Quote by Will Lane

I wonder if the congregation will even notice

They won't :P But you'll have a better time, so yeah. Looks awesome, HNAD!
Biggest Vypyr you can afford. Or maybe the Vox VT series for lower gain models. Also based on the two bands you listed I'd be looking at a different guitar, the Affinity's are hit and miss and not really suited to that kinda music - I'd suggest something like an Epiphone G-400.

Used gear is your friend, so long as you check it out first.
Quote by Wormholes
If I am spending $1400 on a guitar there better not be one ding or scratch on the entire thing. If it was shipped to me it might be out of tune a bit but I won't be ordering a guitar from the equator so it better be set up properly before it leaves the factory.

What's properly? Setup is subjective. I'm sure they'll ship something that's playable out of the box but there is no such thing as 'properly' in this context.
I think we all need to be careful with the difference between "playing style" and "tone", as has been touched on, especially above. Not being able to match someone's playing style is a different matter from not being able to match their tone.

Making a special effort to mimic someone's tone as a learning exercise is a really good point actually - teaches you all kinds about what they did, why it sounds good and how you can use it yourself.
I think most people are realistic enough to appreciate they can only get the same kind of vibe, I for one am never out to match a sound perfectly. Those that are often use high end modelling gear designed to mimic some of the more specific details in a signal chain, like the mic and mic position. At this point you can usually get pretty close.

I agree that yeah, there are certain studio effects that can't be copied easily, and as you point out, many artists can't even do it themselves live, but the key is the audience don't usually know or care.

Another thing to note is while the studio may have £££ of kit, much of that is designed specifically to not colour the sound of the amp and guitar, and actually the cost is down to preserving the original tone.

Basically, recommend the overall kind of sound (Voicing, Pickup type, key FX) and a realistic player will be happy enough. People on a mission to get the exact sound, well, they have a real job on...

Probably not a great call, won't be an upgrade on your Peavey, might even sound worse.

I'd be looking at;

- Peavey classic or ultra series,
- Jet city 20 and 50 watters,
- Marshall DSL401 (preferably not the new DSL),
- Perhaps Laney's VC and LC series,
- Some of the Traynor YCV series (40 and 50 watters),
Quote by bluestratplayer
What do you mean by save tubes?


It's a backup, so if you don't use it, you won't wear out tubes. And they cost what, £30 every couple of years anyway?

You need spare tubes even if you only have one amp, so basically think of your backup as a place to keep spares.
Quote by Cajundaddy

Why have you made it one of those threads? This was just a thread about a guy looking at a few mesas, and you're intent on doing this for the 15898532846x time.

TS, listen to all the other great advice in here, and especially if you want the versatility, roadster.
Quote by xbouncer927
Thank you. This was EXACTLY my point. A tele and a strat neck are just a piece o' alder, usually, sometimes ash, even pine or basswood depending on the model with some dots. Theres no rosewood being glued onto them (except for those models obviously) and there's no expensive fancy inlays for the standard series.

The bodies themselves are usually 1-3 pieces of alder glued together, whereas a les paul or SG usually have a top.
And a les paul or sg standard is roughly ONLY $200 more than an American standard tele or strat...



The majority of features you describe as making the Fender "bare bones" actually save very little in production costs.

US std. strats use better cuts of wood than LPJs, and the wood under the paint is every bit as good as the stuff Gibson use on LP and SG standards, which in the case of LPs aren't solid pieces of wood anyway.

SGs are thinner than strats and don't have an arched top. They're, as you put it, just a piece 'o mahogany. Neither guitar has expensive aftermarket pickups, complicated floyd roses - y'know, the kind of stuff that people pay extra for.

The fact is, comparing Fender and Gibson prices is silly. There are too many variables you don't understand, and if you want a Strat, even an LP standard that you perceive to be better value won't do the job.
How about converting that 4x10 into a head and cab, if that's something you're comfortable with? 10" speakers aren't typically favoured for that kind of music, blue marvels aren't great and that combo must be a heavy old lump!

I think you'd like a head + 2x12 or 4x12 setup.

Otherwise, yeah, think about what you want, can't usually go wrong with a good EQ, OD and delay.
Quote by Clarkinator
Hence why I said when they are cloudy they need to be replaced...

That's rather obvious. Also, telling someone not to replace power amp valves until they're completely dead is stupid. You wouldn't wait until your car's running on it's rims before putting new boots on now would you?

TS, if you like it and it does what you want then keep it. You got a good price but you'll need new valves, so factor that into the low price. The TSL's don't get that much love around here but there aren't many three channel amps that can do what it does at the price.

I don't know of the overheating issue but if it is as simple a part swap as that then you should be able to get it done easily. Again, factor that cost into the price, you'll still have got it pretty cheap.
Gibsons by their nature cost more to manufacture than fenders (carved top maple cap, mahogany vs alder, set necks, etc) For what it's worth, low end Gibsons cost about the same in proportion to high end Gibsons as low end Fenders do to high end Fenders.

I actually like that the cheap Gibsons are "baby Gibsons". If you have to save money, where is a better place to save it than shiny finishes, binding and the like? Seems faultless cost cutting to me.

Live band playing more Fenders is probably more to do with the music scene you're following, and the fact that, like you said, low end Fenders cost way less than low end Gibsons.

And saying that Gibsons aren't very modable - Leo Fender was an Engineer. Everything he made could be serviced and repaired simply. Gibsons have always been more traditional, and every time they try to do something new they get a lot of hate. So don't expect Gibson to start building bolt on LPs en mass anytime soon.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
10 is the square root of 100.

WTF is the square root of 50.


What could be more brutal than an irrational number?
That's a really good looking guitar, you wouldn't know it was an Epi Standard. But every time I look I swear that serial number and bottom right tuner are wonky :P Regardless, HNGD!
3 nice guitars, no good amp.

No question. Just go out, play a load of amps, AC15s are a good starting point, but you might fall in love with something else.
Quote by TJWhonley
I live in europe so mesa is a no-go, sorry

If you're patient there are deals on Mesas over here, but admittedly few and not new. A mate of mine picked up a lonestar special for ~£7-800 when they were >£2k new. But that's rare.

From reputation alone the EVH should be a great match, but I've never played it. Orange make fantastic cabs, I can assure you of that. Bear in mind used gear often works out a lot cheaper - cabs can't really break either.
Quote by Nick.Trigg
Mate we have had about 2 or 3 weeks of hot weather i dont think that is it.
How old are your string cause it might just be that you are due to a change of strings.
You should try to change your strings every 1-2 months but really it all depends.

But dont go into any drastic thoughts just put some talk on your hands before you play

Fair enough, but there are some great higher end MIMs out there, some of them might just speak to you. Also bear in mind MIJ, they churned out some amazing stuff, and even a couple of special edition MIK models (I lust after a Lite ash and those things pop up for like $300-400...)

Also consider the various other brands mentioned that produce great strats, particularly G & L if the fender thing bothers you.

Leo didn't put his name on anything crap. Well, not often.
Changing the pickguard takes 5 minutes and costs practically nothing. Also, why only US Fenders?
Quote by diabolical
I'd get the TT but if you are going to cough up the $$$ for the more expensive Orange you might as well look into Marshalls at that point as well.

Eh? Expensive chalk isn't the same as expensive cheese.

TS, I've tried the TT and the rocker and I know the RVs and TH30 a little, and as has been said they're all pretty different amps. All good, but all different. You need to line them up, play them one after the other and see which offers the sound you want, and take into account there's a big variation in versatility between them (tone knob vs proper EQ, 1 vs 2 channels, 15/30/50/100 watts etc) which is a deal breaker for some people.
^^ The vyper tube will be your best bet for various heavy tones on a budget. And Peavey has a reputation for solid products. It might not be quite as solid as a 5150 but I doubt there'll be that much difference in reliability between the SS and tube Vyper. Anyway, the tube version sounds easily good enough to justify any possible downsides.
When did I say anything about Ebony? I'm confused. All I'm saying is you came in here flaming Gibson for using a wood you hadn't tried, despite the well publicized issues they had with their rosewood supplies. You then told everyone how much better their instruments used to be, based on some half truths and/or lies based around largely subjective matters. And all in a thread where the guy has, IIRC, already got the instrument in question.

It was all just a bit...over the top and poorly justified.
Quote by Tubetinkerer
Excuse me.. I was being sarcastic.

I heard about laminated rosewood and baked maple this morning and I could not believe what I was hearing. I was actually either buying a true Gibson LP (grade AAA flame maple top) or a cheap chinese copy.
Salesperson told me that they were not aqcuiring any new Les Pauls for reasons of baked maple and laminated rosewood.
I told him that I would not even want to buy it, with those issues and for the prices they go for these days. It is a crying shame, that some people actually defend Gibson for this policy. Let's be honest, justifications to buy a an LP always were, one piece solid (?) body, one piece neck, one piece high quality, well prepared rosewood fretboards and great craftmanship, right ? And the fact that it had Gibson on the headstock and "Made in Usa" on the back made you pay the extra cash. But it seems that's all you get from Gibson these days. Sorry I just can't get over it......

So for 1/5 of the price I got me a chinese LP copy. Solid (!) body, flame maple top (veneer, but hey, who can tell ?) single piece rosewood fretboard. The works.

And yes; side by side there's a difference in sound, but it's definitely not 5x difference.
I still can't believe that "cheap crap" like this, can sound and play the way that it does.

And BTW, I do own an 93 Gibson LP Custom + A top, which, at the time were supposedly the worst things Gibson had ever built. Well..... I suppose they outdid themselves this time. I think the value of my LP has definitely gone up.
Make me an offer ?

Sorry for taking this thread off-topic

You're an idiot. They used baked maple because it was a reasonable alternative while there were issues with getting quality, legit rosewood. Tell me how may baked maple LPs you played before you came to the conclusion that rosewood is ALWAYS better?

Sure, if I were buying a LP right now, I'd prefer rosewood, but you have to try the alternatives.

Also, not everyone wants grade AAA flamed maple. Gibson produce some guitars with highly figured tops and some without. So that point is, again, null and void.

It's been rare for a number of years, from any manufacturer, to get one piece bodies and necks. What world do you think we live in where mass manufacturers can source that quantity of wood, especially given the differences between two and one piece bodies or necks. Many high quality builders use multi piece bodies and necks for reasons of design, construction and stability. One piece =/= better.

Oh, and I bet anyone could tell the difference between a maple veneer and a proper flamed maple cap side by side. The difference really is night and day. Given the rant about material choices you just had, this comment seems so ironic.

Basically, be quiet.
Quote by Arby911
412 v. 212 and 50w v 20w are nearly the same, as regards perceived volume...(3db v 4db)

When talking about perceived volume, there will be a big difference between a 20W SS amp and a 50W valve (poweramp at least). Then take into account the mustang's...110/112 speaker, which is quite likely lower in efficiency than those found in a decent 212 (say a V30) and all of a sudden yes, the BS will be MUCH louder flat out.

However, when comparing similar 212s and 412s to pair with said 50W head the difference will be small, yes.

EDIT: Also to the guys who keep telling TS to get a 1 watt amp...shut up, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, if TS wants break up at gig volumes and doesn't mind the likelihood that a small amp will sound "smaller", yes, go recommend something small. But the idea that everyone should play a 1W head because you can use the PA system and turn them up more is absurd.

TS, do what 311 said.
1) It can be as loud or quiet as you want it to be. It has a volume knob. How good it sounds at low volumes is a different question, but decent amps usually sound decent even at low volumes. It will be CAPABLE of getting much louder than a 20 watt mustang.

2) 412s and 212s will not make the kind of volume difference you're expecting. They have different tonal properties yes, but volume wont notice at all. Choose the cab you can afford/be arsed carrying/think sounds best.

3) The HT-50 may not be the best choice. I haven't played one for a while, I thought it was ok. Just ok though. Guys on here can help you, I mean if you preferred it to everything else you tried then more power to you. I bought a Laney over the HT series Blackstars and I don't regret it. Cheaper too.
Quote by JakeLTD
you'd be surprised mate haha. The TH series are rare second hand and you wont find a thunderverb/rockerverb for less than £950 second hand and that's if you're lucky

Quote by ihartfood

edit: 270 pounds is something like $400. That's more than I'd ever pay for a classic 30, hell it's more than I paid for my Classic 50. I understand prices are higher in England but there may be something else that's more bang for your buck over there, like Laney or Orange.

Peavey's are more expensive here. Including a decent speaker swap and new valves that's a pretty good deal.

TS, those things are meant to be pretty solid. Peavey has a top reputation for making bomb proof products. If it's all working now I'd go for it.
Just curious, if you like the nailbomb, why not get that?
Proper Duncans are a definite upgrade over both the stock Hamer pups and Duncan Designed ones. If you like the way it plays I'd probably go for it. I remember there was a while where they were going new for £169, but I can't find anything off hand for less than £230 atm.
^^ Looks like an SATF, but I have a similar finished SATF, mine's made in Indonesia, has chrome hardware and Hamer own brand pups.

I'm not certain what model it is, I know there were some SATFs with Duncan Designed pups, but I'm not sure why a company selling relatively small volume would outsource to more than one different country.

How much is it? I like mine, but it's not worth all that much.
My old band's guitarist used a HB212 Vintage and the 112 version, both sounded decent and they seemed pretty well built, especially for the money, there were a couple of dings in the tolex but nothing scary, just wear and tear.
Definitely steer clear of the VR and go for a C2 or find a second hand CC. If you can stretch to a CCX then the Celestion Blues are the classic AC30 speaker, but you can always make a change later.

The CC has a tube rectifier but worse speakers, the C2 has a SS rectifier and greenbacks, but the construction is generally considered to be worse.

For a jangly, British voiced alternative, Laney make some nice, cheap stuff.
I know very little about Eminence speakers to be honest, though I think Private Jacks are pretty popular around here, and yeah, for £150 you can't go too far wrong. Especially since 4 PJs cost a chunk more than £150 :P Looks like they're British voiced, can't tell you what they'd be like, but I can't see it being a bad mix.

Again, you'd need someone else to chime in for more information, but I would get on that based purely on the price and the speakers :')

EDIT: ^ All of this haha
Private Jacks should be decent speakers, for £150 it looks a bargain. Can't tell you anything about its construction, but Genz Benz don't make anything nasty.

These usually have some vaguely interesting stuff on them. Every live video I've seen has been with 'buckers, but almost always pretty low output stuff (Burstbuckers or '57 classics). That lists a '64 SG with P90s which I believe he used more on Hypnotize and Mesmerize, as mentioned. On a lot of the early stuff Daron used all kinds of not-very-metal gear, including an SSS Strat. Recently, again iirc, he's generally used a Dual Rec.

Metal with P90s is definitely a thing, I remember the guitarist from Rolo Tomassi playing a P90 loaded SG through a Blackstar series 1, sounded fairly heavy.

One last thing, SOAD album guitar tone is boss (IMO) but there's a tonne of production and multiple tracks going on there, so don't get too hooked on trying to nail it.
I'd shoot for a used Laney VC15/30 or Cub, maybe a Vox Night Train or AC4. If SRV-esque sounds are more important, maybe look for a second hand Fender Blues Junior.
A lot of the CS strats have a 3 way switch, depends on whether they're period correct and the year of strat they're modeled after IIRC. It's a comparatively easy mod to make that a 5 way, though a lot of people with 3 ways say they can get pretty close to positions 2 and 4 with the tone and volume controls. However, as stated, a CS Fender has a lot more than just a sticker to differentiate it, so be careful.
Quote by iElle
I've 350 euros for the amp, 600 for the guitar.

Change those round and you'll do a lot better.

Look for a Fender classic player 50s/60s strat and something Marshall-y for the amp, maybe a DSL401, a Laney VC/GH or the Traynor YCV40 (I think that's the Marshall-y one)
Quote by souperman08
Can you show what pedal you're thinking of? Because I had a Behringer tuner for my first ever pedal tuner, and it was neither sturdy nor bright, and didn't work all that well. I might be thinking of a different one though.

This is what I have. It may be that we simply have differing expectations, but it seems fairly bright and solid, and my old band's guitarist used one for ages with no issues whatsoever. Sure it doesn't feel quite as rugged as some of the pedals that are 3x the price, but it's not going to suck all your signal, fall apart and spontaneously combust, and it does the job just fine.
I'm actually going to recommend Behringer here (bear with me guys). Most of their pedals are clones, of varying quality, the tuner being a Boss clone. It does the job perfectly well, sturdy, bright, mutes the signal and it's £20 brand new.