Korn: 'Dubstep Fans Rage Harder Than Metal Fans'

Jonathan Davis has made a controversial comparison between rock and electronic music fans. Is he right or wrong?

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Jonathan Davis says that dubstep fans can rage 10 times harder than metal fans, without resorting to any of the aggression found in a mosh pit.

The Korn frontman was speaking to MTV Hive (via Blabbermouth) about why his band wanted to work with dubstep producers on their newest album, "The Path Of Totality".

"Metal shows are all hate, like, 'I'm going to f--k you up in the mosh pit'. Electronic shows are all peace and love. They rage harder than metal fans," he said. "I played a show in New York and then watched Nero who sold out Webster Hall. That crowd went ten times harder than any metal crowd I've seen in my life."

His opinion echoes that of many older rock fans who remember a time when mosh pits were about dancing hard rather than swinging fists and bodyslamming.

Davis went on to defend his original dubstep collaborator Skrillex, who strongly divides opinion in the dubstep scene.

"He has a lot of haters but he's got a lot of people who love him too," Davis said. "It's like all the purist metal-heads that said we were really rock when we came out. Trailblazers of any kind of music are going to get that flack."

Korn will take part in a live video chat tonight (November 10) at 6:30pm eastern time, where the band will take questions from fans in real time.

Has Davis lost his rock marbles, or is he making a relevant and timely point? Discuss and defend your corner in the comments.

51 comments sorted by best / new / date

    shikkaka
    He only thinks that because he has only been watching the crowds at korn shows...
    Pagan_Poetry
    metallica-#1 wrote: im so full of rage at the contents of this article that i cant put my thoughts into a coherent sentence
    According to Davis, that's because this is Ultimate Guitar and not Ultimate Dubstep
    therevenant2811
    gramke wrote on 11/10/2011 - 10:28 am / quote | if youve ever rolled your nuts off and went to an electro show with a great dj...youll understand what davis is saying. sorry metalheads, they actually do rage harder, and it IS all about peace and love.
    the reason they rage hard is because they are all on X, coke, ketamine, or one of the new 2c drugs. The emotions may be different for a tech show vs. a metal show but the key reason why they rage harder is because of the drugs. I Have been to several of both shows and it seems like vitually everybody at the tech shows is ****ed up beyond belief.
    goldenManticore
    Yes, you may be right. But I don't even understand live electronic music. How do you PERFORM electronic music? Push the play button? Maybe mess with the balance a little? Basically, DJ your own songs?
    Chainsaw_Chuck
    It depends. I recently got into Dubstep and started producing some tracks myself. I'm still learning but as far as I know most DJs take their original tracks, produce some kind of "live version", which leaves space for some creativity on stage, like putting other effects over it in real time and so on. So it's kind of a mix between "pushing the play button" and making music in real time.
    CronoMagus
    Oh I believe it. Every Metal Show I've been to has been lifeless except for the mosh pit. Then in Bonnaroo with Pretty Lights, people were intense. Definitely a lot more energy in Dubstep. I much prefer my band music though. There's something about a group of people playing real instruments live that gives it the edge five times over. I'd much rather see a group of guys playing than a single 'audio technician' rocking out to something he isn't even playing at the time. Sure he may be adjusting some knobs but who cares.
    Lion_Slicer
    Metal shows are all hate
    Bullshit dude. Aggression =/= hate. Most people in a mosh pit are there to have fun, not to hurt people. Those douchebags are easy to spot and because of their attitude are the first to get messed up. The rest of us just go "What the hell are you doing? Get that shit out of here." Has Davis ever BEEN to a metal show? Maybe Korn can stop pretending to be a metal band now and start pretending to be a dubstep band.
    jimmeru87
    I think a few people need to visit a Slayer pit!! Bring your rollin, peace and love there and see how you do!!
    nailsarecruel
    He's got a point about the behaviour difference between older and current metal fans. That being said, the only thing I tolerate less than dubstep "music" is dubstep fans.
    RocknRory
    Everytime I've been in a mosh pit, both at a metal show and an electronic show, people always immediately help someone up if they fall. Of course there is gonna be the douchebags who just want to hurt people, but thats life. Both genre's rage hard!
    GenerationKILL
    Also, maybe next time define what "raging" means too. Because I saw Stevie Wonder in concert 5 years ago and the whole entire arena was dancing, singing and having a great time. The energy was certainly contagious and wide spread. I'd never seen so many people having a good time together and collectively enjoying something. You know what else? Nobody was tweaking out of their minds on some f*ggy hipster drug either. levels of "raging out" are subjective. Jonathan Davis is only hyping the release of his own record. Even Blue grass shows feature people "raging out."
    Faustus333
    Am I the only one that watches the band anymore? I kid, but I've always prefered to just watch and take in the bands performance. I'll jump around and stuff, but pits just aren't my thing. Maybe the reason why it seems that metal fans don't rage as hard is because of the show the bands put on. I can't say the same about a dubstep show, having never attended, but bands with real stage presence and a great show (Rob Zombie, Rammstein, for example), hold my gaze and attention like noghting else ever will at that point in time.
    slaveskinJACKET
    I don't know about you people, but when I pay to see a show, I watch the ****ing show. I don't pay to go to a show with the intent to 'rage' with a bunch of bathtub-drug junkies. If I wanted that, I would save my money on a ticket and go to some bullshit techno party. Maybe the reason why it seems like that to him is because he's talking about the crowds at his shows vs. the dubstep crowds. Or maybe it's because at a show that's actually interesting, there are people like me, who see being at a concert as an opportunity to watch a concert, not to 'rage' (whatever the hell that even means). I figure, the people at the dubstep shows get into doing their own thing more because, aside from the flashing pretty lights, there is nothing to ****ing watch -- a guy standing there, turning knobs, hitting buttons, queuing tracks, occasionally saying the stupidest shit any one has ever said into the microphone. If I just wanted to listen to music and completely ignore the fact that people are playing it right in front of me, what is the point of paying for a ticket, really? Maybe a chance at catching a little stray -- other than that, I see no reason to waste your money, but I'm sure the band appreciates it. P.S. Mosh pits are ****ing dumb.
    BigMikeBDD
    Dubstep? Really? Sorry Davis...just lost my respect. I do agree that mosh pits are lame though. That's one thing about any rock or metal show you attend that could go away!
    Lion_Slicer
    In fact I was at a metal show last night. During BtBaM's encore (Mordecai, fyi) there were people literally waltzing together. Everyone was singing and dancing together like a huge family, even the people that not 3 minutes ago were trying their best to give themselves a concussion. That speaks for itself in my opinion.
    link no1
    To be fair, Korn isn't really 'pit' music anyway. And on the other hand, it's hard not to "rage" when you are screwed up on Ecstasy and Cocaine. If most people can only enjoy the music whilst on drugs then IMO your not that great of a musician.
    metallica-#1
    im so full of rage at the contents of this article that i cant put my thoughts into a coherent sentence
    Shor-T Zero
    Really, Davis? Really? I'm sorry, but the performance of "Blacken The Cursed Sun" by Lamb of God at Download 07 seems to say otherwise. And I know for a fact that there are probably equivalent, if not better examples of "raging harder". See, I threw in a disclaimer there.
    Hash4you
    goldenManticore wrote: Yes, you may be right. But I don't even understand live electronic music. How do you PERFORM electronic music? Push the play button? Maybe mess with the balance a little? Basically, DJ your own songs?
    Electronic artists do a lot of live improvisation with various instruments, like midi controllers and keyboards (but usually they have record clips that they activate, so they can focus more on the live editting of their own tracks). DJ Shadow played live drums using a drum pad, used an akai mpc to play a beat live and also used turntables in a show I saw recently. Electronic music is a lot more engaging than people think; the artist is a lot more busy than he appears. Although it's hard to get pumped up to a guy playing a bunch of audio devices, the light shows are what make the shows amazing to watch!
    indyrock91
    Jew is right. Most people at dubstep shows are so messed up they don't even know where they are
    dabassman77
    goldenManticore wrote: Yes, you may be right. But I don't even understand live electronic music. How do you PERFORM electronic music? Push the play button? Maybe mess with the balance a little? Basically, DJ your own songs?
    They don't just hit play, they usually create mixes on the fly of their material. I've seen a few dubstep DJs live and they are all staring intently at their equipment, counting beats, and weaving things in and out of their songs as well as manipulating the individual instruments any way they choose to. You can hear the same song performed in a lot of different ways depending on how the DJ decides to mix it that night. It's pretty cool to watch if you get a chance
    gramke
    the difference is what cronomagnus explained. at electro shows, EVERYONE is jumping and dancing. at metal shows, the pit is the only place where you see movement. as for the people saying about the lameness of lack of live instruments, the argument isnt whether or not djs have more talent than metal artists. its the way the crowd reacts to it. i dont think you can argue against the fact that rock/metal artists have put more time into practicing their instruments. thats not what the article is about though.
    gramke
    if youve ever rolled your nuts off and went to an electro show with a great dj...youll understand what davis is saying. sorry metalheads, they actually do rage harder, and it IS all about peace and love.
    Joost1795
    I love Dubstep as much as reggae, classic rock, metal, blues and jazz. I consider it equal, and what he says is true, Dubstep has a lot more energy, also a lot more drug, but i don't use it, i just go there to party and have a good night. Ever seen a Dubstep party? No? Don't argue if you've never seen it.
    jewfroxsamurai
    Well to be fair, Dubstep fans rage harder because their all rolling on molly or tripping sack on some other drug. Its not that they rage harder, they're just more messed up.
    strat0blaster
    Gotta say I agree. It shouldn't be about taking off the head of the person next to you, and that's what metal pits have turned into. I can't say all, though. There are always exceptions, but on the whole, I agree. Completely ready for this album.
    samhell
    I'm digging it. I'm more into hardcore and death metal and I don't even know what dubstep actually is... but I do dig stuff by Skrillex and others. It electronic, but kind of has that metal aggression going on. Kind like like Static-X minus the guitars. Its different. Too many people are hung up on what their ideal music is... well, go make it yourself then. These are artists, they let the art flow... Doesn't mean you have to like it but to say you lost respect or whatever just because they mix up their sound... thats pretty childish.
    GenerationKILL
    I'll point out the obvious: People at Metal shows aren't high on ****in Ecstasy and other drugs. Therefore they don't "rage" as hard. Thanks for playing.
    pat_kenn93
    gramke wrote: if youve ever rolled your nuts off and went to an electro show with a great dj...youll understand what davis is saying. sorry metalheads, they actually do rage harder, and it IS all about peace and love.
    FUCK YEAH, this is pretty much what i was thinking and when i scroll down through the comments, its like the first thing i see lol. Anyways, Davis does have a point- different music is going to have different reactions and different crowds. purist metal heads just don't get that because a majority of them are too hard headed to realize that simple fact, that others are going to think differently. and i completely ****ing love metal, but i also love dubstep, rap, ****, i just love music (cept country.. save a few impressive guitarists in the genre), and i honestly wish all the ignorant music fans would just ****ing realize that music is something that's meant to be enjoyed by everyone, it's supposed to connect people, it's supposed to be about peace and love, and that's exactly what you'll find a dubstep show/rave. i'm not saying they have to listen to the shit, but they should just quit letting pretense cloud their judgement to the point where they have to look down upon and even insult fellow music fans for their views. all i know is, no matter what i'm always going to love music and it's always going to be a part of my life, and i won't lie, i used to be the purist metal head whose views i just denounced, but the thing is: I MATURED lol music is about love, music is about peace, music is about evolution, music is a wonderful ****ing thing no matter what form it comes in. Peace out ya'll
    snaaake
    jimmeru87 wrote: I think a few people need to visit a Slayer pit!! Bring your rollin, peace and love there and see how you do!!
    I think it's pretty funny people upvoted this, and downvoted the comment above it, when this comment 100% validates both what Davis and gramke are saying.
    derrikthomp
    jewfroxsamurai wrote: Well to be fair, Dubstep fans rage harder because their all rolling on molly or tripping sack on some other drug. Its not that they rage harder, they're just more messed up.
    Ive been to metal shows and several festivals and at both ive been offered pot coke x heroine and meth not that i bought any of this stuff just saying alot of people are messed up either side metal or electronica. And ive had 10 x more beer spilled on me at a metal show then i ever have at a festival. Everyone rages when u smoke drink or just jam out to the music thats what its about..... the music. noone is gonna like the exact same songs as the next person. its music ever changing everyone likes different music
    iljh
    I'm surprised at all the most pit hate going on here. I understand wanting to watch the show but have any of you been to a Slipknot concert? Ever here of the Zero Bullshit? If not, look it up, and if you've ever participated in one you know how great it feels to share that much energy with the band and thousands of people. Moshing can be awesome when people aren't acting out as fools, though I would never wanna mosh for an entire show. Just here and there. On the other hand, slam dancing is ****ing stupid and does nothing but hurt other people.
    adamzam
    Also I don't pay 50 dollars to go to a concert to run around in circles shoving people until one of the punches me in the mouth. KoRn has a really ****ing intense live sound like a wall of sound smashing you. People who've been to a KoRn concert and say they're bored ARE NOT! true KoRn fans.
    Oh_Nutz
    oh and another thing - is it really fair to bring up metal mosh pits? do dubstep listeners even mosh - how would that work, a bunch of drugged up weirdos walking around hugging eachother?
    adamzam
    OK the ONLY energy at a dubstep show is the MDMA that all the kids take... Metal has PURE energy! not chemically induced. Man I'm not going to a KoRn show to dance. Good bye KoRn, you were good until the entire band quit. I think you guy should take the hint
    intellectvs
    Doing shrooms or acid at a metal show is totally ****ed up, i've done both, except Iron Maiden. Doing shrooms or acid at electronica shows is amazing
    Mprinsje
    meh, have been to lots of dubstep party's and stuff, and i like the atmosphere there less then at any metal gig i've ever been to. and for some reason at dubstep party's people are also moshing lately, for some ****ed up reason.
    Oh_Nutz
    dupstep is shithouse. its like watching and listen to a raccoon giving birth - its awkward for both parties. there's no such thing as "raging peace and love". rage isn't peace? its rage!
    Downfault
    Well maybe because Korn puts on a pretty boring show. When I saw them headline Mayhem 2010, there were the most boring band that night. Anyway I digress. I think to compare crowds is pretty pointless because the fact its different music and different music makes you react differently. For instance, when you go to a classical show, your not going to "raging hard", your going to be listening to the muscianship. Many dubstep fans are metalheads and vice versa, so that is stupid to compare. Dubstep is a form of dance music so people are going to obviously dance. Metal is more about spectating combined with some moshing in my opinion.
    b_flo
    We have 40 3000watt subs waiting for them. Windows will be breaking and nuts will be shaking!
    Log1993
    You know I just can't see what people see in dubstep. Especially when I think it just detracts from musicianship because Electronics are creating the "music"
    Newagehippy,inc
    This guys delusional, he clearly cannot remember the pantera show he went to.
    link no1 wrote: To be fair, Korn isn't really 'pit' music anyway. And on the other hand, it's hard not to "rage" when you are screwed up on Ecstasy and Cocaine. If most people can only enjoy the music whilst on drugs then IMO your not that great of a musician.
    I agree, most(not all)people who go to electro gigs are on ecstasy so pretty easy to not fight or get angry.
    TheRealHarker
    Have you ever been at the front of a crowd at a metal show? It's so compact that you CAN'T move.
    MrKyran
    I've been to lots of Dubstep and Drum and Bass 'concerts' although they're called raves (Even though it's no where near what a rave is like) here (UK) Dubstep moshers are ****s. They're worst then punks, last Dubstep mosh I was in 18 people got hospitilized for getting into fights (out of a crowd of 400 max) From my experience metal heads don't "rage" as much, but we sure as hell look after our own a **** load more then some of the chavs I've seen flying around.
    Oixord
    He's right, as anyone who's ever been to a electronic music festival, concert or party would know.
    timeizprecious
    Why on earth are you guys arguing about this crap? Metal gigs are metal gigs and have a completely different atmosphere to dubstep shows, I love them both. Why can't people just respect that and have their own opinion without putting people down and slagging off another genre because what you love may be what someone else hates with a passion. If you look openly you could get opportunities that you thought would never come upon you and be heavily influenced by something you thought was a complete waste of time before you seen it...
    FearOfTheDuck
    I've been to my fair share of dubsteps nights and there are actually a lot of metal and punk fans - the music is heavy! They like it. It's not all people gurning their tits off.