Wes Borland Vs Dream Theater

Eccentric axeman unleashes Twitter tirade, insisting he can say what he likes as he's in the world's most hated band then Mike Portnoy gets involved.

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Limp Bizkit guitarist Wes Borland has wound up red-faced and awkward after he unleashed a barrage of tweets slamming Dream Theater then former drummer Mike Portnoy replied.

Borland called the prog metal giants "Cheese Theater" and described them as mathematicians and not musicians. He insisted he was entitled to say what he wanted as a member of the world's most hated band... i.e. Limp Bizkit.

The eccentrically-clad axeman who wouldn't look out of place in some of the prog world's most outrageous stages started his rant three days ago by tweeting: "Please explain to me what there is to like about Dream Theater. Please."

Then he continued: "I know I'm in Limp Bizkit, one of the most hated bands in the world. But these guys can NOT write songs. Not a band. Musicians are not mathematicians. Feeling and soul over technique and speed. Not buying it, and never will."

Later he added: "I wanna shoot them out of a cannon, but a lot of people want to do that to my band too. I think of them fondly when my haemorrhoids are acting up. At least their songs don't get stuck in your head."

Borland received a furious backlash from a number of Dream Theater fans and defended himself by saying his comments were intended to be light-hearted and finished: "What I like about DT: Mike's drum kit and playing."

Last night Portnoy entered the fray following a tip-off from Kat Von D, and said: "Hey, don't drag me into this mess!"

The guitarist responded: "Kat Von D just brought Mike Portnoy into this. Yes! Awkward! Get out the drumsticks I want to play with him!"

He ended around 3am UK time by saying: "Well, that was fun. Thanks everyone for the most entertaining Twitter night ever.

"The funny thing is I kind of like Dream Theater now."

Meanwhile, Portnoy's former outfit have been forced to cancel their planned show in Beijing, China, on May 5, after event organisers failed to secure working visas for the band.

Thanks for the report to ClassicRockMagazine.com.

143 comments sorted by best / new / date

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    Mack888
    Beatles tracks from another dimension? Neil Diamond marrying someone young enough to be his grandaughter? Now Dream Theater are mathematicians? The ****?
    Lion_Slicer
    I hate when people think that technicality and "feeling" are mutually exclusive. That is a retarded view on music.
    BigSpence
    Mack888 wrote: Beatles tracks from another dimension? Neil Diamond marrying someone young enough to be his grandaughter? Now Dream Theater are mathematicians? The ****?
    Seriously. If I talk badly about a band too, can I be in the news?
    Thumper!
    Seriously? This happened days ago. Wes even said at the end of it that it was just all fun and fake. He and Mike even tweeted each other in fun. There is no beef so stop with the rumors.
    Tomo-J
    NBGSDLSG09 wrote: I like how they leave out the tweets where he says he was kidding...
    That's your typical Utlimate-Guitar writing articles about Limp Bizkit. The amount of biased articles about that band don't even surprise me anymore.
    ihavenoname93
    davyyy wrote: ehh at the heart of what he's saying lie some pretty good points actually. but it's obviously going to get overlooked since everyone's going to immediately jump to the Oh hes in limp bizkit! conclusion.
    no good points here. just closed minded 'thats not music, man' bullshit we've all heard a million times. people can listen to what they want to listen to, and nobody has the right to say what is and isnt art.
    Mikethespud
    Normally when I see people from bands I dislike, they seem like nice people, but Wes Borland just seems like a complete dick now. Most musicians aren't stupid enough to talk down about other's music.
    cory_i
    Lion_Slicer wrote: I hate when people think that technicality and "feeling" are mutually exclusive. That is a retarded view on music.
    I wouldn't say "retarded", but it certainly is narrow-minded. LMAO @ anyone who says Dream Theater cannot write songs.
    bf313
    And I find it hilarious how people go and call him and dick for simply stating that he dislikes a band and making some statements relating to what he said that were clearly meant to be taken as a joke. People are just too uptight and don't seem to realize that he was just screwing around. The same people who are calling him a dick are most likely the same people who constantly comment on things saying "Limp Bizkit are f*gs" or something along those lines. Just because he states an unpopular opinion doesn't mean it is any different than you stating an opinion that is popular.
    iommi600
    jimbob32292 wrote: At least somebody semi famous who plays guitar even a little bit agrees with what ive been saying forever. Fucking John Pettrucci is literally a bootleg faster "prog(gay)metal" version of Paul Gilbert. He literally plays exactly the same and his sweep picking is so ****ing ugly sounding and distorted honestly Herman Li sounds like he does. Besides YES they are mathmaticians I mean to be honest music is all about math... or you can make it to be. The best are the ones who can take that and combine it with feeling and soul (Randy Rhoads, EVH ect). Seriously music is not about just writing songs based on what progression goes next in the pattern and how complicated u can make it... its about making people feel your instrument and being complex and original at the same time.
    Did you just compared Petrucci to Herman Li? Dear god... I think my brain just farted...
    herpderpton
    jimbob32292 wrote: dude, you're so full of shit I don't even know what to say. kudos, you just made me want to beat my brains out with a hammer. Nice shows that you still have some braincells. First off there are THOUSANDS of people who can "play" guitar faster then John Pettrucci. It has nothing to do with that what so ever, do you have a brain? Or are you the one full of shit because im sure after u get over 200 BPM you know what the **** your doing. Are you really that ignorant? Fucking listen to ANY Marilyn Manson when John 5 was in it.. did it sound complicated?? NO, now go listen to ANY of his self titled albums. Shut up you DT faggot and learn what music is, its about syle and originality not how fast you can sweep a D dorian scale.
    1. Never said it was about how fast somebody can sweep pick. Anybody can sweep pick. 2. Never said anything about Marilyn Manson or John 5. John 5 is a fantastic guitar player. Don't know why you're mentioning him, to be honest. 3. For the record, it's not hard to play to 200 BPM. It gets complicated when you're trying to squeeze in a ****-ton of notes, yes, but that doesn't make it better. 4. Technical proficiency IS NOT (I repeat), IS NOT the sole basis for how well a guitarist can play. Phrasing has a big (if not biggER) part than being able to play fast. 5. For the record, I don't even listen to DT. But I feel pretty sure that John Petrucci is one of the best modern guitarists (MODERN), if not for technical ability than for phrasing, writing, and overall sound. 6. Listen to Petrucci's solo album. 7. Learn how to type properly. oh, and there's also that whole 'Petrucci being on G3 with Steve Vai and Joe Satriani' thing.
    westley23j
    herpderpton wrote: jimbob32292 wrote: 1. Never said it was about how fast somebody can sweep pick. Anybody can sweep pick. 2. Never said anything about Marilyn Manson or John 5. John 5 is a fantastic guitar player. Don't know why you're mentioning him, to be honest. 3. For the record, it's not hard to play to 200 BPM. It gets complicated when you're trying to squeeze in a ****-ton of notes, yes, but that doesn't make it better. 4. Technical proficiency IS NOT (I repeat), IS NOT the sole basis for how well a guitarist can play. Phrasing has a big (if not biggER) part than being able to play fast. 5. For the record, I don't even listen to DT. But I feel pretty sure that John Petrucci is one of the best modern guitarists (MODERN), if not for technical ability than for phrasing, writing, and overall sound. 6. Listen to Petrucci's solo album. 7. Learn how to type properly. oh, and there's also that whole 'Petrucci being on G3 with Steve Vai and Joe Satriani' thing. Yet again shows that you have no idea what your talking about... (it gets complicated when you try to squeeze in a shit ton of notes) haha what is that? That is the most lame term ever to describe anything he plays. Do you even know what Key he plays in? Do you know what hes known for? Ill give you a hint hes known for WHAT PAUL GILBERT DOES somebody who did it BEFORE him and is cleaner. And how doesnt John 5 make sense there? He wasnt a soloist you ****ing moron, not until his SOLO albums SO it makes PERFECT sense. It shows anyone who can play MAINLY rythm can sure as **** play solos. Dude pick up a guitar and stop reading about stuff. Yes hes on G3 but thats purley for profitable reasons, how much do they make on that ****ing tour? And besides the people are there mainly for Satch anyways. Btw yeah how about their new album? Yeah its awesome isnt it hahaha FAIL Alright, I'm done arguing. From your post I can clearly tell you're not only 15, but you're also a douche. Want me to break it down for you? It gets a little hard playing 16th notes at 200bpm. Also 16th triplets. And what KEY does he play in? Really? Do you honestly think that DT (Petrucci specifically) sticks to ONE GOD DAMN KEY? Teenagers, I swear.
    i agree with herp, and i know people are gonna jump onto me for that but i dont care. people dont like DT because you need a bit more of an attention span to listen to it. one of my friends called it "thinking mans music". its definitely polarizing music--love it or hate it. these guys arent considered to be some of the best at their respective instruments because they write songs that sound like a 3 days grace album, they are considered the best because of their talent (whether you admit it or not), longevity and the reputation of their live shows. its no fluke.
    Sickz
    I will start of with saying that Dream Theater is one of my favorite bands, so people will probably label me as fanboy. But i needed to say *drumroll*, IT'S A MATTER OF OPINION! I personally love Dream Theaters music, i don't find it boring or unemotional. On the other hand one of my best friends (who is also a musician) does. You are allowed to say that a band aint your cup of tea, but you simply cannot state as a fact that they are more or less musicians or that there music is bad. Music can't be good or bad, cause it depends on who you ask. There! Now i'm done ranting.
    Flea182
    SoA_Joseph wrote: I'm sorry Limp Dickskit; I can't hear you over the actual, incredible musicianship that comprises Dream Theater. He's just being an arrogant c*ck, and should go back to minding his own business and ruining good songs like Behind Blue Eyes.
    just so u know, Wes wasnt in the band at that point
    thebigredjj10
    jimbob32292 wrote: At least somebody semi famous who plays guitar even a little bit agrees with what ive been saying forever. Fucking John Pettrucci is literally a bootleg faster "prog(gay)metal" version of Paul Gilbert. He literally plays exactly the same and his sweep picking is so ****ing ugly sounding and distorted honestly Herman Li sounds like he does. Besides YES they are mathmaticians I mean to be honest music is all about math... or you can make it to be. The best are the ones who can take that and combine it with feeling and soul (Randy Rhoads, EVH ect). Seriously music is not about just writing songs based on what progression goes next in the pattern and how complicated u can make it... its about making people feel your instrument and being complex and original at the same time.
    You have little knowledge of music don't you. Now I'm not bashing that you don't like DT, that's just an opinion. Where I take cause is the notion that they are empty of feeling due to the technicality. It's not as repetitive you think, if you actually read the music. To the laymans ear it may sound like just a lot of complex stuff, but to anyone who understands it, can hear the beauty of it. You probably also have no knowledge of classical music (ranging from Baroque-Classical-Romantacism), because that music is even more complex, but I guess it is all crap too. And don't pull the stupid, well they don't play with feeling card, that's a bullshit argument. I feel something, they feel something, millions of fans feel something. You assume people like them because they can shred. The ability to shred is just a tool in the toolbox, and their toolbox is overloaded with tools. People like their music (I can't speak for everyone of course) not because it is super complex for the sake of showing off, but because of the beauty of complexity. Take a music lesson outside of the standard rock world and you would learn a lot.
    leohimself
    he was probably high when he wrote that. not that i give a ---- about Dream Theater. just saying it felt like he was high.
    fede01_8
    i hate Limp Bizkit but agree with the guy. And think the same about Malsteen (sp?)
    J.R. Legrasse
    Minivirus2 wrote: hmcguire wrote: nailsarecruel wrote: hmcguire wrote: To say that Dream Theater not creative is ridiculous, I mean they pretty much invented a genre (Or at least made it famous) I get you. All those lazy prog *****s from the 70's didn't do enough for progressive music. I'm talking about prog metal, prog rock is an entirely different genre. Prog rock is often more jazzy and experimental then prog metal. Dude, Rainbow and Rush were around in the 70's. That **** pioneered prog metal. Loves me some DT, but they've done nothing wholly original with their sound.
    And in the '80s, there was Watchtower, Coroner, Deathrow, Helloween, Annihilator, Toxik and some blokes called Iron Maiden. Prog-metal didn't begin or end with Dream Theater.
    Minivirus2
    hmcguire wrote: nailsarecruel wrote: hmcguire wrote: To say that Dream Theater not creative is ridiculous, I mean they pretty much invented a genre (Or at least made it famous) I get you. All those lazy prog *****s from the 70's didn't do enough for progressive music. I'm talking about prog metal, prog rock is an entirely different genre. Prog rock is often more jazzy and experimental then prog metal.
    Dude, Rainbow and Rush were around in the 70's. That **** pioneered prog metal. Loves me some DT, but they've done nothing wholly original with their sound.
    'Leviathan'
    Octavarium, Learning to Live, Wait For Sleep, The Dance of Eternity, A Change of Seasons, Erotomania, Space-Dye Vest, Don't Look Past Me (Into The Sun), Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, Breaking All Illusions, Metropolis Part I, Trail of Tears... Yeah, Dream Theater can't write songs at all.
    Maestro1600
    What I find most offensive is the dream/cheese pun. Not good enough! And at least he's self-aware enough to acknowledge how hated Bizkit are. I mean, whether you agree with his views on prog or not, at least it's light hearted rather than malicious. And, really, is it any different to the opinions on bands and genres that fill up these boards?
    herpderpton
    jimbob32292 wrote: 1. Never said it was about how fast somebody can sweep pick. Anybody can sweep pick. 2. Never said anything about Marilyn Manson or John 5. John 5 is a fantastic guitar player. Don't know why you're mentioning him, to be honest. 3. For the record, it's not hard to play to 200 BPM. It gets complicated when you're trying to squeeze in a ****-ton of notes, yes, but that doesn't make it better. 4. Technical proficiency IS NOT (I repeat), IS NOT the sole basis for how well a guitarist can play. Phrasing has a big (if not biggER) part than being able to play fast. 5. For the record, I don't even listen to DT. But I feel pretty sure that John Petrucci is one of the best modern guitarists (MODERN), if not for technical ability than for phrasing, writing, and overall sound. 6. Listen to Petrucci's solo album. 7. Learn how to type properly. oh, and there's also that whole 'Petrucci being on G3 with Steve Vai and Joe Satriani' thing. Yet again shows that you have no idea what your talking about... (it gets complicated when you try to squeeze in a shit ton of notes) haha what is that? That is the most lame term ever to describe anything he plays. Do you even know what Key he plays in? Do you know what hes known for? Ill give you a hint hes known for WHAT PAUL GILBERT DOES somebody who did it BEFORE him and is cleaner. And how doesnt John 5 make sense there? He wasnt a soloist you ****ing moron, not until his SOLO albums SO it makes PERFECT sense. It shows anyone who can play MAINLY rythm can sure as **** play solos. Dude pick up a guitar and stop reading about stuff. Yes hes on G3 but thats purley for profitable reasons, how much do they make on that ****ing tour? And besides the people are there mainly for Satch anyways. Btw yeah how about their new album? Yeah its awesome isnt it hahaha FAIL
    Alright, I'm done arguing. From your post I can clearly tell you're not only 15, but you're also a douche. Want me to break it down for you? It gets a little hard playing 16th notes at 200bpm. Also 16th triplets. And what KEY does he play in? Really? Do you honestly think that DT (Petrucci specifically) sticks to ONE GOD DAMN KEY? Teenagers, I swear.
    davyyy
    ehh at the heart of what he's saying lie some pretty good points actually. but it's obviously going to get overlooked since everyone's going to immediately jump to the Oh hes in limp bizkit! conclusion.
    mysticguitar77
    I see what Borland is saying, but he just said it very poorly and offensively. To say they are not musicians is just plain ignorance on his part, however, him calling them mathematicians is not too far off IMO. Dream Theater's songs are very calculated and "musically correct" if you will. Not saying they are not creative, you don't become progressive metal giants without talent and creativity. With that said, I've been noticing DT's writing style has been following a trend, like a formula almost and you sense it when listening to some of their recent output like Dramatic Turn of Events and BC&SL. I don't think it is Dream Theater's fault, I think people have come to expect this type of music from them, so their fans' needs have affected their writing. Still to this day, Falling Into Infinity remains as Dream Theater's biggest leap of faith and "fans" crucified that album for "selling out" and whatnot, but Dream Theater was really trying something new and different (and if you heard some of the demos before the producer ripped that album up, you may think differently of FII). Dream Theater is just trying to please their fans and by that, they are releasing music people expect them to make and if that includes long instrumental wankery and sing-songy chorus', then so be it and Borland just called them out on being too formulated which I can agree with. I will also say that Borland is a pretty great musician himself, can't deny that. One of the most creative, imaginative, and best guitarists of his kind and he's apparently pretty cocky about it. If it wasn't for Fred Durst's vocals, I'd listen to Limp Bizkit so much more just to hear Borland play. He's got skills, not Petrucci-esque skills, but still skills of a different kind nonetheless. Quit comparing the two, they are both great in their different ways. That's all. Sorry about the essay, just got finished writing my English research paper so my argumentative mind and fingers were already warmed up.
    iommi600
    Trolling at its finest. Anyway, people gotta release their anger for being part of a crumbling, has-been nu metal band.
    Battman1993
    RichieJovie wrote: Why was Portnoy getting involved, he isn't in Dream Theater or has he forgotten that? He can rip into them but no one else can?
    Cause Borland dragged him into it, aqnd plus Portnoy is kinda a founding member of DT, so he probably feels obligated to defend them since he's still friends with Petrucci
    rhs5110
    Wes is from the shittiest band on the planet I mean for ****s sake their on lil waynes lablel doesn't get much worse from there and I hate when muscians who suck say playing fast is souless that's just what people who can't play fast say
    shredder3386
    i_am_metalhead wrote: Dream Theater are the biggest joke to ever hit the music scene. They cannot write a song for shit. Its all about "Oh, look at me. I'm gonna play a million notes per second and sound like total shit!". Listen to Boreland outside of Limp Bizkit. He is an excellent guitarist. I'd rather listen to him than Crap Theater any day.
    LMAO man you've gotta be the biggest troll on this whole website. Everytime I see you post something on here its ****ing retarded.
    bf313
    guitargodwannab wrote: was Limp Bizkit actually just ripping DT?? wow thats slightly ironic
    Did you even read the article? No Limp Bizkit did not rip on Dream Theater, Wes just said in A joking way that he didn't like them. That's all.
    iplayat11
    At least this is a nice little mix up from the normal "I hate Nickelback" news...
    thebigredjj10
    Fendergod666 wrote: Musicians are not mathematicians This guy honestly has no idea what music is. Probably doesn't know how to read music. Take a class in theory and then tell me how musicians aren't mathematicians.
    Agreed. The composer John Adams wrote 2 piano pieces call Phrygian Gates and China gates based off mathematics. Beautiful pieces. The reason for their beauty is the beauty of mathematics. Nature is mathematics. Everything boils down to codes and equations. So in the perfection of John Adams equations he used, he captures the essence of nature. Music is math. Even if the musician doesn't know they are using math, they are. It's like a little boy picking up 5 stones to put it 5 cups, whether he knows it or not, he has to use math (simple math, but math) to match the right amount of stones to cups.
    troyofyort
    Anyone who thinks Dream Theater has no emotion should listen to The Spirit Carries On, Far From Heaven or Space Dye Vest!
    Fendergod666
    Musicians are not mathematicians
    This guy honestly has no idea what music is. Probably doesn't know how to read music. Take a class in theory and then tell me how musicians aren't mathematicians.
    jekylhyde
    And it's sad that UG writes shitty articles just to get more hits or clicks... don't insult me, I could read a well written article every now and then. I'm ready, I'm a big boy.
    nailsarecruel
    hmcguire wrote: To say that Dream Theater not creative is ridiculous, I mean they pretty much invented a genre (Or at least made it famous)
    I get you. All those lazy prog *****s from the 70's didn't do enough for progressive music.
    crazysam23_Atax
    I hardly think a musician such as Wes Borland has any room to criticize Dream Theater. I mean, we all know that Petrucci is much better of a musician. Borland sounds more like an angry teen who's mad that his band isn't as cool than like a responsible adult.
    BwareDWare94
    Limp Bizkit are god awful, but he's got a bit of a point. I love all kinds of metal, but something about Dream Theater just puts me to sleep most of the time. Do they have great songs? Yes, but nothing that makes me want to go pick up an album. They can play circles around most other bands, but that doesn't mean anything. Music is about feeling and emotion, not what you can or can't do with an instrument.
    Suckerpunchme!
    Mikethespud wrote: Normally when I see people from bands I dislike, they seem like nice people, but Wes Borland just seems like a complete dick now. Most musicians aren't stupid enough to talk down about other's music.
    Especially when the musician talking smack is so far less talented than the group they're talking shit about. Borland isn't even a pimple on Dream Theater's ass (present or previous lineup).
    hamsteroceros
    Lion_Slicer wrote: I hate when people think that technicality and "feeling" are mutually exclusive. That is a retarded view on music.
    The issue is whether the band in question can incorporate both. DT does a poor job of it, IMHO. The more technical the music is, the more difficult it is to give it any kind of soul.