Behemoth Frontman In Court For Desecrating Bible

Adam "Nergal" Darski, the frontman of Polish extreme metal band Behemoth, has found himself in court over an incident involving the tearing up of a bible onstage.

Behemoth Frontman In Court For Desecrating Bible
0
Adam "Nergal" Darski, the frontman of Polish extreme metal band Behemoth, has found himself in court over an incident involving the tearing up of a bible onstage. According to Blabbermouth.com, the singer attended a hearing at the District Court in Gdynia, Poland after tearing up a bible, calling it "a book of lies" and labelling the Catholic Church as "the most murderous cult on the planet." The incident took place at a Behemoth show in Gdynia back in 2007. Darski, while giving evidence as a witness, claimed that his actions were not intended to hurt anyone and that he considered the act of ripping up the bible "an artistic metaphor": "I am a free man, living I hope in a free country. Although I do not publicly recognize the principles outlined in the Bible or the Ten Commandments, that does not mean that I am not a decent and useful human being." This is the second time that the band has come to court over this issue. While the case was originally dismissed in July of last year, the prosecution was granted an appeal which has seen the band return to court. TheAll-Polish Committee for Defense Against Sects is the body that has filed a suit against the group, accusing them of promoting Satanism. After his court appearance, the frontman issued the following statement via Metal Blade Records: "I spent five hours in the court in Gdynia today. The case is back on track and there's still a few witnesses to be interviewed. It's way too early to give any further comment. I just hope the final verdict is gonna be positive for me. I have a feeling that I'm in this situation for right reasons and I'm not giving up. Cross fingers! The battle ain't over yet" A video of the incident can be found at the following location:

289 comments sorted by best / new / date

comments policy
    James_Het_Rules
    Wow. Give the man a break. He just beat cancer, and now they're taking him to court for something he does on stage on a regular basis. Another example of why I hate religion. Too many people that have become pompous *****s about it. I hope some crazy black metal fans burn that court down.
    Pagan_Poetry
    "Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?" "Well this is kind of ironic"
    Glass Prisoner
    I had no idea you could be charged for this, let alone taken to court!?! This is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever heard. I don't even like Behemoth but I hope the dude gets out okay.
    darkwolf291
    nargoth wrote: I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
    Idk, think of all the witches burned/drowned, the crusades, etc.
    Scorpyin
    I've never personally persecuted someone for their beliefs. Sounds like you're doing enough of that for the both of us. Also, details of one's life can be altered. It wasn't until the 18th century that people actually started creating the mythology behind Horus (again)..which was "reimagined" by Roman Catholics to make it more accessible for the proselytizing masses.. I didn't ignore what you said, I'm simply stating that the things Jesus stood for.. and the things he did are infinitely different from Horus. Hence why I made the joke about the boat race. Horus' motivations for doing what he did were completely different from that of Jesus. And I brought up Shed because he was more like Jesus than Horus. Being the whole Savior backstory with the both of them. Shed was considered their "messiah" ..not Horus.
    But do you see all the conflict because of religion? Why have something when it's just another label to divide us? I know it's just a matter of different people make up the world and all, but religion is easily exploited unless the individual person is to make up their own philosohpy as opposed to choosing a religion formed by another person. I'm just trying to encourage people to develop their thought process. Fun fact: Jesus would've been histories first anarchist because he spread the idea of not using using force on your fellow man
    Cflobucket
    People aren't raging over this because it's the Bible, but because it's the holy instrument of the said religion. Honestly, Americans would ABSOLUTELY RAGE if someone burned the American flag, so why rip the Bible? Why would you tear the pages of what someone else believes to be holy and then go on to say it's "artistic"? How do you even say it's not intended to hurt people after you called it a book of lies and tore it apart? I hope you guys realize that most, if not all people (even the religious ones), would agree that what Catholics used to do to people who weren't with their point of view was WRONG. For some reason those against religion love to point it out but I really don't know why.
    Bryc3e
    WHY THE FUCK IS HE GOING TO COURT. Freedom of Religion you stupid ****s. Omg I hate Christianity so ****ing much.
    Slap-happy
    Organised religion is a hypocritical pox on the face of humanity, using weak minded and willed people some empty "hope" of salvation. Most are inherently full of contradictions and lies and all are responsible for acts of genocide, hatred, torture, suffering, bigotry and subterfuge. Why should any (mass) printed material be treated as more sacred or deserving of it's own rule than any other? Face it, the Yellow Pages is more useful to most people than any overly long story book that has been interpreted by malevolent forces to extract the meanings they want to suit their own ends. The Catholic church is one of the ricshest organisations in Europe, if not the world. Yet weekly they insist on handing out a plate to receive donations... If any conviction is passed because of this then it is a travesty of justice, a mockery of law and potentially orchestrated (and financed) by the church. Ridiculous.
    Phantasmasaurus
    Cflobucket wrote: People aren't raging over this because it's the Bible, but because it's the holy instrument of the said religion. Honestly, Americans would ABSOLUTELY RAGE if someone burned the American flag, so why rip the Bible? Why would you tear the pages of what someone else believes to be holy and then go on to say it's "artistic"? How do you even say it's not intended to hurt people after you called it a book of lies and tore it apart? I hope you guys realize that most, if not all people (even the religious ones), would agree that what Catholics used to do to people who weren't with their point of view was WRONG. For some reason those against religion love to point it out but I really don't know why.
    To one person, a baseball cap might be just as "sacred" as the Bible is to another. Don't you see a problem here? People can start religions and cults and claim that whatever they want is sacred, and that whatever they want is offensive. Why should we make exceptions for some groups and not others? Don't you realize that the very idea that people should have their own personal liberty to do what they want with their own property restricted is in itself offensive to some people? Sure, it might be insulting, but don't you realize how convoluted the law system would be if insulting people was made illegal? People need to learn that they don't have the freedom to not be offended, they only have the freedom to be mature enough to not be offended. I don't go around trying to prosecute Christians for ripping Sam Harris books. If you own something, you do with it what you want.
    emphaticleech
    Scorpyin wrote: emphaticleech wrote: Scorpyin wrote: emphaticleech wrote: Scorpyin wrote: xstatic44 wrote: jurnag12 wrote: nargoth wrote: I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did. *cough* crusades *cough* You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult? On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder. uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently... But why rip up a book full of parables which teach good morals? Why not confront the Church themselves? He wanted the churches attention, and he got it! I'm glad people are finally starting to wake up. GOD IS LIFE, YOU WORSHIP THE SUN FOR CHRIST SAKES, jesus is just a rehashed story from, older religions.. probably dating all the way back to cavemen worshiping the sun. Catholics/Christians go look up Horus, an Egyptian God, and tell me if you notice ANY similarities... Uhm. I think you're very confused. Jesus never had a boat race with anyone. That, and the savior in the Egyptian mythologies was Shed, not Horus.. and even then, Shed's story is actually completely different from Jesus'. The story of Jesus is actually one of the few things in the Bible that WASN'T taken from other mythologies. Well, except for the Savior aspect. But sure, you can pick at semantics and argue Noah's Ark was simply a re-telling of an old Greek mythos about when Zeus flooded the Earth from Olympus. But that's just it. The Bible, to me, is a book of parables... tales to inspire and teach morals. Much like the works of Vigil and Homer. way to ignore what i said, no im talking about horus not shed, http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jc... that's not my original reference, just one random result of many google search results. in either case, your religion teaches tolerance and freedom no? then why would you persecute another person for expressing themselves? religion has too much contradiction to be taken seriously in my eyes...
    I've never personally persecuted someone for their beliefs. Sounds like you're doing enough of that for the both of us. Also, details of one's life can be altered. It wasn't until the 18th century that people actually started creating the mythology behind Horus (again)..which was "reimagined" by Roman Catholics to make it more accessible for the proselytizing masses.. I didn't ignore what you said, I'm simply stating that the things Jesus stood for.. and the things he did are infinitely different from Horus. Hence why I made the joke about the boat race. Horus' motivations for doing what he did were completely different from that of Jesus. And I brought up Shed because he was more like Jesus than Horus. Being the whole Savior backstory with the both of them. Shed was considered their "messiah" ..not Horus.
    Scorpyin
    emphaticleech wrote: Scorpyin wrote: emphaticleech wrote: Scorpyin wrote: xstatic44 wrote: jurnag12 wrote: nargoth wrote: I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did. *cough* crusades *cough* You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult? On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder. uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently... But why rip up a book full of parables which teach good morals? Why not confront the Church themselves? He wanted the churches attention, and he got it! I'm glad people are finally starting to wake up. GOD IS LIFE, YOU WORSHIP THE SUN FOR CHRIST SAKES, jesus is just a rehashed story from, older religions.. probably dating all the way back to cavemen worshiping the sun. Catholics/Christians go look up Horus, an Egyptian God, and tell me if you notice ANY similarities... Uhm. I think you're very confused. Jesus never had a boat race with anyone. That, and the savior in the Egyptian mythologies was Shed, not Horus.. and even then, Shed's story is actually completely different from Jesus'. The story of Jesus is actually one of the few things in the Bible that WASN'T taken from other mythologies. Well, except for the Savior aspect. But sure, you can pick at semantics and argue Noah's Ark was simply a re-telling of an old Greek mythos about when Zeus flooded the Earth from Olympus. But that's just it. The Bible, to me, is a book of parables... tales to inspire and teach morals. Much like the works of Vigil and Homer.
    way to ignore what i said, no im talking about horus not shed, http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jc... that's not my original reference, just one random result of many google search results. in either case, your religion teaches tolerance and freedom no? then why would you persecute another person for expressing themselves? religion has too much contradiction to be taken seriously in my eyes...
    GasPipe
    He did it because he wanted a reaction, and he knew he would get one by doing something extreme like this. Why is everyone here surprised that he got a major reaction He shouldn't get imprisoned for it though, especially under the charge of "promoting satanism". That's a straw man if I ever saw one. Who cares anyway, we're all agnostic.
    Slaytan666
    Guano23 wrote: They are being sued from that? lol whats the actual charge? Yeah the world is going down the drain faster and faster. Maybe he should rape some little boy that wouldnt be so shocking to them.
    They'd probably make him an honorary priest.
    Phantasmasaurus wrote: Anyways, this whole case is ludicrous. Assuming he bought or obtained the Bible through legal means, it's his piece of property and he can do whatever he wants with it.
    My thoughts exactly.
    strat0blaster
    A man with opinions? AND he VOICED them? He must be evil. Especially if he doesn't agree with OUR opinions!
    emphaticleech
    Phantasmasaurus wrote: My point was merely that the argument he made is fallacious, because the position of atheists/rationalists is that religion is a form of irrationalism, not that it is the only form of irrationalism.
    Ah, so it's opinion. That's what that wall of text chalks up to. Cool.
    emphaticleech
    EpiExplorer wrote: emphaticleech wrote: arunawayslave wrote: Metal_Mesh wrote: Meanwhile in Poland.... No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous. Problem, freedom of speech? Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others. Roman 13:9 "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. " Do not to others what thou wouldn't not wish be done to thyself: Forgive injuries. Forgive thy enemy, be reconciled to him, give him assistance, invoke God in his behalf." Matthew 7:1 (if memory serves me correctly) "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: / Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." ....cut right through your bullshit, eh? Just to use this particular quote cuz... Okay, in the end, its just your crap verses our crap, so its all crap, Nergal doesn't even need to rip a bible up for anyone to realise it. STOP FIGHTING OVER WHO'S ANSWER TO THE UNIVERSE BEATS WHOS, IT DOES NOT MATTER, IF THEY ARE BOTH MADE BY HUMANS, THEN THEY ARE BOTH EQUALLY FLAWED, STUPID, BELLIGERENT AND POINTLESS. The dude just got over cancer, at least have some restraint.
    I was just pointing out in the flaw in his argument. Claiming the bible promotes people "to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others." .. And I don't care if Nergal had cancer. If he's well enough to rip apart a book, then he's well enough to take a few people commenting about him on the intrawebz. My only problem with this, is the fact he ripped a bible. Not because I think it's a holy object.. but because it perplexes me. Why a bible? Why not ACTUALLY do something proactive? Like actually confronting a church? Perhaps trying to have civilized debate with a priest? Anything less childish than ripping up some paper on stage.
    Phantasmasaurus
    emphaticleech wrote: Phantasmasaurus wrote: My point was merely that the argument he made is fallacious, because the position of atheists/rationalists is that religion is a form of irrationalism, not that it is the only form of irrationalism. Ah, so it's opinion. That's what that wall of text chalks up to. Cool.
    False. There's no way that "it's opinion" is equivocal with that statement.
    Tsunami3000
    jurnag12 wrote: nargoth wrote: I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did. *cough* crusades *cough*
    this+1
    Shun1010
    "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
    Shun1010
    nargoth wrote: I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
    I'm pretty sure the catholic church has protected more child molesters than stalin ever did,
    Shun1010
    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
    The_Jayroh
    I wonder who was at the concert that ratted them out. Then again I could see some Holiness preacher here in America that would go to a metal show just to pick out everything that God would hate about this band so he could brand all metal as devil worshipers. Too bad God already condemned ALL of mankind after Adam ate the apple.
    Emenius Sleepus
    arunawayslave wrote: Metal_Mesh wrote: Meanwhile in Poland.... No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous. Problem, freedom of speech? Poland has anti-blasphemy laws. Retarded? Yeah. Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others. It teaches people to satisfy themselves not knowing the world, to believe in fairy tales. Fuck. That. I'm sick of all the ****ing comments "well, he shouldn't have done that, he should have known this would happen!" - **** you. This is how history gets rewritten, social norms get challenged and society progresses as a whole. Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" got charged as being obscene at the time of its release (it talked about sex, homo and hetero, among other things the "moral majority" loves to parrot about in between fantasizing about white Jesus) in America and went all the way to the highest court - where would we be if they had ruled against him? Everyone claiming that he shouldn't have done this is no better than the ****ing mullahs in Iran issuing fatwas against Salman Rushdie for criticizing their illogical, irrational, pedophilic, slave religion. Whoops...am I just talking about Islam or all of the Abrahamic religions...seems I've forgotten. Ideas are not above criticism. Ideas do not intrinsically deserve respect. They EARN respect. Religion has done nothing to earn my respect.
    Fantastic. Best post here, easily. What Nergal has done is by no means new, but assuming he is genuine in his conviction, expressing his view should, in a perfect world, remain without reprimand from the court or some political body. In a perfect world. - The ones on the other end are welcome to disagree, sure. But the other point commonly made yet unheeded, is that the symbols and institutions of the major religions such as Christianity or Islam - cause far more offence to a person who disagrees with those systems, because they're integrated into our everyday culture and widely accepted - so you're forced to contend with them. Which would be fine if you didn't get murdered or sued for criticizing them. - Nergal, as a citizen of Poland and - assuming - a thoughtful individual with developed critical thinking - has every right to express his distaste with what he disagrees with. Furthermore, seeing as it was a performance, a theatrical presentation of those views is the most direct way of demonstrating his views on the issue. Whether Polish legislation agrees or not, is irrelevant.
    S.D.M.F.
    Why should anything come of this... he didn't do it on live television or some kind of religious gathering. He did it a Behemoth concert. If anybody was that much of a religious nut, to the point of being offended by this act, they wouldn't be listening to Behemoth anyway.
    Phantasmasaurus
    Stalin and Mao did not kill in the name of a religion, but they followed an extremely dogmatic set of values. They were basically cults of personality. And to those quoting bible verses, you are cherry picking the few parts that don't give permission to stone and kill people.
    + This.
    Cantplay4penuts
    x0vincent0x wrote: i live in Holland, and a couple of months ago it was discoverd that thousands of children were raped by catholic priests. And now not even 1 percent of those priests had to go to court FOR RAPING CHILDREN!!! (i dont like behemoth's music, but when i think about these things i start listening to them)
    well FUCK. There you go.
    simpleben09
    Protip: the laws that are in america aren't the same everywhere in the world. Poland is extremely catholic, with over 90% of the population being catholic. So seeing how the majority is that big for just one religion, it would be hard to imagine that it would have no influence on their laws over there
    Phantasmasaurus
    Also, the whole concept of "political correctness" just falls apart in this context. Who is going to be "offended" by him ripping up a Bible? Are there any Christians going to some Behemoth show in Poland, and if so, why? I imagine the majority of people there must share a somewhat similar mindset to the band. Isn't the idea that they shouldn't be allowed to tear up a Bible "offensive" to the majority of the people there? Stupid logic is stupid.
    Mark Roxx
    What justification do they have for bringing him to court for using his freedom to express his opinion?
    zatara92
    he ripped the bible at a concert, where like minded fans came to see his band, so i dont think it should be an issue.if he ripped it in public that wouldnt be ok
    thetoasteroven
    to everyone defending the bible you do realize that throughout centuries popes,kings,queens,scribes,cardinals etc.have made changes to fit what they think not to mention lots of it have undoutably been lost in translation after translation so even if athiests and everyone aside from jesus are wrong your not defending what the original authors had intended.
    Metalingus96
    arunawayslave wrote: Metal_Mesh wrote: Meanwhile in Poland.... No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous. Problem, freedom of speech? Poland has anti-blasphemy laws. Retarded? Yeah. Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others. It teaches people to satisfy themselves not knowing the world, to believe in fairy tales. Fuck. That. I'm sick of all the ****ing comments "well, he shouldn't have done that, he should have known this would happen!" - **** you. This is how history gets rewritten, social norms get challenged and society progresses as a whole. Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" got charged as being obscene at the time of its release (it talked about sex, homo and hetero, among other things the "moral majority" loves to parrot about in between fantasizing about white Jesus) in America and went all the way to the highest court - where would we be if they had ruled against him? Everyone claiming that he shouldn't have done this is no better than the ****ing mullahs in Iran issuing fatwas against Salman Rushdie for criticizing their illogical, irrational, pedophilic, slave religion. Whoops...am I just talking about Islam or all of the Abrahamic religions...seems I've forgotten. Ideas are not above criticism. Ideas do not intrinsically deserve respect. They EARN respect. Religion has done nothing to earn my respect.
    Quoting because it was completely ignored. Also, ATHEISM is NOT A RELIGION. Stalin and Mao did not kill in the name of a religion, but they followed an extremely dogmatic set of values. They were basically cults of personality. And to those quoting bible verses, you are cherry picking the few parts that don't give permission to stone and kill people.
    indyrock91
    No need to hate christianity. I'm a Christian, and while I am a little offended someone would do that, it certainly isn't grounds for a trial. Believe what you want as long as you dont preach hatred against others
    peachesenregali
    nargoth wrote: I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
    You'd be surprised...
    '93
    but hes still an ***** to do it...im not muslim or jew but i dont burn their teachings...the guys a total freak, just look at him. sure the catholic church isnt perfect (far from it, i personally disagree with many of its teachings) ut to do something like that is basically to insult millions of people. its one thing considering freedom of speech but fact is its not ok to do actions like that its descrimination. people tend to forget that its not only an act against the church its an act against all of its memeber, people that have nothing to do with the running of it
    georgebushguy79
    '93 wrote: meh hes pathetic and stupid...hjust trying to get some ar=ttentio by offending millions pf people
    That's EXACTLY what I thought. So many people on here believed organized religion is a terrible thing. It can be a good thing when what they do things right. But ripping a Bible in public like that?? Kudos to Poland for standing up for their beliefs!
    nobadnews
    emphaticleech wrote: nobadnews wrote: Its been shown and proven that the very high ups in the Catholic church are shuffling around preists and taking no steps to achieve justice when they ignore the law of the country they are in. They are just as guilty as the ones molesting the children for letting it happen. Alrighty. But burden of proof is on you, and I expect some sort of documented proof about the higher ups took NO steps for justice. Even though when the highly publicize slew of molestations was happening in the late 1990s, those priests were punished ... mainly fired. Again, I don't see how that makes ALL Catholics accountable for what the few are doing.
    You could use the arguement that all catholics are accountable because they give money to the church and the church uses this money to hid priests. I don't believe all catholics are responsible just the church itself because i think that people have good intentions about sending their money to the church and don't expect it to be used in this manner. Here is a link to news story about a letter written by then future pope stalling a trail for a child molestor. I could find more but this is all the time i have to spend on the computer today and i have to go back to work. Bye http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/09... -stalled-chi_n_532073.html
    Clayden82
    unnamedplayer wrote: Clayden82 wrote: Im fed up with people and bands confusing catholics and Christians, two different faiths. Don't blame Christianity for what catholics have done. And idiots like him calling the Bible a book of lies shows how much he actually knows about the Bible! Lol, you must be from America? Catholics re true Christians. The rest are just split off groups. Know your (Late Roman-Renaissance) history dude.
    What makes u think im from America. Im from England. Catholics are not true Christians because they believe in false teachings that are not from the Bible and they do not have any real love for Jesus in their hearts. If they do then that makes them a Christian, but you cannot be both. Jesus said in the Bible "You are either with me or against me" (Matthew 12:30)
    fender--player1
    all these comments bashing the Church are truly shocking. i cant believe this many people are so confused. i pray for you all
    cteez910
    Clayden82 wrote: What makes u think im from America. Im from England. Catholics are not true Christians because they believe in false teachings that are not from the Bible and they do not have any real love for Jesus in their hearts. If they do then that makes them a Christian, but you cannot be both. Jesus said in the Bible "You are either with me or against me" (Matthew 12:30)
    You realize Catholicism was first right? And also, Anglican is just reformed Catholicism...
    Clayden82
    fender--player1 wrote: all these comments bashing the Church are truly shocking. i cant believe this many people are so confused. i pray for you all
    Amen to that!!
    Clayden82
    If you're catholic you believe you do not have a direct line of commnication to God but "holy" men like the pope and priests do, there for you must talk through them to talk to god and tell him your sins. Mary and the pope are not gods to catholics. The belief that the bible (which is written by man) is the ultimate authority was not common well into the 16th and 17th century. [/quote] This does not come from the Bible at all, this is more false teaching that the catholics participate in. What the Bible says is that once you accept Christ as your Lord and saviour you are sinnles and you are fully reconciled to God. I never said muslims believe Jesus is God, thats why i said they believe in "a different Jesus" just like the Bible says. And if you knew the true ins and outs of the Bible then you wouldnt be saying that it is written by man
    swave75
    He should have tore up a phone book. That would have been impressive!!!
    unnamedplayer
    Clayden82 wrote: Im fed up with people and bands confusing catholics and Christians, two different faiths. Don't blame Christianity for what catholics have done. And idiots like him calling the Bible a book of lies shows how much he actually knows about the Bible!
    Lol, you must be from America? Catholics re true Christians. The rest are just split off groups. Know your (Late Roman-Renaissance) history dude.
    Starskream0
    This is just weak. The fact that the Catholic Church has nothing better to do is sad. What happened to world hunger and poverty and all that other stuff. But instead they want to use their time to attempt to trample the rights of a man who is differant then them. If there is a god he probly hates most Catholics today. I for one am no stranger to the fact that people exclude those who are differant purely on the basis that they believe if your differant your wrong. Lol wtf were the guys that wrote the bible thinking is all I can say.