Pirate Bay Co-Founder Says Site Should Be Shut Down

"The Pirate Bay in its current form must end," says Tobias Andersson who thinks its closure will pave the way for a new bullet-proof piracy platform.

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Pirate Bay co-founder Tobias Andersson has called for the site to be shut down.

It's not a change in his ideals or view on piracy. Instead, Andersson says that times have changed and that it needs to adapt to changing technologies if it wants to remain relevant.

"The Pirate Bay in its current form must end. It's not built and meant for what is coming. The future copy fights will need something better, safer, faster," he said during a speech in Brazil (via Torrent Freak). "Something that does not depend on a few persons' will to sacrifice themselves. The world needs something that is impossible to take down, no matter what raids, laws and scare tactics they will throw at you."

He continued: "I believe that The Pirate Bay hinders the creation of something new. Not actively, but it has made people too comfortable by always being there."

Andersson recently formed the Promo Bay, a site which lets musicians promote their work to a huge global audience which is supported by ads, but he's also stepping down from that site too.

Meanwhile, another co-founding member of the Pirate Bay has announced plans to release an iPhone and Android messaging app which will protect conversations from spies.

The app call Hemlis - 'secret' in Swedish - will encrypt conversations and block agencies like the NSA from missing information from conversations.

What's your view on piracy? Is it as relevant or damaging when legal streaming services are so cheap and easy to use? Let us know what you think in the comments.

110 comments sorted by best / new / date

    dvnitycker
    "Legal streaming services are so cheap and easy to use?" What about the other 180 countries of the world where such services do not exist? There are other countries in the world except US and UK, imagine that
    henrihell
    Yeah, the other 180 countries have the exact same internet as the US and UK. While it's true that I can't watch BBC online in Finland, our TV channels have their own streaming services. Spotify and Netflix and stuff like that are pretty much global though. We're not uncivilized apes that haven't evolved since 1990.
    AARWave
    "We're not uncivilized apes that haven't evolved since 1990." Whad? Aren't we? And once again great title UG, you're almost as good as Finnish media..
    bass94
    America isn't even in the top 10 of pirating countries. That is what makes me laugh.
    Kriggs
    Piracy may be bad. But it sure has increased the amount of gigs I attend.
    GUITARxNEWB
    This is the way ARTISTS I listen to get their money. The CD sales get engulfed by the label. Support your bands live, kiddo's, or you're just supporting their label.
    jebbe9696
    You do realise there is a reason basically all touring bands have a label? There are few artists who can pay for large tours themselfs, there are few artists who has the amount of contacts the label does. With less wealthy labels, less artists get chanced on.
    sideslick
    If only labels realized that CD-sales aren't everything when it comes to tour-funding. Ticket-sales need a higher-weight in the major-labels' decisions.
    Alligator Dunde
    I pirate stuff because I hope that the spirit of Lenin will come and thank me for shitting on capitalism.
    shrekisloveshre
    Alligator Dunde
    By "kids", he meant "comrades".
    stevethecurse
    One of the best things that ever happened to the earth was the death of Lenin. The same should happen to all Commies.
    TheNameOfNoone
    One of the best things that will ever happen to the earth is the death of stevethecurse. The same should happen to all people on the internet who crystallize their hatred into comments.
    Stitllams
    piracy is a response to greedy corporations, find a new business model that lets everybody have what they want when it is released, not later at a huge cost
    Crackheadrich
    ye I agree but as long as these corporations still exist it will be near impossible to create a way of sharing music as he wants because they have way too much power. The way things are run now is simply wrong where people are paying over the odds for music and the artist is in debt to the record companies until they have paid huge royalties and some don't even make a profit from their own work, id say that's more criminal than people sharing music over the internet.
    shoded10
    The site shouldn't be taken down lately it's the only source for games not sold in stores anymore
    Necdilzor
    Take a look at GOG.com They have some nice classic video games available that work with new OSes
    Thatguy89
    pirate bay is the only one i trust
    fromzero
    What? You're obviously not on registered trackers. Install peer block and then go back on pirate bay and see how many anti-piracy agencies are already on to you. Then do the same on a registered tracker and tell me what the difference is..
    scarabs
    for people in countries where albums are not releaased and available i can't really think of an argument against them downloading, but the suburban middle class kid who claims they're fighting capitalism by stealing from bands they supposedly like is pretty pathetic. at least have the balls to say you can't be bothered to pay for it. if artists wanted you to have it for free theey'd just put it up on their website for free, and some bands do so fair play to them. but if you want something that someone made and wants you to pay for, you should pay for it.
    DixitDominus
    @Conor bailey That would be then shareware like it used to be. Piracy it's not destroying music industry. I download a lot of albums because in my country we don't get a lot of albums (especially death metal) so I can't "buy it" normally. If I get the chance to buy It, I do, I even have a collection of cds. Take a look at the new Black Sabbath album and the last Megadeth album, both came at the same time and Black Sabbath sold a lot while Megadeth didn't go very well and Mustaine blamed piracy because of that while the album sucks balls.
    hadookin
    we download illegally because its free and easy to get away with... why are people kidding themselves that its because of the corporations or something else... corporations wont get hurt, just the struggling artist who gets dropped because of low cd/download sells, then the the major label churns out more easy money gimmick bands or generic pop music. and the wheel turns. and here we are, with the music industry covered in its own poop!
    kornflipsk8er
    I'm going to assume that a lot of people on UG are looking to make a career in the music industry. I think that is a safe bet to make. Yet it looks like most of you are supporting something that is essentially stealing from the music industry. Yeah it may seem all well and good when you are trying to get your name out the but, what happens when you do? You won't be so happy to see all your hard work not make a profit because of illegal downloads.
    Faudeth
    Bands get their revenue from shows and merch, not album sales. But I see what you're getting at.
    The Spoon
    CD sales don't exist just to put money in the pockets of label executives. CD sales, especially first week sales, are a way for a label to gauge how relevant and popular a band is which affects their career for the entire record cycle. A band with great sales will get put on better tours, see more exposure, and are generally much better off career-wise than bands with poor sales. If your favorite band's CD sales sucked then they may get put on crappier tours making it harder for fans to support them in that area. Moral of the story is that buying a CD is much more useful to a band than you think. Edit: I may have gone off on a rant on the wrong person, but I see many people justify not buying a band's CD because they think all they need to do to keep a band going is to see them on tour.
    ChucklesMginty
    It's maddening when people say this and have no idea what they're talking about, it's just a sentence people spout so they can go "See, it's fine that I pirate. I'm not hurting anyone except those good for nothin' labels!" You think a band's going to get on any good tours if they've not sold any records?
    conor.bailey.3
    I think piracy needs to be scaled down, like, instead of a whole album put up as a torrent, say only the singles are available or restricting game torrents to be just demo's. I download torrents simply because I have no money whatsoever, if I had the money, I sure as shit would go and buy whatever it is I download. But it's piracy that is destroying the media industry because people don't go out and buy the material anymore, that's why the media and especially the music industry is now corrupt and all about the money.
    arsalonius
    Piracy isn't destroying the media industry, and it sure as hell isn't what made the music industry so corrupt. The reason piracy came about is because the music industry is corrupt. They pocket so much profit and screw over the artists. Piracy is a good thing. Through it I've been exposed to bands that I never would have without it. And if I like an album, I purchase it. People still support the bands by going to concerts. Piracy is going to kill the RIAA and make it so that we can buy directly from the artists. And I'll never make the mistake of blindly buying an album after 2nd Law...
    Second Rate
    You know the artists can read contracts before signing them, correct? There's also a wonderful word they could learn to use called "no." The record company is always going to push a deal that is disproportionately in their favor. It's not their fault that the poor poor artists are morons who don't know how to read something before signing it or don't have common sense enough to hire a lawyer before negotiations. What is so special about some moron with a guitar that I should be expected to give him a pass for being a dolt?
    arsalonius
    Right, so the artists who've been waiting for a record deal for years should just say no and look at the other deals that record companies are offering. Or they should spend the thousands of dollars that they have lying around to hire a lawyer.
    DixitDominus
    That would be then shareware like it used to be. Piracy it's not destroying music industry. I download a lot of albums because in my country we don't get a lot of albums (especially death metal) so I can't "buy it" normally. If I get the chance to buy It, I do, I even have a collection of cds. Take a look at the new Black Sabbath album and the last Megadeth album, both came at the same time and Black Sabbath sold a lot while Megadeth didn't go very well and Mustaine blamed piracy because of that while the album sucks balls.
    Flibo
    That doesn't sound like great excuse. There are many ways to legally buy music though internet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_... I could understand your argument if you relied on the fact that you don't get the physical CD or the cover art when downloading music but through piracy you don't get those anyway.
    link no1
    That is the most bullshit excuse I have ever heard. It's hard to find music in a physical form anywhere near me at all, the closest music shop to me is a good 2 hour journey (if the traffic isn't bad) and when I get there, not 1 CD of worthwhile value is on those shelves...yet, I own pretty much every physical album by bands I like. "well, your country is different!" you may say. No, that's not an excuse at all. You're on the friggin' internet. You can order albums from anything like Amazon to the bands actual website. Unless CD's are region locked now (which I really doubt) then shut up and stop bitchin'.
    l0ld4v3
    I'm not paying for shipping shit that takes an extra tax to bring it here. End up paying twice, maybe triple as much. Fuck that, **** their profit and **** their losses. They gotta think about themselves, I gotta think about me.
    mustaine42
    Black Sabbath sold a lot because that line up (with the exception of Brad) hadn't put out an album in a couple decades. You picked a poor comparison for your argument.
    stevethecurse
    So it's okay to steal it just because you don't have the money to buy it? That's a terrible excuse man.
    JackdeAxe
    You're broke but you're gonna not listen to music that could help you feel better just to say that you supported the artist? Just support him when you can but yeah, its a good excuse if you're broke imo.
    N7Crazy
    I downloaded an album from a danish band called "Efterklang" at TPB a few weeks ago - I was going to Roskilde and I wanted to know if they were worth checking out compared to that they were playing at the same time as another band that I knew, and liked - I was blown away when I heard the album, and decided to check them out instead of the other band, and I was blown away when I then afterwards heard them live. The point of this? That besides that I bought 2 of their albums in both CD and vinyl form (plus obligatory T-shirt), I also decided that I should check them out more often, and I'm going to Copenhagen soon to check them out again. They have gained a lot more from me pirating the album, than if I had just decided to go to the other bands concert (which I heard was apperantly half-assed...).
    guitar:god
    And because of that it was all right to steal their music in the first place? What about those 99 other bands you didn't fell in love with?
    N7Crazy
    The band (Efterklang) gained more from me pirating their music. And if I like a band, I buy their albums, If I don't like a band, I don't buy their albums - Just like before piracy existed. Essentially, I exactly the same as before piracy existed, except it is much easier for me to discover new music now, and give support to bands that I would before had never even noticed.
    webber243
    people who pirate music have no respect for music
    wafflesyrup
    People who support the idea that music is something which should be bought and sold instead of shared and loved have no respect for music.
    takfa
    In my country, If I could find original CD's and DVD's I would buy them. I sometimes do! but often I only find pirated versions (Illegal copies). I'm rendering a service to the artists by not buying them and downloading instead!
    sideslick
    "...will encrypt conversations and block agencies like the NSA from missing information from conversations." So... It will make it EASIER for the NSA? There is quite the massive double-negative there!
    Squoski9312
    As much as I hate pirating music because I can't really support the bands I like, I only do it to get music that I want when I don't have enough money. I still support those artists by buying exactly what I pirated later on. So I really hope the replacement isn't too far off.
    Rastapunk
    Say whatever you want about piracy, but thanks to it I just bough CDs I downloaded and loved, something I would never have done without piracy since I would have never heard about those CDs.
    ReldvS
    there has always been and always will be piracy. TPB is jus an example of an open site. there are many many other sites that are private invite only. IMO the record industry and the greed they had have contributed to this. Before, the money used to go into the corporate pockets.while the artist got screwed. now the artist still gets screwed but the money doesn't go to the MAN anymore.
    generalrook
    Pirating for educational purposes if you cannot afford it is just fine. I know tons of young and older producers who have picked themselves up and gotten a life long career started from what they got off thepiratebay cus they didn't just happen to have tens of thousands of dollars to blow on programs and instruments. Now they are buying the packs, and buying the DAW's which would have never happened had they not learned first, without being rich first! Just make an effort to give back what you learned because its will live on in your karma. As far as music, its more affordable and if you can't get enough of it from youtube, the radio, internet radio and need an .mp3...then its a dollar. Those without credit cards, give back later. The End.
    generalrook
    Pirating for educational purposes if you cannot afford it is just fine. I know tons of producers who have picked themselves up and gotten a life long career started from what they got off thepiratebay and now they are buying the packs, and buying the DAW's which would have never happened had they not learned first.....without being rich first! Just make an effort to give back what you learned because its will live on in your karma. As far as music, its more affordable and if you can't get enough of it from youtube, the radio, internet radio and need an .mp3...then its a dollar. Those without credit cards, give back later.
    staceap
    Well, this sucks, The Pirate Bay's the best way to try before you buy! Only ever had a problem with one file from TPB in the years I've been torrenting, and I wouldn't have listened to a lot of bands if I hadn't been able to get it for free. It's not as big a deal to me, now that I've finished school and have money to spend on money, but I still like the ability to get a free download of something so that if I don't like it, I don't lose anything. Call me selfish, but while the pitfalls are obvious, there are some benefits to such sites as The Pirate Bay.
    Sweetpotato99
    They're looking to replace it with something better though... Did you read the article at all?
    codyjt5150
    Hey people. Wanna know an easier solution to getting music. GET OFF YOUR ASS, AND BUY THE GOD DAMN PHYSICAL ALBUM COPIES.
    aleeha.malik.16
    i hate to admit it but he's right...we have to find a loophole in this whole illegal downloading shit before the man shuts us down
    affeimdt
    Two words: Spotify Premium.
    fatgleeson
    Just because its legal and you're paying 'someone' for the music doesn't mean much of it goes to the artists. If you use Spotify you are supporting Spotify, and the artists come second (or third, or fourth, or fifth, after the record labels). Its better to cut out the middle-man: pirate the album and buy a t shirt or something from the band rather than use Spotify
    Sweetpotato99
    Or use Spotify and buy a t-shirt or something from the band, maybe? I know, I know, Spotify doesn't give much to the artists... But surely more than piracy?
    damian.carvalho
    "I know, I know, Spotify doesn't give much to the artists... But surely more than piracy?" However, by paying for spotify, you are supporting a business model that ****s over artists. I would rather pay the artist whatever money they find reasonable directly (I love the indiegogo schemes.) However when that option isn't available I am not going to support an oppressive business model that negatively effects the artists and consumers. There are plenty of ways to support artists. Whether it's buying swag or attending a gig or donating (some bands have donation set up on their sites) whatever you can or think is reasonable for the album you downloaded. You would be doing a better service to the artists than making Spotify, Pandora, iTunes, and Amazon, a huge chuck of profit for not a hell of a whole lot. It's important that these services exist because it allows more people to access and discover artists content. But to say that paying for said services as a way to own the very strict licenses for tracks is just damaging, as a whole, to the artists who provide the content. The industry is changing the way we listen to music, but we are changing the way it is delivered. I am finally able to purchase SOME of the music that I listen to the way I like, and hopefully more artists follow. Until then, I will just download the new album, and attempt to support them in other ways, whether it's introducing new people to their work, or supporting them financially, I hope that others do the same.
    fatgleeson
    They get less than $0.001 per play. I've read figures that from well over 1 million plays on her song, Lady Gaga earned just over $1000 dollars. Think of how much money those ~1,000,000 gave to Spotify, then think that she only got $1000 out of it. Why would I give Spotify all that money when they in turn give less than a penny to the artist? Why would I even spend that money, just so Spotify can line their pockets? By pirating it would also easier for me to listen to the music when I want. And like damian said, I dont want to support their idea when it is that unfair. I mean, look at the comment we are replying to: people are led to believe that Spotify is fine, so they will use it and think "I'm supporting the artists" when really they are not
    intothe
    Spotify pays out the majority (approaching 70%) of ALL of their revenue (advertising and subscription fees) to rights holders: artists, labels, publishers, and performing rights societies (e.g. ASCAP, BMI, etc.). In just three years since launching, Spotify has paid out over 500M USD in royalties. If an artists doesn't get a lot of money from spotify it's either because the label is screwing them over (not spotify), or that their music isn't being played much. Spotify should primarily be seen as a promotional tool more than anything else though, an easy way for many people to discover and share music.
    scarabs
    Well the artists/labels have to sign up for spotify so it's they're own choice to allow their material on it, unlike pirate sites. How much they get paid for the stream also depends on what type of subsription the listener has so it's not a a set figure. And streaming a song is not the same as downloading it, becuase you don't get to have it once you've listened. If you really like you go out and buy it and then you 'support the artist'. If you download it there is not the same incentive to go out and buy it as you already have it. It's far more helpful to the artist in the 'try before you buy' sense than illegal downloading.
    jasonbloss
    I like Spotify, had it for a long time. The monthly fee is microscopic for the amount of enjoyment I get out of it. Also since my car has blue tooth I'll never need a damn iPod again.
    Muntificator
    dont get why this is on UG really; if youre gonna download music, Pirate Bay is a waste of time, unless youre downloading entire discographies.
    deadsmileyface
    I am downloading entire discographies, and before you bring the downvotes, know that I collect band tshirts to support my favorite bands (I have like 30 shirts now), thus giving them some form of payment. Besides, merch sales go straight to the artist, whereas as music sales often do not.
    webber243
    Like how u think buying a band's t-shirt justifies stealing 5 of their albums which theyve worked long and hard for - sure they'd be so grateful
    wicked_hobbit
    There's no justifying piracy. If bands don't intend their albums to sell, they would state it outright (For instance, bands letting fans decide the price for even $0). Saying CD sales only go to the record companies and they don't deserve our money is just plain ignorant. Piracy is simple theft. You can give excuses for doing it but not justification. If buying 5 shirts make you feel better about downloading their latest CD, more power to you. But I kindly request you to not to parade it around like it's the right thing to do.
    GenerationKILL
    "reinterpret" TPB AFTER Game of Thrones has ended! I use it to download new episodes every season. ...and thats because ***** cable providers in my country don't let you order specifically the channels you want, instead they package HBO with like 3 or 4 movie channels in a package which is WAAAYY too expensive. Its bullshit.
    munkybusiness
    It's good for getting stuff out there and heard... but that's what demos are for. I download demos on xbox for example and if it's cool I buy the game. I listen to snippets of bands 'new stuff' they leak us and gamble on whether I'd like the album. Theft is theft, isn't it? Some people don't want their 'art' to be free.
    Kueller917
    Pirate bay has turned to crap recently anyways. Lots of really horrible and possibly malicious torrents and it's an easy way to be spotted by copyright since it's so popular. I like the fact they're planning on going bigger instead of clinging to their website which can't last forever. Music piracy has always been a bit of a strange issue. There's musicians that have criticized it for the thievery and loss of sales and then there's others that have praised it for the publicity. Personally I hope future models move towards musicians self-releasing, and an industry that can accept it. Especially if it sticks to the digital realm, albums are usually cheaper and you're giving more percentage to the musician(s).
    wafflesyrup
    To support the music industry is to support the sterilization of music as a whole. Let the bitch die.
    purpLe.mR.cRowL
    I think this talk answered me a lot of questions about music sells and label issues. www.npr.org/2013/07/05/181868750/how-do-you-get-people-to-p ay-for-music/