaimer: I like Prince. "When The Doves Cry" might be the best song ever written.

I loved the bit where he interpreted "Love Thy Neighbour" as his actual literal neighbours - farmers.

But no, some of that **** is sickening. People like that need to be locked the f*ck away.
Pigs ran into my college an arrested some chick and dragged her out. No warning, no explanation.

Turns out it was the wrong chick.
The right decision would be quitting god.
I get confused with all the people with 'Jackal' in their name, I can't remember if you're one I like or don't like.
Man, 21? Half your drinking life is over. I can't believe you got arrested for drinking a few beers in someone's house. That's bs.

In England you'd have to be like actually violent or abusive to get arrested for possession of alcohol. Of the many times I was busted in public places with liquor/beer I never had anything worse than have it taken off me or made to pour it on the ground.
I'm so glad other people have the time/inclination to think about putting sensible ideas into words.

I'm too lazy.
I don't agree with you going to Iraq, but good luck man, stay safe and come home (in one piece)

Man if someone gave me a book of acid, they wouldn't have to force me to take it.

But you also have to remember that people torture for a lot of reasons other than purely itelligence-gathering.
Quote by A7XFAN1995
There are three things wrong with your reply.

You clearly didn't read my user title (I actually hate the band now but thats beside the point)
If anyone is a tool it would be you for jumping on the "Screw Avenged Sevenfold" bandwagon, I respect your opinion on the band but does your dislike of them prove a logical reason for argument? No it does not.
You using age as a crutch as an attempt to belitle me for being a 14 year old age is irrevelant. Now I'm usually not one to reply to someone over the internet over such a petty attempt at making me look stupid or whatever you were trying to do but I guess in this case I will. Even though I'd appreciate if you wouldn't reply or leave a comment on my profile or something like that because it would just be a waste of time seeing as how I'm not even going to reply anymore. Good day.

I shall consider my fingers well and truly burnt.

Quote by iantheman
That's where the phrase "rule of thumb" comes from

I misheard this when someone told me for the first time so I thought the stick could only be as long as your thumb.

I thought that sounded a bit silly, but then I thought well only in America right.
Quote by Littleangus44
Hello UG everybody's favorite ignorant 14 year old is back, and this time I have a theory of The Pit.

Today in 4th period english class we continued learning about William Shakespeare as we have all week. We watched a video about "The Globe Theatre" and about half way through are teacher paused it and said. "Do you see all that dirt on the ground? That is where the poor people stood to watch the play, it was called "The Pit" People were often ridiculed for watching the show from down there."

So now a days people pay big money to be right down in front of the stage.

Do you feel that The Pit are the slums of UG?

Do you think that the pit fits this forum?????

Discuss, no spam be serious. i will delete this thread if somebody gets all butt hurt and thinks im spaming.

Maybe you should just leave.
Quote by A7XFAN1995
But how hard you failed surpassed how hard you tried.

There are 3 things wrong with that statement.

Your username
Your age
Oh, and you're a tool.
Quote by manmanster
Im not sure you're post was as cool as you thought it was gonna be either.

I tried really hard.
Torturing someone ensures you get told what you want to hear.

This is somewhat counter-productive to say the least.
Poll or failthreadfails
This thread isn't what I thought it was going to be about.

Byebye :wave