Pirate Bay Officially Blocked In UK

The High Court has ordered five leading ISPs to block all traffic to the popular file-sharing site, but will it make any difference?

Pirate Bay Officially Blocked In UK
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The High Court in London has ordered five leading internet service providers (ISPs) to block all traffic to the Pirate Bay. Internet users who subscribe to Sky, Everything Everywhere, TalkTalk, O2 and Vigin Media will be blocked from the popular torrent site in the coming weeks. The injunction which forces the ISPs to block the Pirate Bay is the result of efforts by the British Phonographic Industry (BPI). The UK had previously announced a "three-strikes" law to contend with piracy, but it is yet to be implemented. Speaking to CMU, the BPI's Geoff Taylor said the file-sharing service had damaged the UK's creative sector: "The High Court has confirmed that The Pirate Bay infringes copyright on a massive scale. Its operators line their pockets by commercially exploiting music and other creative works without paying a penny to the people who created them." He continued: "Sites like The Pirate Bay destroy jobs in the UK and undermine investment in new British artists. We urge anyone using The Pirate Bay to explore the many digital music services operating ethically and legally in the UK." Other organisations have hit back at the injunction, claiming it won't solve music piracy and could lead to wider censorship of the internet. "Blocking The Pirate Bay is pointless and dangerous," said Jim Killock from the Open Rights Group. "It will fuel calls for further, wider and even more drastic internet censorship of many kinds, from pornography to extremism. Internet censorship is growing in scope and becoming easier. Yet it never has the effect desired. It simply turns criminals into heroes". One British musician has an interesting take on the situation. Dan Bull developed his music career using viral videos and torrent sites to promote his music. The result? His latest single reached the top 10 of the indie chart, despite releasing the song by himself at home. "I am a British musician. The BPI is supposedly shutting down The Pirate Bay in Britain in the name of artists like me," said Dan. "The Pirate Bay helped me get a top 10 hit in the UK official indie charts this week. [The] BPI did diddly squat to help me." While Dan's success with torrents is considered an isolated case, it demonstrates that peer-to-peer technology is not limited to illegal practices. Watch Dan's song which made it to the top 10 thanks to torrent sharing here:
What are your thoughts on the Pirate Bay ban? Will it prevent piracy, or could it lead to wider censorship? Share your view in the comments.

220 comments sorted by best / new / date

comments policy
    spiff-corgi
    Man, government. You can't let films like "Pirates in an Adventure with Scientists" be released one week, then block the Pirate Bay the next. You're sending out mixed signals. I don't know whether pirates are good or bad anymore. I'm already putting rum on my cereal in the morning.
    hmcguire
    It's not going to stop people from using torrents, cause the files aren't hosted on the site, their hosted on peoples computers. You can just use any other torrent site and get the exact same torrents. Well done UK government :/
    USCENDONE BENE
    I downloaded an album from the front page of The Pirate Bay a couple of weeks ago, one that was put there and fully endorsed by the band on their website - using TBP as a method of easy distribution. So many bands/artists I have seen live have said they don't care about people illegally downloading their music. That does't make it right to torrent all your music, but I'm not sure going around blocking access to sites is the best way to go about it.
    Metallidethium
    But if we keep downloading music guyz, how is Lars going to put that gold trim around his pool?!?!?!?!
    Bram_Claes
    This whole controversy isn't about artists. A lot of well known artists don't care about the piratebay, because they have done the same thing, but instead of downloading music, they copied it from the radio with cassettes... + like one of the gallaghers said: I already am rich, I am just glad that people like my music, I don't really care wether they buy it or not... And beginner artists aren't the victim of this, you can't find their music on TPB, it's just all about record companies wanting to make even more profits!
    spiff-corgi
    MR.LZZYHALE wrote: 2. Your a moron
    *you're As punishment for falling on your own sword, I will take from you 1 internet.
    OxMxGxTACOS
    Blocking anything promotes censorship in an open-source environment.. Besides, artists don't make shit off their albums unless they're self-produced. It's the record companies bitching about the 85% of record profits they lose. Honestly, big faceless corporations can take a hit in one market.
    Bram_Claes
    Oh yeah, notice that for example, Rihanna, active since 2005 (downloading was widely possible then), possesses an estimate wealth of 60 million dollar a less commercial artist, Josh Homme, stil has about 7 million dollars. Shouldn't they all be poor because of the Pirate Bay?
    Minivirus2
    MrFlibble wrote: tevez87 wrote: This is pointless, trying make people stop doing it will only make them do it more, it will be panic downloading. As Benji Webb said, it doesn't matter if you download the music, support the band in other ways like buying merchandise and seeing them at their gigs Bands don't get to do gigs and have merchandise if they cna't get anyone to buy their music. I don't know why people haven't gotten this into their heads yet, it's been a problem for long enough. Supporting a band by buying t-shirts and going to their shows is all very well and good in theory, but only bands that sell records get to put that other stuff out there for you to buy. Do you realise why it's a piece of piss to buy a Bon Jovi t-shirt but it's balls hard to buy a Tristania t-shirt? Because Bon Jovi have sold 130,000,000 records and Tristania have sold ****-all. Do you know why you can go see Metallica play at festivals and at the O2 and Madison Square Garden? Because they've sold 100,000,000 records. Do you know why you can't see The Birthday Massacre there? Because they're lucky if they sell one album a month. The unsigned acts with low expectations are okay with file sharing because they feel they're not going to get anywhere anyway. Long-time established acts can complain about it but ultimately it doesn't matter because they predate it, so their fanbases are used to buying albums and will continue to do so so no problem there. But the acts that have potential and expectations and could make it big but came in after file sharing became the norm? Screwed. Utterly screwed. Not to mention how much bands rely on record sales to get them through the year. They may not make as much from selling albums as they do from touring but it's still a very important part of their income. If you're not selling albums then not only will you not be touring because you're deemed not popular enough and you don't have the funding to do so, but also simply because you're going to be stuck in a 9-to-5 job so you can pay the rent. It's harder to get a record deal than ever before, because of file sharing. It's harder to tour than ever before because of file sharing. It's harder to get merch deals than ever before because of file sharing. It's harder to make a living from music than ever before because of file sharing. Wonder why urban music still does well and up-and-coming hip-hop and R&B stars can get by and have a good shot at making it big? Because that audience still buys music. Wonder why new rock and metal bands struggle to get any recognition? Because rock and metal's listener base is primarily dickhead teenagers who are ****ing clueless and think it's okay to steal their ''favourite'' bands' livelihoods. I don't agree with censorship. I don't believe it's healthy to set a precedent for the blocking of websites. But I am in no way sympathetic to this particular site or its users. Sites and services like this and people who use them are doing nothing but making it harder for bands and artists to make a living and ultimately they're killing the music industry. Record labels are infamous for pulling all kinds of shady shit, but file sharers are far worse than any label.
    Right on man! You hit the nail on the ****ing head! I'd like to elaborate on your point about touring and jobs. A LOT, and I mean the VAST MAJORITY, of file sharers/illegal DLers say that bands make money touring. Well, how many of you asshats work a job that forces you to live out of a suitcase for years? How many of you work a cushy job for 8 hours a day and then go home, sit on your ass, do nothing and steal (yes, steal) music!? Touring musicians CAN'T DO IT FOREVER . Touring is a 24/7 job and unless you're a well established act, you CANNOT take days off! So, you're essentially saying, ANY musicians who want to earn a decent living must tour for the rest of their lives? No, that's bull****! Just like every other excuse you make to defend you lowlife, entitlist mentality. Try NEVER having a stable home, a stable family or a stable life. To cap it off, I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE , at least half of you have a phobia of using toilets away from your house. Imagine using a different one for EVERY DAMN **** YOU TAKE! Touring is a means to make money for musicians, but it can't be done forever. They need a break and if you're touring for 2-3 years, trying to build a reputation, playing gigs of about 100-200 people a night, you AREN'T going to be making anywhere near enough cash to sustain yourself for a year or two off, whilst also trying to pay for studio time, new equipment and merch production.
    SkepsisMetal
    MrFlibble wrote: Do you realise why it's a piece of piss to buy a Bon Jovi t-shirt but it's balls hard to buy a Tristania t-shirt? Because Bon Jovi have sold 130,000,000 records and Tristania have sold ****-all. Do you know why you can go see Metallica play at festivals and at the O2 and Madison Square Garden? Because they've sold 100,000,000 records. Do you know why you can't see The Birthday Massacre there? Because they're lucky if they sell one album a month.
    QFT The rest of that post too, but this concept needs to be pneumatic drilled into 90% of people's heads.
    MrFlibble
    tevez87 wrote: This is pointless, trying make people stop doing it will only make them do it more, it will be panic downloading. As Benji Webb said, it doesn't matter if you download the music, support the band in other ways like buying merchandise and seeing them at their gigs
    Bands don't get to do gigs and have merchandise if they cna't get anyone to buy their music. I don't know why people haven't gotten this into their heads yet, it's been a problem for long enough. Supporting a band by buying t-shirts and going to their shows is all very well and good in theory, but only bands that sell records get to put that other stuff out there for you to buy. Do you realise why it's a piece of piss to buy a Bon Jovi t-shirt but it's balls hard to buy a Tristania t-shirt? Because Bon Jovi have sold 130,000,000 records and Tristania have sold ****-all. Do you know why you can go see Metallica play at festivals and at the O2 and Madison Square Garden? Because they've sold 100,000,000 records. Do you know why you can't see The Birthday Massacre there? Because they're lucky if they sell one album a month. The unsigned acts with low expectations are okay with file sharing because they feel they're not going to get anywhere anyway. Long-time established acts can complain about it but ultimately it doesn't matter because they predate it, so their fanbases are used to buying albums and will continue to do so so no problem there. But the acts that have potential and expectations and could make it big but came in after file sharing became the norm? Screwed. Utterly screwed. Not to mention how much bands rely on record sales to get them through the year. They may not make as much from selling albums as they do from touring but it's still a very important part of their income. If you're not selling albums then not only will you not be touring because you're deemed not popular enough and you don't have the funding to do so, but also simply because you're going to be stuck in a 9-to-5 job so you can pay the rent. It's harder to get a record deal than ever before, because of file sharing. It's harder to tour than ever before because of file sharing. It's harder to get merch deals than ever before because of file sharing. It's harder to make a living from music than ever before because of file sharing. Wonder why urban music still does well and up-and-coming hip-hop and R&B stars can get by and have a good shot at making it big? Because that audience still buys music. Wonder why new rock and metal bands struggle to get any recognition? Because rock and metal's listener base is primarily dickhead teenagers who are ****ing clueless and think it's okay to steal their ''favourite'' bands' livelihoods. I don't agree with censorship. I don't believe it's healthy to set a precedent for the blocking of websites. But I am in no way sympathetic to this particular site or its users. Sites and services like this and people who use them are doing nothing but making it harder for bands and artists to make a living and ultimately they're killing the music industry. Record labels are infamous for pulling all kinds of shady shit, but file sharers are far worse than any label.
    MetalBoot
    "...Its operators line their pockets by commercially exploiting music and other creative works without paying a penny to the people who created them..." And the record companies do what exactly?
    RobertStyx
    YAY! CENSORSHIP! Fantastic stuff.... Really though, I ****ing hate this country with a passion, and can't wait to GTFO after I finish uni. I don't support piracy, but censorship like this is simply unacceptable in any form, no matter what you're censoring.
    kumamilesbear
    MrFlibble wrote: tevez87 wrote: This is pointless, trying make people stop doing it will only make them do it more, it will be panic downloading. As Benji Webb said, it doesn't matter if you download the music, support the band in other ways like buying merchandise and seeing them at their gigsBands don't get to do gigs and have merchandise if they cna't get anyone to buy their music. I don't know why people haven't gotten this into their heads yet, it's been a problem for long enough. Supporting a band by buying t-shirts and going to their shows is all very well and good in theory, but only bands that sell records get to put that other stuff out there for you to buy. Do you realise why it's a piece of piss to buy a Bon Jovi t-shirt but it's balls hard to buy a Tristania t-shirt? Because Bon Jovi have sold 130,000,000 records and Tristania have sold ****-all. Do you know why you can go see Metallica play at festivals and at the O2 and Madison Square Garden? Because they've sold 100,000,000 records. Do you know why you can't see The Birthday Massacre there? Because they're lucky if they sell one album a month. The unsigned acts with low expectations are okay with file sharing because they feel they're not going to get anywhere anyway. Long-time established acts can complain about it but ultimately it doesn't matter because they predate it, so their fanbases are used to buying albums and will continue to do so so no problem there. But the acts that have potential and expectations and could make it big but came in after file sharing became the norm? Screwed. Utterly screwed. Not to mention how much bands rely on record sales to get them through the year. They may not make as much from selling albums as they do from touring but it's still a very important part of their income. If you're not selling albums then not only will you not be touring because you're deemed not popular enough and you don't have the funding to do so, but also simply because you're going to be stuck in a 9-to-5 job so you can pay the rent. It's harder to get a record deal than ever before, because of file sharing. It's harder to tour than ever before because of file sharing. It's harder to get merch deals than ever before because of file sharing. It's harder to make a living from music than ever before because of file sharing. Wonder why urban music still does well and up-and-coming hip-hop and R&B stars can get by and have a good shot at making it big? Because that audience still buys music. Wonder why new rock and metal bands struggle to get any recognition? Because rock and metal's listener base is primarily dickhead teenagers who are ****ing clueless and think it's okay to steal their ''favourite'' bands' livelihoods. I don't agree with censorship. I don't believe it's healthy to set a precedent for the blocking of websites. But I am in no way sympathetic to this particular site or its users. Sites and services like this and people who use them are doing nothing but making it harder for bands and artists to make a living and ultimately they're killing the music industry. Record labels are infamous for pulling all kinds of shady shit, but file sharers are far worse than any label.
    A well thought out response with anti-piracy ideals. I commend you for not falling to the 'I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG' way of arguing that people on both sides so easily succumb to. I may not share your viewpoint, but I respect you for trying to have an actually intelligent conversation about this.
    robo37
    Just checked, not blocked to me yet. Just downloaded all the Aphex Twin stuff you can't get in shops before it gets blocked completely. Thanks for the heads up.
    Lil Macker
    Censorship is the completely wrong thing to do here, it just allows the music industry to carry on doing its outdated practises. It needs to move forward and get a grip with the changing times. Why do they think Spotify and Grooveshark are so popular?
    Smegal
    Im both a musician and games developer. Surely I would be pleased with this, guess again. This is something that purely shows the ineptitude of the music industry to change and adapt to the ever growing technology available to us. Shutting down this torrent site will not raise a single penny for them, the users will simply migrate to a more secluded one. However this will harm indie developers and musicians who don't care about the profit in it for them, more about the recognition of their work. The joys of a creative individual is not the monetary gain, it's the fact people are finding enjoyment through their work. The internet is full of places to steal things like this, i agree completely with the open rights group in saying it is both stupid and dangerous. I have pirated music in the past to listen to new bands, and those I actually enjoyed i went out and purchased. I'm planning to go out and buy some soon too. But by blocking these areas we can listen to it doesn't inherently mean we're gonna go out and buy it. Most people would just not bother, others would just find a way. If there is that rare case it's less than a percentage of a percent. One more I will state this just shows their ineptitude to advance with technology.
    MrFlibble
    SpaceJunkie wrote: Music is a form of expression that should be free anyway. If your in it for the money just stop please
    Then how do you propose musicians pay their rent, their bills and buy food.
    ralph91m wrote: artists make tons of money
    No they don't. They didn't before and they sure as hell don't now that most people steal their music. Do you have any idea what the basic cost of living is? It's all very easy for most of you to preach the easy lifestyle of giving music away and not worrying, but that doesn't work in the real world. All of that shit stops when you want to eat, when you want electricity, hot running water and a roof over your head. God forbid you want to have a car. You can have an album get to #1 on the US charts and a world tour under your belt and still not be able to afford your own place and a car. You teenagers and manbabies need to learn that. Shit costs money. We don't live in a communist haven. Sharing and free living is fantastic in theory, but it's not the reality we live in. It's just not the real world. The real world is bills, taxes and responsibility.
    nailsarecruel
    hmcguire wrote: It's not going to stop people from using torrents, cause the files aren't hosted on the site, their hosted on peoples computers. You can just use any other torrent site and get the exact same torrents. Well done UK government :/
    Shhhhh....you'll make them understand the internet.
    PsiGuy60
    My real question is why is it only The Pirate Bay being targeted? There's so many torrent providers that even if you block all the known ones there's probably a f*ckton left. You can't really stop people from downloading - the real question is what the music industry will do when they realise that. Will they try to block all traces of filesharing, knowing that such an effort is futile? Or will they somehow spin it around into something profitable? Only time will tell.
    AnnihilationUK
    Do you steal a new car and THEN decide if you like it you will buy it?
    That happens..it's called a test run... But lets be honest - If you could download new cars, you would.
    MR.LZZYHALE
    I once saw a comment that said "why should we buy something that we can get for free." By that logic everything should be free
    MrFlibble
    BeerChurch wrote: Here's the problem. Even if there was no pirating or file sharing, musicians would still be broke. It's the corporation that lose money when this occurs. Signing a record deal(in 99% of cases) means signing over ALL your publishing. It means you are COMPLETELY dependent on some record executive in a fancy suit, fancy office deciding things for you in the name of profit. If your music doesn't make one(profits) through all the typical outlets, watch how fast your ass gets dropped into the gutter. The other option is self produced, self promotion and bit-torrent sites are a HUGE factor in difference of being heard or not being heard. Playing live and selling tickets, your discs and merch IS the only viable way to make any monetary gain. This truly is a case of "the little guy vs. the man" and it looks like(at least in England)the "man" is winning. Censorship is whole other issue but just relevant and just as scary as someone taking away your MOST powerful marketing tool...using torrent sites to get your music out to the masses.
    But the world doesn't work like that. If an act isn't selling records then they don't get to gig, they don't get to tour, they don't get to have t-shirts to sell. Not to mention, as I said before, even though an act may not get all the money from their album sales the money they do get is very important to keeping them going when they're not touring. There seems to be this myth that live music is all that matters and that so long as you support that then everything else will work out fine. It's just wrong. The world does not work that way. If you're not selling albums then you're not going to get gigs booked. If you're not selling albums then you can't have a merchandise stand. If you're not selling albums then you can't get a fancy website. If you're not selling albums then the record label is going to drop you and you're back to stacking shelves in a supermarket. I don't understand why cause and effect is such an alien concept to so many people. You buy someone's music, they can boast better sales figures, they can tour more and make more merchandise and make more albums. You don't buy someone's music, their sales figures suck and they are out of a job. It's really that simple. Pirating is not justifiable, it is not excusable, it is not taking a moral stand against the big evil corporations (which actually aren't all that evil, if you would just do your damn research). All pirating is is you being lazy, you being cheap and you not caring about the artists you claim to love.
    jrodgers
    I don't care what ANYONE's opinion is on how ethical it is or isn't to download music for free (aka stealing). All that matters is that with how technology has progressed in our society, there will never be a way to stop or even slow illegal downloading. Napster was the beginning of the end of the current version of the music industry, and that was over TEN YEARS ago. Anyone in the industry that hasn't adapted by now has NO excuses whatsoever. And if your job within the industry has been eliminated or phased out by this sea change, while I have sympathy, you need to re-think what your contributions to music and art were worth in the first place. If your gravy fountain is shutting off, there's plenty of other industries out there that can support middle men and leeches.
    leohimself
    Vinson wrote: OMG! I cab't believe some of the IDIOT responses here! Can't afford music? Sell your damn iPod and listen to the radio! Bands WANT their music on Torrent sites? Yeah, the ones who have real full time jobs and KNOW they will never make money on their music. Just because your local band likes their music there doesn't mean ALL music should be there....Get PERMISSION from the ARTISTS FIRST! I'll buy the CD if I like it....Yeah, and Monkeys will fly out of my butt! Do you steal a new car and THEN decide if you like it you will buy it? THIS (censorship) is what happens when greedy idiots steal, and then claim they have a good reason for it. And THEN you complain about greedy artists/record companies?!?!?! Keep it up idiots! Soon we will only be allowed to use the net to reach govt sites!
    Who are you? Gene Simmons? Yeah it's true that soon everything will be censored and controlled by the government but not because you steal media. It's an inevitable process. It's nature's law, the strong dominate the weak. And the more you lower your head the easier it gets for them. You didn't believe you're living in democracy didn't you? Oh so naive.
    jurnag12
    And now, without the Pirate Bay, all iillegal downloading will cease to exist! MWUAHAHAHA! Except that now everyone will just go to Isohunt instead of the Pirate Bay. Or hell, maybe to Nzb.
    WhoCanSay
    KirkHammett007 wrote: Actually i'm a musician and i planed on promoting myself on TPB kind of sites... and if i make it BIG i will definitely let my fans download my music for free... and if they want to support me, i shall put a "donate me something" link on my web site...
    HAHAHA, seriously, promise you'll let us know how that works out...
    Maiden95
    WholeLottaIzzy wrote: Buy your music people! Don't steal it.
    Agreed in full. Brace yourselves for another comment war.
    dlifiruhfjdnbfd
    The Internet is a massive promotional tool. And even before the Internet, CDs could be copied and shared anyway, the days of the LAN party may yet return. But seriously. The world's economy has changed, and so have its people. I may have walked into a shop and wasted $20 on a CD without hearing a note of it ten years ago, but there is no way that would happen today. I buy once I've heard it all in full and know that I will enjoy it. So if I can't hear it anywhere, I'm not going to buy it either. Unfortunately, as the easiest thing to access and control, organisations target the Internet to get their 'point' across, and Governments try it because they must have control over everything. The Internet is simply the best way for people to hear and view things, it is the new radio/TV. And those haven't been banned yet. :/
    ali.guitarkid7
    I'm honestly surprised and impressed how everyone's speaking their mind on this comment section without seeking any flame wars. It's real nice, especially when it's a topic that incites things like that and hits close to home. Anyway, I'm willing to pay for music only if it's released by the artist. You're backed by Sony? Sorry, won't be paying shit no matter how good your music is. If you're backed by one of those major labels, and I know you; then you definitely don't need the $1.80 from me. If all your fans are to your label are a statistic, then you know your true worth and your art's true worth to them. You're a T-Shirt, or a car. Not selling? Stop putting them in stores, or put them on sale. Besides, I live in a country where you seriously just can't find any actual CDs. They're all small businesses that pirate them, burn them to Blank CDs and sell them. The Pirate Bay helps me find good quality music that I don't find insufferable. They've promoted not just musicians, but writers too in the past few months and they've even managed to get a few of those they promoted on the British Top 10 charts. I discovered a neat little Prog Band the other night. I even found some other artist that's waiting to be downloaded in my Torrent BPI, RIAA, MPAA, CRIA/CRMA and others are trying to put a price tag on everything. I don't know about you, but I'm certainly not sure if I want to support something like that. Especially when it comes to my beloved music and films (in case someone decides to build some stupid argument over my word-choice here: No, I don't think anyone else's hard work belongs to me. I can view it, but I don't say I made it. "My beloved music and films" just means the stuff I like and prefer if they come with a dash of integrity and merit.) /rant
    BeerChurch
    Keep it local is my advice. Don't sell out to any corporate fascist pig until you can write your OWN contract...completely. Make a name for yourself at the local, gym, bar, club, church wherever...and keep throwing your music out there on the internet...anywhere someone will listen. Be smart, be self sufficient and when the time is right, hire a good lawyer and retain everything...all your rights. Don't give an inch. If no record label is willing, make your own. You will always have your local following to fall back on and it will always be your backbone. Eventually, if you become that popular on the local scene, people with money WILL take notice. Just NEVER stop. Persistence is the key at being successful in this industry.
    westley23j
    MR.LZZYHALE wrote: Dude475 wrote: Anyone who buys music from iTunes is a bitch. You dont gt full bandwidth and u r supporting dead Steve jobs. I pirate all my music but I pay crap tons of money for the mercy and concerts 1. what hell is up with your name?! 2. Your a moron
    What the hell is up with YOUR name?
    qpoitras
    oh man. what would i do without pirate bay!? i guess id just go to a site like isohunt. seriously though, this better not happen in canada
    Sonny_sam
    Pissing in the wind. The bigger problem you need to be tackling is the mentality that stealing via the internet is any different from stealing a film, album, software package etc from a shop. It's not, it's just less likely that you'll get caught and convicted. If people saw the implications more directly, they might be inclined to pay for things.
    ne14t
    Torrents sites are similar to the mythological Hydra, cut off one site two more will take its place.
    baumaxx1
    The promo bay? ... I have quite a lot of difficulty tracking down a lot of music I listen to down under though. Usually torrent, and then if I really like it, try and track it down from the artists themselves rather than paying ridiculous amounts ($90 CD anyone?) to import it via JB Hi-Fi. I've used a few streaming services, but lots aren't available down under, and the ones that are like Guvera, have a very limited selection. Not even 5% of what I actually want to listen to or explore further. So... in my case, I've gone from buying a couple of CDs a year and borrowing when I didn't torrent, to buying 10 in one hit knowing full well I like the CD and want to support the artist. So moral of the story is: Torrent Responsibly So... maximise artist profit by buying directly from them. What we really need is an ad supported streaming service like Guvera, but good, so that people can try before they buy and support artists. If you want the CD quality stuff, then pay up.