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I'll throw a monkey wrench into it with an acoustic player. Anyone ever heard of Monte Montgomery? NUTS with a guitar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8_6aa-TTvI
A quick effort

I'm pretty good at photoshop, being creative, band business, kinda guitar, photography, arguing, making fun of people walking around. I can walk up 3 stairs at once easily. lol Lots of stuff
Quote by axemanchris
I'm agreeing with all this. If you go to any of the "big player" managers, they won't be asking for fees up front.

This could be instructional though.... ask this potential 'manager' who else is on his roster. Contact those other bands and ask them what their experience with this person is.

Or, ask if he has a website. I mean, if he's managing bands, he HAS to have a website. That would just be part of his business model. On his website should be a list of other artists that he represents. Pick three and contact them, check out what they're doing, etc.

CT



^THIS


I'd just be echoing everyone else. It may not necessarily be a 'scam' persay, like he'll take the money and run type thing, (even though it's very possible), just a manager who preys on bands who don't know any better. Usually the legit managers have a track record to prove themselves, others who aren't so legit have to make the appearance of legitimacy through a wall of big fancy enticing words and promises.

If you are their 1st band, or he is "just starting a roster" don't do it. Make the manager (whoever he may be) prove himself to you guys. If you don't get paid, he doesn't get paid. If he thinks you are worth the investment of his time, he will want to work with you without money starting off. You want a manager who is passionate and ready to work for YOU. Before you hire any manager, be sure to read "The Business Of Artist Management" by Xavier M Frascogna/H. Lee Hetherington and "Confessions Of A Record Producer" by Moses Avalon.

Knowing how the manager of a band should act is essential to not getting screwed over when you are finding one.
I think it will be the same. If they get in trouble for price fixing and they have to lower their prices, they'll lower the msrp but keep the sale price the same to pay for the lawsuits.....


......I actually have no clue at all on the matter. I just play guitar and save money for however much the guitar that I want to marry is, because they are all out of my reach anyway lol
Quote by muddymoose
I know that.


Good for you. Do want a cookie?


Quote by muddymoose
guess I should have said "*The abuse of* autotune is the devil", but I thought that was obvious.


You may think you are the only person, but there are MANY purists out there who are against auto-tune, even if the pitch correction is extremely minor. You probably don't fully realize the extent that auto-tune and pitch correction is ACTUALLY used in the industry, but I'll let it slide because I'm sure your excuse is that you're just young.


Quote by muddymoose
always been amused that whenever two or more people come together and agree on something, there's automatically some sort of magical bandwagon involved. If you agree that the overuse of autotune is the devil, then you're on this bandwagon too.


funny you say that, because the title of this thread is not "the overuse of autotune". Please generalize this discussion to fit what you think it's about rather than what it actually is. Your ignorance is a waste of my time.

Quote by Black Star

Actually, most of the time, it is painfully obvious when someone is using autotune. However, the closer the person is to the right pitch in the first place, the less obvious it is. Of course, the only way to make autotune completely unnoticeable is to be singing on pitch in the first place, in which case you wouldn't need autotune anyways.


..........ACTUALLY it is not 'painfully obvious' when someone is using autotune. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back a little harder because of your perfect ear to hear not only the millisecond pitch shifts it executes, but that you can tell the difference which songs use autotune and which ones don't......


.....No go ahead, keep patting.....I'll wait till you are done.............


95% of producers, engineers, labels, and bands DO use autotune before they finish putting out their cd. It is almost an industry standard that autotune is applied to tracks before they are mastered. I don't understand why people are happy with flat notes and the inability to hit pitches. Does it make the song that much more enjoyable for you to know that the song is totally raw and sounds like sht? Get off your high horse. More than likely, if a vocalist is out of tune in a recorded song, it is NOT because they are trying to be natural, it's because autotune could not effectively correct the pitch without the noticeable pitch shift sounds. They just actually suck that bad.

Granted, yes our goal is to sound as perfect on stage as we do on compact disc, but to sell cds and make them the most appealing to all audiences (mainly those with the ears of perfect pitch) you have to use software to correct MISTAKES. Because that is what they are. Pitch mistakes.......

So if your drummer is having a difficult time hitting the rhythm perfectly of your triple bass lines and it sounds sloppy, (since you are so anti-autotune 'bandwagon'.....and please retort with another bandwagon comment. That would be great with your superior intellect.....) you would rather KEEP the sloppy drum part than waste time in the studio with him playing it over and over and over and over and over? Or would you have the engineer run drumagog on it and correct all the triple bass hits to the time they are supposed to be in? Because that is exactly the same thing vocalists are doing with autotune. Most engineers will autotune songs without a second thought or notice that it's happening.

Nearly EVERY single song on the radio has been run through auto-tune. Don't kid yourself. You CAN'T painfully spot when autotune is used, despite that your prideful and false self-image thinks you can.
My advice: do a sound check during the pre-practice. (which you should have before a show anyway). Get your amp volume levels to that you would at a show. Set your clean and dirty channels to switch at the same volume. Set all your pedals to the same volume output. Generally have your amps at 5 or 6 of 10. A solid volume level will pick up the best in the PA mics, and will in turn act somewhat as your rear monitor and be able to set your front stage monitor levels easier and not cause feeback. Please do a soundcheck. Have your levels set prior. Eq and get your tone down BEFORE the show. Don't waste everyone else's time.
You people are retarded. Autotune is to help salvage records of those singers who can't hit the notes exactly. Simply because T-pain and all those other fad-tastic bullshtters use the extreme limits of autotune does not and should not downgrade the usefulness of autotune for a vocalist. Nearly EVERY producer/engineer uses autotune or some form of it to strengthen the musical quality of the records they produce. If you want a quality sounding album, use it. Even if the vocalist doesn't necessarily need it, use it to clean up the microscopic parts he deviated pitch on.

Please don't get on the anti-bandwagon bandwagon and ignorantly follow what other auto-tune-haters state, simply to seem like you are cool and rebellious. Autotune is a tool of professionals. It is also a tool of artists. Just the same as you can make an audio file unique with autotune you can also make an image file unique with photoshop. It is not a bad thing. It is not the devil. It is all in how you use it.

It is NOT a gimmick. Autotune has been around a LOT longer than t-pain. People think autotune is a cliche or a fad. They don't realize because of their ignorance that autotune is not a fad. It is the OVEREXTENSION of autotune that is the fad.

Please be intelligent about the subject matter you speak about before stating your opinion as 'fact'
I'd say play the show you already booked. I'm assuming this is a friday/saturday conflict and not shows on the same day, as you didn't state the date for the second show. It's understandable the Baptized in Blood promoter wouldn't want you playing a battle of the bands close to the date of his show. After all, he's wanting his headlining band to pull the most people. He doesn't want to have to split your fans with the battle. How many people will actually go to BOTH shows?

You typically stand to gain more fans at a BOTB finals show, and more money at the headlining show. All the other bands will be promoting seriously so their huge crowd might help them win. Headliners usually get the best $/head rate of the night.

So your question shouldn't be which show to play. It should be "Do we want exposure or pay?" I would play the battle, and ask the promoter to keep you in mind for a later headlining gig as you already have the battle booked. He obviously thinks you're good enough to book you, so there's no reason he shouldn't do it later. You might not make it to the finals next time. Isn't that why you played the first battle to begin with?
Quote by ncregan
You know bands don't get signed up by record labels for how good their Myspace looks or how many friends they have, its based on the music itself.

Niall



You must not know how real record labels work do you?

Blue_strat has a pretty good idea. Yes, if the music is not there, you won't get signed. Bottom line. BUT! A record label signing a band is making an investment in you to hopefully turn a profit. They look at the product and what work they have to still to do get you in prime selling position.

They will sign you based only on the music IF and ONLY IF the writing is just THAT good. Those are rare finds. If the writing is ok, and presentation is top-notch, but you have zero fans, they aren't going to think you are anything special because noone else apparently thinks you are either. If the writing is mediocre, and presentation is ok, but you have a million fans scrambling for your cd of course they are going to sign you. Do you really think record labels don't hire out lyricists or buy songs for bands? They have image and stylist consultants ready to solidify your image if yours isn't marketable enough. Basically, they won't sign you if cost > investment + time. It's called Artist Development

In the music business, unfortunately, it is NOT all about the music. We would all like to believe so, and that is why we play. You will not get signed if you do not have the potential to sell. If the world only worried about the music and nothing else, there wouldn't be a need for album covers, band photos, stage presence, live shows, and the like. There would be cds sold and only the band name on a blank sleeve.

Since the latter is not the case, we tailor our music and dive deeper into our favorite albums to loosely (and maybe not purposely) model ourselves and our songs after our favorite artists. Generally our friends may happen to like the same bands as we do. You will find writing and musical style trends occur primarily in their respective social groups. 12-16 yr old girls. 18-27 yr old white males. 30-45 yr old married couples and so on; Boy bands, rock/metal, soft pop/classical etc. There are sales statistics that point to these trends (and the trends DO change with time). There are transversely general formulas that sell best. The labels know what is and will be popular, and they know how to fit that mold. The more you have your finger on the pulse of the demographic you are aiming for, the better chance you have at writing music that will sell.

Your image is equally important. Noone ever sees a live beach boys cover band dressed as kiss (although I would find that infinitely humorous). A band is a package deal. The more a label has to dress up each part of the package, the more hit-worthy your music writing and musicianship must be.

If you are wanting to be in a successful band, playing gigs, selling cds and making money, you are doomed to fail if you think you will survive and/or get signed based SOLELY on the music. Polish and re-polish EVERY aspect of your band, music, and image. You will need to to separate yourselves from all the other bands out there scrambling to get a deal.
What makes a good live performance?

Being engaging.

Whether or not you find it a good or bad thing, but 'being engaging' is purely relative. At one end of the spectrum you could have a metal show with the crowd jumping up and down in sync and a mosh pit the size of maryland, and on the other hand you could have a solo violinist concerto in a theater where everyone is black tie and sitting down silent. Both scenarios can easily evoke intense emotion.

Point is, you can have an amazing live performance and not move your feet at all, BUT your goal is to have peoples eyes glued to you on stage. Keep their attention. If you can't do it with just the presence you hold on stage, make their experience visual. You are their escape from their lives for a night. Make them feel alive because you are. Keep their attention. Connect with them. Make them feel something. That makes a live performance
Thank you Axemanchris.

Quote by ChrisMill5
Any company that doesn't accept un-solicited materials is a company that requires a lawyer. Any big name company doesn't accept unsolicited because they don't want to be liable for any music you send in that vaguely sounds like their next big record.

http://www.capitolrecords.com/home/companyinfo.aspx


....... See THIS POST and ALL of THIS POST

Un-solicited means un-wanted, gratuitous, offered, spontaneous, uninvited, unrequested, volunteered.
Simply because alot of businesses use the word and you see it on doors does not mean a lawyer needs to be involved. If you actually READ the whole thing you'll notice something.

"We will ONLY accept material submitted through established sources (i.e. managers, attorneys, agents, producers, publishers, etc.)"

It seems to me that there are 4 OTHER types of people in that list. That little word at the end 'etc'....That means "and others". Which means that list is longer than they care to type out.

Established sources does not solely mean 'lawyer'. Chris said it best. Their sources are the people whose opinion they trust.
House parties are a good way to build a fanbase. Invite a bunch of friends, provide drinks/food and give everybody a sticker w/your myspace or somethin. Announce you are going to start booking shows at venues and you'd love for everyone to be there.

Most venues usually pay per each fan that comes to see you. Some you have to bring a minimum number (20ish) or you don't get paid at all. Which is still good because you play with other bands whose fans came to see them, and end up catching part of your set.

Don't even mention a rider until you are in a position to hire a road manager, promo guy, merch people, and guitar tech........Riders are for the big boys.

I wouldn't go too far for contracts/agreements besides a handshake or just printing off an email. Usually a contract doesn't mean a thing in the local scene. If the club owner says they'll pay you $xxx, and they end up paying half, it's not necessarily because they shafted you. It's because they didn't make as much money as they had expected to (which comes off your fans coming in to pay cover and buy food/drinks). If you are cover band or are 'hired' to play a lengthy set, get one. But if you're just playing on a bill with 4-5 bands every weekend, don't make a big deal of it.
We used www.discmakers.com Duplicated 500 cds. The price b/w 500-1000 isn't too terribly much but may be just out of the range of some bands. Profit per unit is much better though w/the 1000 qty. Very professional quality and reliable shipping/service.

Be warned!!! With any cd duplication with any company it is the ARTWORK that takes the most time. So if you have a deadline to meet, be sure to have all your pdf ducks in a row. You'll send them the artwork, they'll return a proof for you to Ok, and you'll send them the go-ahead. If changes need to be made though, keep in mind it may take longer than you expected.

You have can discmakers design artwork for you if you don't already have your own ready, though it does cost extra of course.
Quote by Lt.DanHasLegs
The other bands at shows are more important than the crowd.

I say this because band networking is how you get more shows at more venues. From my experience, most venues are willing to take bands regardless of their draw. cause until you're well established, they won't recognize your name well enough to know what kind of crowd you bring.

However, other bands, will be how you get shows and therefore have more opportunities to make fans and build a base. Making four new fans is much more valuable if they're in another band rather than out infront of the stage.



I'm going to STRONGLY disagree with this. The fans are the most important part. Granted, making the connections with other bands will help you get shows, but say they do get you into that great venue and you pull 7 people......Regardless of who recommends you it will be VERY unlikely you will get another show (unless of course the club just likes your music THAT much...don't rely on this). Not only that, the band that recommended you, who already has enough rep and pull to get you into that show, may come off to the venue as not having a trustworthy recommendation if you draw terribly. You do not want to make the person who took a chance on you look stupid.

Alot of making it places is about who you know, but do not put the fans above this. I would rather make a connection with one single fan at a show who loves my music over connections with 3 other bands that night. Because when you make that connection with a fan of yours (NOTE: a fan is someone who likes your music....), they will spread your word to their friends like wildfire. Another band will likely be busy trying to make things happen for themselves over putting a worthwhile focus on some random decent band they met at a show.....
Quote by Descendent-182
Thanks for the advice for those who gave it... I think I will wait awhile to build a better following before I send off demo's.



No prob. That's a good idea. The greater following you have the more leverage you have when negotiating a contract with a label. If you can tell a label "We sold x thousand units last year", you will be able to have more say over things (such as which producer to use, what songs go on the next record, your image etc) than if you say you only sold a few hundred. Promote! Promote! Promote! Always have something to give people to take home with your name on it. Bumper sticker, cd, shirt anything. Good luck!
Quote by Xiaoxi
Why do you think there is so much generic music out there? Partly because the lawyers who shop for demos (yes, they actually do this) are the ones "with the ears".

Well, then I guess the explicit warning I got from the seasoned veterans of the music industry are "false".



You said most labels require lawyers to submit demos. I said it might be true for the major labels, but NOT for the majority of record labels....So the music-shopping lawyers are the ones bringing all the generic music to the scene? I think not. The labels know what type of musical formula has the best and most widespread appeal, which is what we know as 'generic' music. The majors also have the most pull at radio stations and with other media outlets. With everything the labels have to do, I doubt they would be paying lawyers to shop for music, when someone without a law degree can do the 'shopping' for a significantly lower cost. Saying you got the warning from 'seasoned veterans of the industry' really adds no merit to your point to me without citing any references. I can, however, cite references to back up my points, if you would like.
Quote by Xiaoxi
The precise reason why they don't explicitly state this requirement is to weed out people who don't know about it. They use the lawyer requirement as a barrier to entry because there is simply too much volume of demos sent to them.



uh-huh. I could believe this to be somewhat true for the label giants, but for the majority not-so-much. RCA, BMG, Sony, Time Warner.....I'm sure they all have filtrations systems in place to weed out bands that aren't as serious, but I doubt it would be a lawyer. They either don't take submissions mailed directly from bands, or require the bands to go through a music-oriented intermediary, such as a management company or A&R rep. Really, anyone that has money could pay a lawyer to mail something off to a label. If I had a crappy band and a rich dad, I could get my stuff to a label easy simply because a lawyer is going to take the money to put his letterhead on it and mail if off.

If it goes through the system like it should, the submissions will be weeded out by those with an ear for music, not for the law. (management, promotions, A&R reps, etc)

There are THOUSANDS of indie labels out there, and if the majority of them required lawyers to be the go-between for them and the music, they wouldn't get any submissions from the new and great bands that just don't feel the need to throw down a couple hundred bucks to get a lawyer to mail something that MIGHT get picked up. The indie labels depend on press kit submissions, referrals, and keeping their finger on the pulse of the industry.

Common sense would say that if they were needing to 'weed out' so many submissions and they required a lawyer, they would post it AS A REQUIREMENT rather than taking the time to respond to hundreds of emails/press kits. Your 'insider info' is false I'm afraid.
Quote by Xiaoxi
Fun fact for you: most labels nowadays require a lawyer to submit demo material from a band.


You want to link me to a labels page that says that?
I wouldn't send that 'demo' off to the record company just yet. And not just the demo needs to be sent. Play some gigs, build a following, have people write reviews about you. If you plan on giving it a legit shot with a record company, don't just look like a couple of kids who threw some stuff together. The drum sound quality is the most important part of the recording process. Those drums sound very weak. You only have a couple of seconds to impress the label whigs and you know what he's going to say when he hears that? "Well, they didn't take the time to make this cd sound good. They must not really care about what they are sending to people. They obviously aren't trying to impress me. And the band photo? Was this taken on a cell phone?....." and he'll trash it. Because he has hundreds of other bands that are submitting demos he has to sift through.

He is also going to see that you only have 73 friends and have one show booked and no press about you. He sees that you have 2 comments from fans per month. Half is other bands spam. If noone else is excited about your band, why should he be? You have to do something to set yourself apart from all the other band submissions he gets.

Get a professional sounding demo. Get professional band photos done. (color & black and white. Labels need to be able to print b&w pics in the newspaper) Get a myspace that looks like you made a significant effort. Play some shows and get other people excited about your band. Then the label will see all that and think "Hey, it looks like these guys have their stuff together. Let me listen some more." And once you have that extra bit of consideration, then you can impress the A&R guy with your spectacular musical prowess and blow his socks off. Because it's his job to bring the next awesome band to his boss. And if you don't impress him, you surely aren't going to impress the guy that says "Yes, good find. Sign them!"

Do some research on putting together a legit press kit. Gain a following and THEN send it off.


Quote by Xiaoxi
Don't bother without a lawyer to send it.


^This is stupid. Don't waste your money having a lawyer mail something off that you can do. Noone has lawyers send press packs.........

Quote by hriday_hazarika
Don't forget to send a copy to Jade Tree Records. They're only interested in the music, not the statistics of your band.


Whatever you may think, Jade Tree Records DOES in fact look at statistics of the bands they sign. There is NO label that doesn't unless the music is just THAT marketable. They have to so they know what work still needs to be done to get the band where it needs to be.
Three or 5. Four is just an odd number. What do you plan on doing with the demo if you don't plan on gigging with it? If you're looking to sell it, or even just post it online, it needs to be quality over quantity. Unless you just don't really care, then the number of songs that goes on a demo can be however many you want it to be.
BOTH. If you're changing your name, make a second myspace that has your old URL and tell people to go to the new URL/band name page. The especially helps if you've been around for a bit and there are links/articles/cds with your old name/url on it. Try to go through and re-add all your friends on your old page. You can change the myspace name/url also, so send out bulletins informing people of the change and for a while, I'd put (previously xxx) in the band name field. That way people that have you in their top friend lists will know along with their friends that see it.

Make a new facebook page and just invite everyone on your friend list. Go back and invite everyone on your old page also. Send out a message from the old fb page also letting everyone know of the change. They may get annoyed, but it's for their own good! If they like you and are interested it won't phase them. If they are annoyed enough to just hit 'ignore' then they probably weren't coming to your show anyway.
There's alot said I'll likely duplicate, but here's my input from 6+ yrs of bandleading.

1. ALWAYS be on time.
Or at least make a concerted effort to get there. Just because it's music and you don't clock-in/clock out doesn't mean your employers [the venues] don't take a mental note of it.

2. Have backup equipment wherever possible
Even if it's the ugliest guitar that you hate. don't want to look like rookies having to ask for guitars to borrow or having a bandmate not play because you weren't prepared enough.

3. The structure/riffs of the super-awesome song you just wrote is NOT set in stone, flow with it.
The influence of your other bandmates musically is usually what produces a unique sound other than that of 'just you'.

4. Have each band member put $5/$10 into a band fund jar every single practice.
Scrape the money together, pull it from your car, doesn't matter. If you're serious, this money will build quicker than you think. Combine it with the income you make from shows will make for a serious dent in whatever recording costs (or other large band-related investments: merch, stickers, pictures etc) may come up later on.

5. Always be humble
Regardless of how superior and awesome you think you are, coming off that way towards your bandmates and the people you come in contact with is not professional. If you are so spectacular at what you do, let the music do your talking for you.

6. Keep all your bandmates informed of practices/shows/cancellations.
Nothing like someone 'forgetting' and having the bassist clear his schedule for the night and there end up being no practice. We all have lives too, please be courteous as your bandmates have other obligations they may be giving up during 'practice time'.

7. Practice at HOME as well as at practice.
If the only time you turn on your amp or sit on your throne is at practice, you are cheating yourself and your band. Even if the band practices all the time, practice MORE. Always be trying to surpass someone who is better than you in skill level.

8. Learn the other side of it.
If you are musically oriented, read books on music business. If you are business oriented, read books on music theory. Having a good knowledge of both sides of the puzzle will help you when the time to contribute (or understand) comes along.

9. The music WILL NOT DO THE WORK for you.
No matter how much you think it will. As a band, pull together and do the necessary legwork to promote and market yourselves well. Shouldering a single bandmate with that responsibility is neither right or courteous. The music needs to be there to have something to promote, but if there are 5 bandmates doing the work of 1 person, your word will travel faster and further, essentially bringing more people and $$$ to your shows.

10. Learn songs that aren't in your primary listening genre.
If not to get outside creative influences, use it to expand your skill level. Metalhead? Try some speedy bluegrass. Into the chill/ambient? Learn something fast and crazy. The most creative mind is the one that challenges itself most often.

11. Load up and break down ASAP!
No other band likes to wait an eternity for you to relax while you chat w/your fans and unload your gear off-stage. Not only are you making them late, you're essentially cutting the entire night short with the time you are lolly-gagging around with. There is a closing time AND a schedule.

12. DON'T STEAL GEAR!!!!!!
^ See above.

13. Always plug for the bands after your set and thank the bands before you.
It's only courteous to help spread the word of the bands you're working with. Whether or not you like them or thought they were good, do it anyway. If it's a rival, you're now the bigger person. If it's a crappy band, they'll make a mental note of that and plug/promote/thank your band later

14. Don't break/trash things.
Seriously, do I need to say this?

15. Always let your band know your schedule.
Whether it's work, school, holidays, days you want to make sure not to have a show or practice. There are 4-5 other people arranging their schedules to meet up, don't spring something on your band last minute saying "oh I can't practice, I have blah blah going on tonight". This means know your gfs birthday and your anniversary. (You should know this anyway)

16. Always reach out to the people in the crowd and make them feel special.
Even if it's to thank them for coming or asking them to stick around for your set. Treat them like another number and they will likely do the same to you. "Oh it's just another band whoring themselves out". If you don't attempt to make it personal they'll likely just toss the flier you handed them into the trash on their way out.

17. Don't fight at band practice (or at a show for that matter).
Let's not waste everyone's time while we're here. Don't put your bandmates in a bad mood if you happen to be in one. If you've got beef with a band member, talk to them outside of practice and resolve the issue.

18. Don't stop playing at a show. KEEP GOING
Guitarist drops out, keep going. Singer goes hoarse, keep going. Nothing looks more amateur than stopping the song to wait for the whole band to get back in it. And NEVER EVER start a song over. Welcome to "Hey mom and dad, watch what I learned!".......

19. Don't cancel shows unless you absolutely have you.
Try being the booking agent for a club when 2 bands cancel the night of/night before a show and you have to scramble to find people to fill the slot. Death/illness are ok (obv). The band breaks up, let the club know asap. If you have to work, see point 20.

20. Ask off work BEFORE the show is booked.
Assuming you are off for that night simply because you're never scheduled is not a smart thing to do. Be sure. See how happy everyone else will be when you say "I have to work" when everyone else is loading in getting ready to go play. Be responsible.

21. Get a confirmation when you book the show from the club.
Just because they say 'we'll try to get you on that day' doesn't mean they actually do. Double-confirm the show the week before and make sure you show up on their calendar. Not only for confirmation purposes, but to also have your name out there when people visit the clubs site.

22. Always set your amp/pedal levels BEFORE you get to the show.
When the sound engineer checks your dirty at 4 and doesn't know your clean volume is set at 9, not only will he be pissed, everyone in the crowd won't think you've got your act together.

23. Record/videotape your performances and review them later w/the band
Even if you did a crappy job, and you know you did, get the recording from the club or from whoever is going the videotaping. When think you moved a ton and you see how much you ACTUALLY moved, you will be suprised. Therefore you can improve on what you do next show. Something may sound or look really cool and wasn't even meant to happen. You'll catch that on tape and easily recreate it later.
This is a flier I made for one of our last shows. I was messin around in photoshop and thought it looked cool, but when it comes to visual representation of your band....it needs to be the best. I don't think it's SOLELY for name recognition. It definitely is a good thing to have your name all over the place BUT......say for instance you see flier A for a band and it looks cheap, half-assed and mediocre. Without any knowledge of their music, you are instinctively going to make a judgement call whether you think they are going to be good or not. Now say for instance you see a flier in your part of town, that's professional. Clean, easy to read, it has a professional picture of the band on there....They are going to look like they have their act together. The music has yet to actually be heard, but if you are walkin around town with nothing to do, you just might go see them and take a chance. I mean, their flier looks good, right? They look like they know what they are doing and have apparently invested time and effort to look professional.

Just because you think something about promoting and marketing doesn't actually work, doesn't mean it doesn't. If you can get the on-the-fencers by just your image, there's 3 or 4 more people who came to see you than who would have normally. All those commercials you see on tv all the time are garning familiarity and presenting their product. If they can't get you with one, they're going to try and get you with the other. Even though you might not know Product A from Product B, but you see Product A all over the place, which one are you going to choose???

But as far as fliers, keep things clear and readable. Make it attractive, interesting and professional (or indie/underground), whatever feel you want to go for. This one I have up may be a bit busy and slightly unreadable, but I was able to use each bands logos (with their approval of course) and include cover, time, location, age restrictions, and the other bands. I use this basic skeleton and I've found it works well.

Quote by Ferrets!
Go ahead and do it. It's free, and it's experience. Plus, if it ends up sounding good, you've got a demo track to throw on myspace or something.


This. However, if it sounds so-so or worse, I wouldn't pass it out. If you're serious about the band, peoples first impression when they first hear you should blow them away. Significantly increases the odds of them checkin out your website or going to the show. If the demo is so-so, audible pitch problems, rough/no eq, and level problems, someone is likely to not check it out because really....people that have alot of experience and good quality it reflects in what they do. I'd do a solid single and give it away for free everywhere if it's good. You need to build a fanbase as quickly as possible and that means getting your QUALITY music into as many ears as possible. My $0.02
Wikipedia says:

"Nerd is a term often bearing a derogatory connotation or stereotype, that refers to a person who passionately pursues intellectual activities, esoteric knowledge, or other obscure interests that are age-inappropriate rather than engaging in more social or popular activities. Therefore, a nerd is often excluded from physical activity and considered a loner by peers, or will tend to associate with like-minded people"

I don't really see how any music can be deemed 'nerdy', regardless of the context. Unless however, you found an electronica band who sang about the clocking speeds of a G5 or how safe a pocket protector really is. I feel like singing about something that is historically correct and injecting emotions into the music is essentially the opposite of 'nerd' and the epitome of engaging storytelling. Storytelling is definitely a social activity.
Not a big deal. Just make sure which one has priority. What someone does with their time outside of your scheduled practices and shows is their business. As long as everyone is open and knows what's going on all should be good. I would raise an eyebrow though if he's trying to sneak around behind your back about it. That just screams 'I want to leave this band but won't til I can establish something else first'.

Sometimes it's just the need to play a different genre of music than your primary band. Hell, if I had the choice I'd quit my job and be in as many bands as I had time for.

As far as managing your time between the two, I'd be sure the second band knew about every practice and show scheduled, so they could work around it. Springing stuff on people that are dependant on you at the last minute is not a cool thing to do.
That. Is. Awesome.
Quote by ceske
So, we have recieved a couple of replies from places that seem interested in working with us.

And thanks for the advice. We have been working to network with some local bands and introduce ourselves/build a relationship with a couple of venues.

Actually, JackFlash (if you read this) we're currently students at UNT. Do you know of any places that would be interested in an alternative folk duo? A few songs of ours are uploaded onto my profile if you wouldn't mind listening (that goes to anyone, really). Just please forgive the sound quality. They are very rough demos.



Yea, actually drop me a line either via email (trvs_mrks@yahoo.com) or my aim sn (TGMarks19). I never check the pms here, but I've been in Denton for close to 7 years playing in, managing, booking, and shooting bands in the area. I can tell you everything you need to know about the Denton music scene haha. Sig check for my website that's being put together specifically for venues and bands(Venuecity). (server had a bunch of gay data loss 6 months ago, so we had to start from scratch again :/)
Quote by freshtunes
Be a frequent customer at the places you wish to play. If you want to play there, they most likely have other shows often. Go to as many as possible and start networking like crazy. Don't even mention you're in a band, just talk with the staff, the guys who are running the show, the guys playing the show, and the audience. Make yourself a known individual, so they know you, and you know them....lots of rapport. After a while just kind of drop in that you play, and would like to perform there sometime. No way in hell they will say no if they know you, and your material is solid. Relationships in the business are key.

Edit: This whole process should take place over the course of a month, not a night.



^^ YES!. Not many people like to take the effort to do that kind of networking when I say they should do that kind of thing. This type of networking is extremely efficient for present and future gigs.
Scratch tracks for sure. Playing to a click definitely helps keep him on time, but odd timing may create issues in transitioning and tempo changes. I can understand if the drummer doesn't want to play till everyone has recorded their part, but I would surely not have everyone record the final version of their part, THEN do drums. The drums are the backbone and the time-keeper. scratch guitars ->scratch vox -> drums -> final guitars -> bass -> vocals.

I like to put scratch vocals in there bc i believe it adds to the dynamic intensity of the drumming in correlation with the energy of the singing.
Quote by axemanchris
Watch the language you use. You know the relative quality of how it sounds, so don't let what we say sway you, but is it a demo? Or is it an EP?

(I'm assuming it is all original material, as if it were covers, selling or giving it away are both illegal....)

If it is a demo, give it away. Nobody wants to pay for a business card that you can hear. Nobody wants to pay for a half-baked burned copy of a CD with some song titles scratched on with a Sharpie either. I wouldn't anyways.

If I'm going to lay out money for something, make it look like, feel like, and sound like other things that I buy.

If it is an EP, then it is a product. You've crafted your songs, gotten them the way you will want to hear them even 40 years from now, and this is how you want others to remember them. In that case, do NOT give it away. People will not attach any more value to it than you do. If you attach no value to it, then neither will they. It is easy to just chuck it and not even listen to it. On the other hand, even if they paid $5 for it, they'll at least hang onto it for a while, and will surely listen to it at least once or twice.

If it is half-baked, then decide whether to keep it as a demo, or whether to pursue it further and turn it into something you won't be embarassed about selling.

CT



^this


Here is my addition. And this is a big part. If you are going to take the time to record a demo, make it 1 or 2 songs and spend some $ and make them good, or at least above average. You are spreading this around to build a fanbase. Surprise a listener who may pop a sharpie-ridden cd in his cd player with actually decent quality. I know I can't listen to crap quality cds regardless of how good the band may be. It's just not pleasing to the ear.

My advice, give it away with a flier when you are promoting for shows. Make sure your band name AND myspace/website are printed on there. You can buy cd label printing kits for cheap if you don't want to do the sharpie route...in fact, I would suggest it. And buy some sleeves as well. Take the money you make from the upcoming show and pay yourself back (long as everyone agrees).

If you are passing them out, the reality is the majority may not even listen to it. It may end up in the trash. Say out of 100 people, 50 are trashed, 25 are listened to, then trashed, and 25 are listened to and they visit your site/come to the show. You can't aim for 100% of people who hear your cd to like it, bc they won't.

If you are at a show, you can put them at the back next to your email form, or you can have the doorguy give all the fans who are there to see you a cd as a bonus when they get in. I wouldn't require people to give their email in exchange for a cd as putting undue pressure to get your music heard isn't something you should do to entice the on-the-fencer thinking you sounded good so they'd give your cd a shot. I don't necessarily want spam in my inbox either, but if I like the band, I'll find a way to get updated. I understand the idea of it, but as a requirement I don't suggest it.

You can also setup a donation box or have it labeled "recording fund" and say 'Free demo with donation'. Not everyone will have a $5 bill, but getting your music in peoples hands and a fan giving what they can to help you out will go further than not.

At the very least, give it away for name recognition. I have a cd I have yet to listen to, but I've seen it so many times sitting around I know who they are when I hear the name, and THAT is what you want to happen. To be known. Because the more people there are that know you, the greater odds there will be more people that like you, and equally more people who will go to your show and buy your merch and so on.

You won't make money on a demo, even recouping 'production' costs in the short run. But think long run, when you are packing out clubs and venues and banking.
Yes. Without war we wouldn't know what peace was.
If there wasn't light we wouldn't know darkness.
Good - Bad
Right - Wrong
Fast - Slow
There's a yin and a yang to everything. If we didn't have the one, we wouldn't know or appreciate the other. There may be some that may say ignorance is bliss. I dunno, it's a slippery road. The world comes in twos. For what reason I couldn't tell you, but it's a goal to have as little of the bad and as much of the good. For the bad to be completely gone....I dunno. Would bad come from too much good? .........................


(am I talkin out my ass? lol)
Hahaha I hadn't seen it. I chuckled. It's funny that everything in those shows is totally scripted.
Quote by 9Guitarist9
tl;dr.

Ok well done u have a gf. Your goal in this thread is complete as you have shown-off the fact that u have 1.




Really? That was like, 3 sentences.......
Quote by speakers
old site is old, I'm pretty sure making this thread is a bannable offence, ask lt. shinysides...


x2 lol
Def a cool app. Something along the lines of what I'd like to do w/my website, but w/more user submitted info. *sig check!*lol