Deftones: Why We Refuse to Tour With Korn & Why We Turned Down Numerous Tours With Them

The boys have a problem with being labeled nu-metal.

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Deftones: Why We Refuse to Tour With Korn & Why We Turned Down Numerous Tours With Them
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Deftones vocalist Chino Moreno talked about the band's continuous refusal to tour with Korn over the years, explaining to Metal Hammer magazine (via Blabbermouth):

"We did make a very conscious choice of who we were going to play shows with.

"It was hard to be this young band and having to turn down tours. I can't remember how many times I turned down Korn!

"And they got pissed at us. Jonathan [Davis] would say, 'Why do you hate us?' and I didn't know what to say.

"I'd tell him, 'Dude, I don't hate you. I love you, guys. You're my friends. But I don't want to tour with you. I don't want to be on the 'Family Values' with you and Limp Bizkit.' The name of the genre was nu metal, so anything that is new is one day going to be old. And I didn't to be old with it."

Guitarist Stephen Carpenter chimed in about the whole genre labeling thing:

"We didn't really pay much attention to that. I remember when these subgenre names didn't exist. It was just metal.

"So I don't think we made a decision to step away from it - we've never paid attention to what anyone else was doing. We just did what we thought was right, and tried to make a killer album."

98 comments sorted by best / new / date

    Bubu7
    "Why do you hate us?" is the exact reaction I would expect from Jonathan Davis
    servusgruessdi
    Now it all makes sense, this is perhaps what has been fuelling Jonathan Davis' anger on all of their albums. "Why do you hate us?" arrggg "I'm so sad, angry and confused! arrrrgggg" No, Jon, you just suck. 
    WhatMade
    It just gets sadder the older he gets. You have millions of dollars yet you're still upset about that one time some guy punched you in high school. 
    JimBonJovi
    How about when his dad sexually abused him? Should he get over that?
    DissonantTimbre
    It wasn't his dad it was a female family friend, The song is called daddy because his parents wouldn't believe him when he told them about the abuse.
    WhatMade
    [deleted]
    WhatMade · May 04, 2017 12:23 PM
    RJDfan666
    I mean, I get it, you're a troll and shit. But that's still something that's very easy to say when nothing like that has ever happened to you.
    WhatMade
    No, not a troll, just figured it was a funnier thing to say then some "Oh really? Wow, I didn't know" because at the end of the day I still think Korn's music is garbage. 
    Northernmight
    Damn dude. Calm your tits. KoRn has made some fairly good music. Also made not-so-good music. The quality of their music doesn't even have anything to do with the article. Such an odd tangent to go on about. However, as a fellow bastard, i am quite enjoying your cynicism.
    servusgruessdi
    uhhh yea.... I've been sexually abused... it's called forgive and forget. Not hey... let's market the shit out of this and make millions. He's been singing shitty music about it since the early 2000's. He sings about it for so long it's almost like he actually liked it. And no, I'm not trolling you.
    JimBonJovi
    Keyboard warrior in the house!
    servusgruessdi
    More like common sense, pal. Most people learn to grow and move forward and become stronger people from their hardships. Personally and especially musically. Chino has branched off with his capabilities as a singer and a songwriter and has multiple successful side projects, not to mention Deftones does not just have one single style of playing. Jonathan and Korn has not grown and their fan base continually shrinks because of it. He has stuck to his one style and never grown past it. These are facts that Korn fans just do not let sink in, mostly because of their demographic. Korn is great for pre-pubescent teens who fight with their parents and and teachers, and think they live a tough life. I cannot name one adult that still listens to Korn. Nobody, no matter what happened to them, wants to hear the same whiny stories of how tough their millionaire lives have become. Korn writes to a dwindling audience, whereas Deftones do not. All of these facts.
    Candlewolf
    Anyone who ends a three paragraph rant about Korn with "all of these facts" is not worth reading.
    Akherousia
    Dude, c'mon. I agree with pretty much all of your points, but 'I cannot name one adult that still listens to Korn' is not just irrelevant, thus a fallacious argument, but it's just plain misguided. Again, I agree with your overall stance and yet I can think of six people I know whose age ranges from 26-40 and love the hell out of Korn. You would've been better leaving out that statement considering it was off-point, not relevant to the argument you were trying to make, and showcases an element of detachment and ignorance when it comes to the topic you're trying to discuss. That, and you base it purely on lyrical content. I'm not one to defend Korn instrumentally, but as someone who hasn't given them an extensive listen, I feel just as unqualified to disregard them instrumentally as I would be to hold them up on any kind of pedestal. One thing remains true, though... music is about the big picture, and it is often a sign of ignorance and narrow-mindedness to gauge an 'artist' solely on their lyrical content and disregard the musicality of it all. Sorry, mate, but you're not the steel-wit rational you want to be. There are too many holes in your logic. You tried, though. Credit where credit is due.
    servusgruessdi
    If you agree, then what's the point in the contradiction? I only said that I personally cannot name an adult that still listens to Korn. Lyrical content is a massive part of Korn's over all sound. You can name 6 people, great. I cannot name one. All within their original fan base. All of these points being 100% relevant to the argument that Korn sucks. Get over it, move on. Plus, you don't even listen to them, therefore rendering your entire statement irrelevant. I have seen both Deftones and Korn live multiple times. Deftones has new fans showing up to their shows, whereas Korn does not. Either way, they are both amazing live bands. This is honestly like comparing apples and oranges.
    awmr1987
    There's lots of 30 year olds who like KoRn. They're hardly irrelevant considering they're probably the biggest they've ever been, right now. I do feel that the Deftones have definitely grown more musically out of the two and KoRn still manages to sound like themselves in everything they do, whether its great or terrible. The Deftones have never had the success that KoRn has had but I do believe Deftones are the more amazing out of the 2. Deftones are a horribly underrated band while KoRn is insanely overrated. KoRn hasn't released anything great since before 2003-04'. The Deftones have managed to recreate themselves and release 4 amazing albums since the early 2000s. I find there's been a cheesiness to KoRn's stuff since  "take a look in the mirror". The Deftones have managed amazing recordings from 1988-2017. I grew up with KoRn and Deftones being my 2 favourite bands. I listened to them nonstop for years and years. The truth is, the Deftones kept putting out great CDs....KoRn did not. I can see where the Deftness are going with not wanting to tour with KoRn. Do you not see how badly they sold themselves out at certain points?? they are literally a metal band that stopped to do pop music for awhile. Remember the dubstep also?? Needless to say, it did not blend well. It seems they got so tangled up in all the theatrics and the show that they forgot all about the music.  I still love KoRn for the years of entertainment they've brought me and I'll still listen to every CD they'll release out of respect for music... but there's no way I can respect KoRn like I can the Deftones.
    servusgruessdi
    Also, all of Korn's early music was about his step mother. Not his father. Nice try, fan boy. After, it was anger about drug abuse and pieces of news he read about in the newspaper that pissed him off. 
    JimBonJovi
    I'm the fan boy? It seems you know more than I.
    servusgruessdi
    Yea, because I was a fan back in '94, right up until Issues. Then their music became boring and redundant. 
    irtiqaevox
    omg...the exact thing happened to me too man issues was the dividing line. but i can't even go back and hear the previous records either...but i do think they did some great musical stuff still man
    Deliriumbassist
    Except for in 2006 when they did Family Values together.
    ifc69
    It was great seeing them perform Wicked together.
    Deliriumbassist
    I bet it was! For me, KoRn were always the better live band, and had the better singles, but Deftones are much more consistent in the overall output. Cannot think of a single filler track from those guys.
    rocky0
    Livewise Korn destroys Deftones. I've seen Deftones two times (1 festival & 1 headlineshow). Of course they were entertaining but Chino's vocals were mostly shit and the lack of energy from the band was boring. Korn has absolutely brought it every single time I've seen them. One thing Deftones does right though is that they have varying setlist vs. Korn's greatest hits list they seem to have for every tour.
    DanTheHobbit
    Huh. I saw Deftones at a smallish local venue a few years ago, and they were great. Chino grooved along and danced to some of the tunes when he wasn't singing. Haven't seen Korn though...
    rocky0
    Deftones have great gigs definitely. But they have equally as much of bad gigs. Of course I enjoyed both the concerts I saw from them but they were not that entertaining or solid live act. Of course Korn has bad nights too but they are more solid when it comes to liveshows. Albumwise Deftones has a better trackrecord though.
    irtiqaevox
    yeah this, korn is more consistent but deftones used to be really bad live till they got more sober
    irotinmyskin
    Chino didn't take care of his voice, and for a long time in his career his live vocals were extremely bad, but i think he started taking care of himself better, and i saw them about 3 years ago I was blown away at how much he had improved. He hit every note and the energy was amazing. It was their first live show in Mexico after the passing of Chi Cheng
    Snake™
    This struck me as odd too, as both times I saw the Deftones (with Incubus once and headlining the next) they fucking killed it both times and Chino brought his A game as well. I would agree about the energy thing, at least on Steph's part, but he smokes wax before every gig and just chills in his corner. 
    clickclickbooml
    Excuse my ignorance... but in my mind I've always considered the Deftones to be "nu-metal".
    Abacus11
    Their first 2 albums were nu metal-ish but by the time they recorded White Pony they were pretty much done with that sound.
    bloodydave
    For me they are an alternative metal band, but I think "Around the fur" is a nu-metal album.
    servusgruessdi
    Deftones are their own style completely. They have many songs that are nowhere near metal. They just-so-happened to get started around the same time. Deftones also have consistently released records with more than two good songs on the entire album.  Name any other band from that era that has kept going and kept their solid fan base.  Korn has definitely lost 90% of their fan base, as most people tend to grow out of being whiny bitches.
    godsmacking99
     Name any other band from that era that has kept going and kept their solid fan base. 
    That's easy, Sevendust. 
    servusgruessdi
    Who?
    godsmacking99
    Sevendust... you know that band that did "Black" and "Denial", both were pretty decent hits in the late 90's. They also had Chino do guest vocals on the song "Bender" from their album, Home. If you like Deftones, you'll probably like Sevendust. 
    WhatMade
    Their first album was being passed around as punk. I remember some of the songs on some compilations that I would pick up back in the day. 
    awmr1987
    you're excused. They aren't nu-metal and never were. I'm not sure even they even pass for Metal anymore with their last 4 Cds.
    JimmySupaFlii
    Sub-genres are stupid.  People can't agree on them, which shows they are all bullshit.
    Pete-V
    Sub-Genres makes it easier to find music you actually like, and to put together a program for a night that fit together while having a couple of bands on the bill.  You might miss some good shit by choosing what you wanna listen to by looking at the sub-genres, but honestly i find it kinda nice that i don't have to listen to a lot of Nickelback Clones when i am searching for some nice oldschool death metal. 
    rocky0
    Subgenres are totally necessary for identifying some basic elements of band's or artist's sound. Of course it is impossible in some cases to put an exact label to unique bands like Deftones but like Kornholic stated it would be really misleading to call them just a metal band. Purists would be all over that in a nanosecond.
    maddspoiler
    Ikr, why can't we just go back to calling it metal? Or is that not cool enough anymore?
    Kornholic
    Because calling Deftones simply heavy metal is misleading when they sound nothing like Judas Priest.
    servusgruessdi
    So, Judas Priest sounds like Black Sabbath and Black Sabbath sounds like Slayer? What about Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin, they were considered metal.... I'm sensing a fallacy in your argument.
    Kornholic
    What? Let's forget the fact that I have no idea what you're trying to say.  Black Sabbath doesn't sound like Slayer. Slayer is thrash metal, Black Sabbath isn't thrash metal. They sound nothing alike.
    servusgruessdi
    Exactly, that made about as much sense as your previous comparison. They're all metal bands. All you are doing is splitting hairs.
    rocky0
    Your point is?
    servusgruessdi
    "Because calling Deftones simply heavy metal is misleading when they sound nothing like Judas Priest." That statement makes zero sense. There are countless other heavy metal bands before Judas Priest... I'm pointing out the pointlessness in that statement. This person is just splitting hairs for the sake of rhetoric. 
    Kornholic
    My comment was a response to a question: "Ikr, why can't we just go back to calling it metal? Or is that not cool enough anymore?" Now, stop bothering me with your absurd comments.
    Vicryl 2.0
    for a band that projects "dont give a fuck" attitude, seemed too worried to be lumped with other bands. i call BS on his reasons. Him and Brandon Boyd should hold hands.
    Gregmcamp
    "I remember when these subgenre names didn't exist. It was just metal."   I don't think I have heard anyone else refer to Deftones as Metal before. I've heard alternative, post-grunge, Nu-Metal, and even punk. Not once have I heard them referred to as Metal though. 
    HardAttack
    Get a life, Chino. Genre names shouldn't bother you that much.
    awmr1987
    I think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't want to tour with KoRn out of a respect for their directions in music. Although I agree and I would just play the shows anyways.
    JorshWarsh
    Deftones make good music.  They make good albums.  I actually want to listen to their music again because it's so good.  Musically, Korn has done the same boring shit over and over.  The worst part of Korn is the boring and predictable lyrics.  He's been re-hashing the same tired horseshit for decades.  They never get any better.
    acplayer
    This just sounds like a made up reason for not touring with them.  If he loves them so much who cares what the genre is?  
    JimBonJovi
    They didn't tour with the Nu Metal crowd because...they didn't want to be classified as Nu Metal? What a dumb reason.
    ultimatelefty
    Not that I really listen to Rise Against's newer stuff, but they have some great albums under their belt. I think Deftones touring with Rise Against and Thrice this summer would be a much better concert that I unfortunately am not getting a chance to see.
    sean_getchapu
    One says he didn't because of the name it was labelled, the other says they don't pay attention to labels. 
    Cazman
    This sounds made up, there's no way they would refuse a huge tour just to avoid being associated with that genre, especially as a young band. 
    sparky996
    These guys have been around almost 30 years, longer than Korn has. They did play with nu metal bands when they actually played something close to it, but they've moved on from that sound. The music they play doesn't fit with Korn or whoever else they would bring along to a show anymore.
    xMetalMessiahx
    I could understand not wanting to be labeled into a category but they're talking about touring with Korn as if they would be locked into doing nothing but Korn and Slipknot shows. 1 - If they are friends why not do a show with them? 2 - their audience is just another demographic of metal heads to share your music with and increase your ticket and album sales. 3 - just because you do a few shows with a band doesn't automatically mean you're a nu-metal band. Like you guys said at one point metal used to just be metal. It's not like by playing with them you're going to wake up one morning with dreads and start doing solo techno shows under the name ChinDevil.
    drasbury
    Should have just toured with them anyways.  I still put Deftones in that same genre of music.
    luke.g.henderso
    Whatever their reasons for not touring with Korn, it's impressive that they could turn down opportunities to (presumably) make good money in order to stick to their guns.
    pianoman43092
    Touring with Kirk might have given The Deftones the exposure and experience needed to make them bigger and maybe improve their skills. I've seen them and in my opinion, they're one of those "nu-metal" bands that make me dislike the genre even tho I enjoy Korn quite a bit