Black Veil Brides: 'Metal Scene Has Eaten Itself Alive in Last 20 Years'

Frontman Andy Biersack names Avenged Sevenfold bashing as prime example of metal community's "dark side."

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Metal community can be quite ruthless to newcomers or uprising trends and according to Black Veil Brides frontman Andy Biersack, it has been cannibalizing itself for the past two decades. Discussing Robb Flynn's Avenged Sevenfold bashing, All that Remains' jabs at his own band and metal fans in general, Andy commented: "There is nothing more cannibalistic than metal or hard rock scene, it seems. And people wonder why aren't we selling millions of records or why we're not at the top of pop and everything. "It's because in my estimation, we have eaten ourselves alive for the last 20 years," Biersack further told Artisan News. "The genre itself, the feeling of if something gets successful, that's bashed. Or in case of Avenged Sevenfold - how ridiculous is it that one of our own got a No. 1 record and is doing all this wonderful stuff and everyone feels the need to say something negative to them." The singer continued, "It's a real testament to the dark side, in my estimation, of the metal community or the hard rock community. People don't want success for the things they don't necessarily love and also it's really commonplace for metal fans to not give new bands a chance. It's just - it is. "The 'Black Album' still sells more than - not saying that it's not an amazing album, but the 'Black Album' still sells more copies than any record that is put out every single week [by new bands]. And it's not to say that any new band's put out a record that's as good as the 'Black Album,' but I don't think people are really ready to give it a chance," Biersack concluded. Black Veil Brides will kick off their European tour later this month to promote the latest studio effort "Wretched and Divine: the Story of the Wild Ones."

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Is the metal community as cannibalistic as Andy claims? Let us know in the comments.

128 comments sorted by best / new / date

    Mr Winters
    Also, good job missing the entire point and choosing to just shit on BVB instead, everyone. I haven't even listened to his music but the guy does have a point here.
    He does have a point. Most metal fans are very conservative, bands they listen to are the best, all the rest is crap. If someone gets to #1 -> sellouts and posers. After that, they whine about how the genre is dying. As a rock concert manager and musician, I can say, that rock/metal has the cheapest crowd of all. Not only do most visit their specific favourite bands, they demand the tickets for free or for way less than the band itself is worth/costs. No wonder electronic music and others are taking over.
    Pictured in the comments: Tragic Irony.
    Exactly, this band may be one of the shitiest excuses for music, but they are on the mark with this, metal has become so derivative in the last decade, everytime there is a new "scene" bands just copy one another incessantly, originality is lacking.
    Everyone is complaining about what metal "should" be, and i'm just sitting here enjoying the Melvins....
    BVB are the worst thing to ever happen to metal, if you can even call them metal
    Although I too don't like his music, he really has got a point. In a way you're proving it. There's loads of these 'bad' bands, and people are really quick to judge and put down these bands. For some people, these bands are the ones (such as BVB) who are introducing a lot of young people (just like bands like MCR did a few years back, not metal but the point stands) to heavier music. And my personal opinion is that should be encouraged. This is why metal is eating itself - through elitism of stupid sub-genres.
    Legend Jedicsc
    Seriously why doesn't he have the gold? It doesn't matter if BVB are good or not, the dude has a point and we are ALL guilty of it as we stuck in our own little rut of what we think metal should be. Which is totally against what the genre stood for to begin with, not doing something everybody wants.
    We all are sheep in some form. In this context, people hear 'BVB are sht' so they listen to that, but not the music. Some are too afraid to be different and be open minded. Of course, BVB are sht if you compare them to metal bands, but to rock, they're decent because they don't make metal music. I wish some people would get that... Btw, when it comes to this sort of following, I too am a sheep: never going to listen to Justin Bieber in my life (not intentionally anyway...).
    Your point is very relevant, to the fact that BVB don't classify their-selves as a metal band, just Rock and Roll. The accusations of all these sub genres are ridiculous as all these bands get hate for something they aren't. I personally love BVB's music and in such topics as interviews, they point out they aren't metal but rock and roll.
    I agree. I hate these guys and their music, but honestly the guy has a very good point and I agree with a lot of what he said. We do need to accept new bands or at least give them a chance.
    Elitism and sub-genres has never harmed Metal before, ever. Metal fans have been hating genres since Disco. Look at the 80s, one of the most "elitist" era of Metal. There was an all-out war against MTV-spawned Pop Rock/"Glam Metal". You'd have hated it, of course, but the 80s were also one of the most creative eras out of Metal's history, seeing to the creation or perfection of almost every sub-genre of Metal. And that was with guys like Paul Baloff and such demanding the death of posers. And who honestly believes Metal is eating itself? It's going as strong as it ever has, and the only people who think Metal is taking a beating or dying are the ones who are into Top 10 Metal and nothing more, the ones who whine about elitism, and the ones that "elitists" (read: literally anyone into Metal that goes deeper than "I read Metal Hammer") don't want in Metal. They only think Metal is dying because they know so little about it. These aren't the people you see at small, local shows, supporting real modern Metal bands. These are the people you see going to Judas Priest, or Amon Amarth, and supporting already-big, already-known Metal bands that formed 15, 20, 30 years ago. Metal is fine, has always been fine, and will always be fine, and it doesn't need crappy Pop Rock that people think is Metal to keep it fine.
    I honestly started right with the heavy stuff because the only radio station I could get was death metal.
    I can't even understand why metal listeners get so pissed off by them (I couldn't give two shits about them), they aren't even metal! If they are metal, then the Dalai Lama is an anarchist.
    Well the Dalai Lama is less authoritarian than a lot of influential figures. But he also doesn't strike me as a BVB fan anyways.
    I was gonna say something, but the thought of the Dalai Lama as a BVB fan was just too funny
    People who don't like metal anyway don't care for silly subgenres. Thing is, those people are the 'millions' that don't buy metal records, which the guy is probably talking about. So it doesn't really matter whether they are 'true' metal or not.
    I don't understand this statement. Who the hell cares what happens to metal? It's not a society, it's a music genre, how can something bad happen to a music genre? From someone who is a former metal-head, the reason why the rest of the world sees you guys in a negative perception is completely because of elitist and immature opinions like that. In the real world, no one cares about what is tr00 meTalz. His point is valid, people like you are the reason why the rest of society won't tolerate an intolerable group of people. It's people like you that try to stop people from enjoying whatever the hell it is they want to listen to, by trying to impose your belief of what's 'real metal'. Where else in the world do you see that?
    You just say that because of their looks and their fanbase x) I don't really like them, but have you even listened to them? Their guitarists are really ****ing talented...
    They're a damn good f*ckin band. Who gives a sh*t about what they look like. They're still making good nd catchy metal/rock/whatever the **** you wanna call it music. They've been consistent with album releases. They can dress however the f*ck they want. You look at KISS or Motley Crue. They dressed up nd wore make up nd what not, but they didn't care what people thought. What you look like or act like doesn't particularly matter. Go f*uckin look up GG Allin. Hes f*ckin nuts. He didnt give a sh*t. And hes probably got an army of dedicated fans. Just like all these bands everyone hates.
    Do you play guitar because that shit is easy and there's many vids of him messing up even the easy shit live.
    F*ck yea i play guitar. Nd surely you know you always have tendencies to f*ck up, even the easy shit. Unless its consistent. Then you'd need to practice up, or stop drinking on stage.
    I like their music. I can see why you don't like them, but the worst thing to happen to metal? explain more on that.
    is a mixture between ratt and crue not metal???
    Metal covers so many areas now. I never actually know what genre to call a band. All this metal-core and progressive-nu-punk-metal-core nd sh*t. Its all metal/rock at the core of it. Everything else is just technicalities.
    Call me whatever, but I was into Ratt and Crue in the mid 80s, big time. I loved Queensryche, Metallica and Motorhead too. There was some good music then, and a lot of bashing of any band by anyone not in that band!
    I know this is going to be downvoted, but... I think this guy has a point (although he makes pretty awful music).
    Agreed. BVB are embarrassingly bad, but I'll never understand the metal community's pure hatred for Avenged Sevenfold. Yeah, it's entry level metal, but you need entry level bands for every genre and they're damn good at what they do.
    Agreed. BVB are embarrassingly bad, but I'll never understand the metal community's pure hatred for Avenged Sevenfold. Yeah, it's entry level metal, but you need entry level bands for every genre and they're damn good at what they do.
    Masta' Exploda'
    I have no hatred for A7X, and i really like their previous albums, but Hail to the King is really weaker than the rest of their discography. Yet, by being weaker for a metal album, it still gives a great album compared to commercial standards, which explains the sucess it had in the mainstream. Much of the hate they got for this album was because it sounds like a complete rip off of classic metal bands like Metallica and Megadeth...
    "There is nothing more cannibalistic than metal or hard rock scene, it seems. And people wonder why aren't we selling millions of records or why we're not at the top of pop and everything." Maybe, just maybe, because most metal is not as accessible as your average pop-to-go? Really, this guy...
    I really like, A7X, the harmony solos, and especially, the strippers. What's not to like?!
    BVB is just another band that is cool to hate. They're young and their songwriting is a little underdeveloped. Give them time. As for being against the bands image...**** off. The image of metal bands is far too homogenized as it is (on average). I'll support ANY band image that has the potential to bring more females to the genre.
    Judging by some of the comments he's not wrong. It seems if you like certain bands that are classed as metal you're not 'a true metal fan' Heck like someone said some of the bands like Avenged Sevenfold and Black Veil Brides are gateway bands to other bands and there's nothing wrong with that.
    BVB... not much of a fan there. However; I'm a big enough man to respect acts even if I don't like them. Unlike most of the prissy users on this website. He's talking about all of you. You sub-genre elitist. You pick and choose who to hate, and coincidentally it happens to be rock bands that sell records. Rock needs to finish dieing, then stay there until the rest of you morons die. Then it can come back. Sadly, I won't personally alive to see that day. Thank God that at least Dave Grohl and The Foo Fighters are immune to your bullshit.
    Im no BVB fan, but until the nonsensical black album rambling, the guy's kinda got a point...
    In last avenged sevenfold "we're metal. really you guys" article someone commented that bvb are ax7 for teen emo chicks. I bet that person will facepalm himself to coma after seeing this
    i dont like black veil brides, its nothing personal, but their music, just straight up isn't really imaginative. all that to say he's not wrong, bits of metal are destroying it, but they're only destroying those bits which actually care about what people say. the rest of them, who truly do love metal will carry on making it no matter what, so hes right but its not necessarily a bad thing, if you get what im saying. probably gonna get ripped for this, but still. and if BVB are one of those bands who are around after all the people rip on them, because they do love metal? so be it, they'll have prved themselves
    This whole thing about the metal community is very true. Metal fans bash the old bands for being sell outs, bash the new ones for wanting success. The metal community refuses to move past the early 1990s as a whole. All I've read is people ripping into other bands or people with the language that screams '13 year old' or 'I hate anything new because it isn't old'. This is the reason I stopped being a metal head because the culture around it just does not allow for development and experimentation beyond getting heavier. Get your heads out of your asses and deal with the fact metal moves on, a lot get it wrong, but some get it right and those are the ones that suffer because they cannot release an album due to new metal bands not getting cover or contracts due to elitist metal douchebags who refuse you if you aint a 70s-early 90s reunion or headliner. So who would bother releasing a fresh album the metal community will inevitably bash only to praise another Slayer rip off.
    avenged sevenfold is not what it used to be before the rev died.. that's a fact. their last album really disappointed me.
    Metal is metal deal with it. Whether it's Black Veil Brides, Bullet for my Valentine, Carcass, Gorgoroth, Metallica,Black Sabbath, Cannibal Corpse, Arch Enemy, Amon Amarth, Asking Alexandria, Slayer, Venom, Cancer Bats, Of Mice and Men, Bring Me the Horizon, Suicide Silence, Behemoth, Megadeth or even Five Finger Death Punch. They are still metal. I listen to every single one of these bands listed and I like them all because they are metal. Fuck you all and your high and mighty true metal sub genre bullshit.
    I can understand that people might mistake Metallic Hardcore (Shorthand: Metalcore) as Metal, considering all the big labels marketing it as such, despite it being a Punk sub-genre since the early 90s when bands like Converge started playing it.. But Black Veil Brides, a blatantly obvious Pop-leaning Hard Rock band, Metal? Seriously? Why do Metal fans constantly need to call everything Metal, even long-standing Punk sub-genres like Hardcore (TIL Cancer Bats and Dead Kennedys are Metal), Metalcore, and Deathcore? I can't wait for people to start calling Amebix and Nasum Metal bands.
    BVB are horrible imo,i don't mind a7x at all. But in Australia bands like Amity Affliction, Northlane, and Parkway Drive have been making it to #1 in ARIA charts over mainstream pop, and people don't bash it here for being popular now like others do, it's embraced and seen as a huge win for heavier music that it's gaining some widespread recognition inb4 hate on amity, northlane and pwd lol
    Amity Affliction are basically non-existent outside of Australia. Northlane are an entry djent kind of band and are EXTREMELY overrated. Not calling them shit, i actually like Northlane, but they're rose to success in Australia way too soon for a band that isn't very innovative. Parkway Drive don't get hate because what have they said or done to get any hate? They've stuck to their same style for ten years, they say nothing the media will consider juicy and they wear ****ing flip-flops and boardshorts when they play live on stage.
    "And people wonder why aren't we selling millions of records or why we're not at the top of pop and everything." It's because you suck
    Mr Winters
    He's talking about metal as a whole, not specifically about his band.
    Which is easy enough to answer. It's a loud, abrasive fringe genre that was never meant to sell millions. Even if it was, there's still the vocal anti-commercial/mainstream sentiment that has been a large part of the Metal world since at least the late 70s and early 80s when Metal and Punk started influencing each other, that almost no one has ever had a problem with. No one ever wonders why Metal bands don't make it rich, and the only ones who care are usually ones whose experience in Metal barely scratches the surfaces, and they only care because Top of the Pops Metal bands are the only Metal bands they know. It's really pretty simple. Metal isn't a popular genre. You can see that by just considering the fact that there's over 93, 000 Metal bands listed on Metal-Archives, and only 20 of them, and I'm sure I'm being generous, have been mentioned or will ever be mentioned in a non-Metal magazine or website. The only Metal bands to ever become truly popular were lucky or they had good management.
    gonna go out on a limb and say he was referring to the metal community, not just himself. not that i like a7x (or bvb for that matter), but it is a generally valid point. as much as we in the community may not like the record, we as members of the community should be glad that at least SOMETHING is making it into the ranks of the top 40 these days.
    There's a reason why Metallica doing well in the charts always goes down well with metalheads and not Avenged or BVB. I don't know specifically why but maybe it's because Hetfield and co are just being themselves musically and being humble about their status as biggest metal band on the planet. Avenged on the other hand neither sound original with their new album, nor do they seem to shut up about wanting to be the biggest band in the world. As for Black Veil Brides, their music isn't really that bad but their image just makes them hard to take seriously and their frontman is a hypersensitive muppet who can't handle being criticised for it (reference many bottling at festivals and the Golden Gods incident)
    I saw BVB in october. Beirsack said on stage that people call him an emo fa ggot all the time, he then said "If being an emo fa ggot means i get to play my music, i'll be the biggest emo fa ggot there is. I'm pretty sure their image comes from some of the band members being bullied for years while they were in school.
    "I don't know specifically why but maybe it's because Hetfield and co are just being themselves musically and being humble about their status as biggest metal band on the planet." Lars Ulrich, humble? Ha.
    Anty 7
    People rip on Avenged Sevenfold simply because both their music and ethos really aren'tt metal at all. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, until they start selling millions of albums and being called one of the biggest metal acts. Now you have a problem, because A7X will headline festivals and bring fans that aren't metal fans at all. I do understand metal needs gateway bands or whatever, it's good to bring new fans, but it's not elitism when you're tired of all these negative aspects concerning bands like A7X. Good for them if they sell records, but please get off my metal blogs and festivals. Wasn't it on UG recently where there was a study saying (among other things) that metalheads preferred individuality ? At the same moment, we have A7X headlining with "Metal's Taken A Beating, We Want To Make It Dangerous Again". Now that is a joke.
    I feel as if somewhere throughout the years, the lines of metal began to blur. Sure, they're not the heaviest band out there, and they don't burn down churches, but to say Avenged ISN'T a metal band is a joke. The substance isn't metal? How? They write about the same thematic things that every other metal band writes about... Fantasy and anti-religious driven stories. They have always drawn huge influences from bands like Metallica, Pantera, Iron Maiden, and Guns N Roses, for their entire career (much to the dismay of metal fans). If Avenged aren't metal, than what are they? Hard rock because they sing? Iron Maiden sings. Metallica sings. Megadeth sings. I don't understand how one of the most obvious metal band out there today is so often hailed as "not being metal" because... why? Their music isn't filled with breakdowns and screaming like Lamb of God? Because they don't sound like Mastodon? Go see this band live and you'll see that they're up there with the best of them.
    A7X are metal, from image to sound, the difference is style, strictly speaking they are part of the NWOAHM, which love it or loath it, is part of the metal genre. Metal heads prefer individuality in their fans, they tend to shirk individuality in bands. For evidence of that look at what happens when any metal band changes direction in music, and what band images are acceptable, shit most bands post-pantera wore Camos at least once, then the sleeveless shirt/t shirt. Metal fans want superficial individuality in their bands (not all, but for a large majority) because without cliché there is nothing familiar, and with nothing familiar people generally turn off, hence why in every genre you always get some variation of a vi-IV-I-V progression.
    Anty 7
    I would say their sound is metal, but not the substance. harmonically speaking, A7X is not metal. NWOAHM doesn't mean anything, everyone from LoG to Killswitch get put in there. Would you say they are similar to A7X? I do get what you are saying though, especially about the image thing. I just think it's hypocritical to criticize metal fans for bashing A7X. The most vocal ones are people who listen to death/thrash/black or whatever and don't want their beloved music associated with a hard rock act. The solution is this, don't bash the artists, bash the fans haha
    Tbf in my original post I did not explicitly mention A7X at all, though they are a good example. Metal flows from Black Sabbath to Van Halen to Poison to Death, maaaassive differences. NWOAHM does have a certain style, complex double kick drumming, more complex riffs, dropped tuning, guitar harmony in riffs (which is stylistically similar on the most part), the twin guitar line-up. Essentially look at the Roadrunner United album and that involves pretty much the entire NWOAHM scene, yes there are diversities, same was true for NWOBHM, especially when you look at Def Leppard and Iron Maiden, but there was a general consensus in most areas. I do not really care which bands people like or dislike, that is their own choice and opinion, but when fans complain about metal losing its diversity and strength while they simultaneously go out of their way in the droves to bash any new band trying to make a difference, it really shows this article has a massive true point, and yes, the fans are the real problem (mostly).
    Well, when the people playing the "metal" or shitcore (respectfully named) and wearing snapbacks and contact lenses, then nobody who really enjoys the roots of metal will enjoy that garbage. The new style of metal and a lot of music for that matter is just a bunch of faggots who are trying to get the cash cow and everything that follows. Its bullshit. Not to mention how whiny the sound is and how forced it is, then of course we're gonna be bashing on it. Might as well call yourselves teen werewolves you ****ing douchebags.
    Even though this guy's statement is a bunch of bull, you still managed to prove his point. Congratulations!
    Whilst I dislike bvb, this guy has made a really good point. As soon as a metal band gets big, people start bashing on them. Over the past year I've seen so many people bashing a7x, Dream Theater and Amon Amarth, and why? Because they're popular. Its sad that metalheads feel the need to bash other metal bands.
    I can't stand BVB, but what he said about the divide in metal isn't exactly wrong...
    All I know is that MOST metal guitarists are very arrogant when it comes to their own playing (always got to be loud as hell, shred solo over everything, even when it doesn't fit, play solos where there are none etc etc etc) They look down on other types of rock that don't fit their criteria. Put down other players who don't play like they do. I love metal music but I'm not surprised that they would be eating their own. Its hard to survive when your own kind are ripping you at every opportunity.
    People don't condemn chart-topping metal bands because they succeed. They do it because most of those bands have to sacrifice their integrity (and usually the very elements that made them good in the first place) in order to get there. Personally, I feel that if you're in it to become a rock star then power to you. Who cares if a bunch of elitist douche bags don't dig your sound? But if you change the things people like about you in order to become more famous then you're sticking it to your most loyal fans while appealing to a mass of musically challenged trend sheep. I know I'm making some pretty broad generalizations here, but I just want to make clear that it is not success that drives fans away, but the choices the artist makes to achieve it.
    There's great metal bands around today anyway, all that Sludge and Prog Metal is where I go for modern metal like Mastodon.
    I do see merit to his point but I dont completely agree. Most people start to dislike a band because their music starts to be created for what the general consumer wants rather than what really comes from their soul. While they may lose their loyal fans, they make it up with the fans they get from the mainstream audience. It all comes down to how a writer views the music that he creates. Is it the creation of art or is it a business?
    Who cares if you're metal or not? Make music for the sake of doing music. Genres are made to fit music in categories, not to take it as a way of living your life.
    Black veil brides are even shitter than suicide silence, they should all just drop like flies
    Black Veil Brides are horrible, but there is a difference between them and Suicide Silence. That difference is that Suicide Silence actually puts out decent music and Black Vile Brides are, again, shitty pop metal trying to be metalcore.
    to be fair, black veil brides have a few catchy riffs, its just a shame about everything else !!
    Though they did rip off As I Lay Dying's riff from Forever in BVB's song Let You Down (or whatever it's called). Otherwise, yeah, good riffs. Lyrics are more volatile
    BvB is a metal band lol.... However I will agree with one thing he said "I don't think people are really ready to give it a chance" Alot of people are shy of listening to anything past their comfort zone which is why music is what it is today. But don't listen to BvB just don't
    They're glam metal (somewhere I read), but that's being too nice. They are heavy rock if anything. They got heavy riffs, etc. but I personally would never consider them to be metal. Just my opinion
    Wait..what? People who listen to metal have opinions about other people? WHY ARE THEY SO DIFFERENT TO EVERYBODY ELSE?!!!?121
    Let him shut his mouth please. BVB is so un-metal that this statement would've made more sense when Katy Perry said it or something.
    Metal isn't eating itself alive. People have been claiming Metal is dead/dying/killing itself since they proclaimed Pantera was "the saviour of Metal", which occurred at the same time that Death Metal, Black Metal, and Progressive Metal were pushing the genre in new and far better directions. The only reason it looks like Metal is dying to some people is because they're the kind of people who are barely even scratching the surface of Metal. It's easy to think Metal is going the way of the Dodo when the only bands you know are already established bands from 20 to 40 years ago, or are bands that were pushed by big-name labels to cash in on flavour-of-the-decade trends since day one. It's not the fault of Metal fans around the world that some people are stuck in the mainstream Metal world or refuse to leave.
    Its because bands that sell that well generally put out watered-down poop-metal that caters to chicks, not because "we've eaten ourselves alive". Who would ****in complain if Necrophagist sold so many records? No one.
    Necrophagists is to blame for Technical Death Metal becoming essentially a cesspool of 2technical4u drivel played over generic Death Metal that was probably written 15 minutes before recording. They're not watered-down poop-metal, but they're just as bad, so I imagine a lot of people would complain if they became any more over-hyped as they are now.
    I've been supporting many 'new' metal bands! Like The Darkness, Steel Panther, Skull Fist, Enforcer, Halestorm and many more! It's just that Avenged Sevenshit and BVB are totally shit bands! That's why people don't like them, because they make terrible music!
    Personal preferences, that's why some people like them.
    And that right there is what makes this article a moot point. Both sides of the argument are stupid. Like the music you like and leave other people's preferences the **** alone.
    Please, anything that Avenged Sevenfold writes is a whole lot better than anything Halestrom has ever come up with. Halestorm is just another generic rock band. The only reason why they are getting so much attention is because their lead singer is a woman.
    God damnit! Their the reason! Poser bands like them are exactly whats ruining everything.
    I think all the metal genre needs, is a little bit of lube, because bands like bvb are ****ing it up the ass.
    BVB is a long way from shocking. Their songs are fine, the musicians are capable, and Andy is a passable singer, usually. Their egos and stage outfits are what have alienated us, and the time they came out got them lumped in with the most godawful bands ever. Stop ragging on them for their music. Rag on them for their egos.