Wes Borland Vs Dream Theater

Eccentric axeman unleashes Twitter tirade, insisting he can say what he likes as he's in the world's most hated band then Mike Portnoy gets involved.

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Limp Bizkit guitarist Wes Borland has wound up red-faced and awkward after he unleashed a barrage of tweets slamming Dream Theater then former drummer Mike Portnoy replied.

Borland called the prog metal giants "Cheese Theater" and described them as mathematicians and not musicians. He insisted he was entitled to say what he wanted as a member of the world's most hated band... i.e. Limp Bizkit.

The eccentrically-clad axeman who wouldn't look out of place in some of the prog world's most outrageous stages started his rant three days ago by tweeting: "Please explain to me what there is to like about Dream Theater. Please."

Then he continued: "I know I'm in Limp Bizkit, one of the most hated bands in the world. But these guys can NOT write songs. Not a band. Musicians are not mathematicians. Feeling and soul over technique and speed. Not buying it, and never will."

Later he added: "I wanna shoot them out of a cannon, but a lot of people want to do that to my band too. I think of them fondly when my haemorrhoids are acting up. At least their songs don't get stuck in your head."

Borland received a furious backlash from a number of Dream Theater fans and defended himself by saying his comments were intended to be light-hearted and finished: "What I like about DT: Mike's drum kit and playing."

Last night Portnoy entered the fray following a tip-off from Kat Von D, and said: "Hey, don't drag me into this mess!"

The guitarist responded: "Kat Von D just brought Mike Portnoy into this. Yes! Awkward! Get out the drumsticks I want to play with him!"

He ended around 3am UK time by saying: "Well, that was fun. Thanks everyone for the most entertaining Twitter night ever.

"The funny thing is I kind of like Dream Theater now."

Meanwhile, Portnoy's former outfit have been forced to cancel their planned show in Beijing, China, on May 5, after event organisers failed to secure working visas for the band.

Thanks for the report to ClassicRockMagazine.com.

143 comments sorted by best / new / date

    ihavenoname93
    davyyy wrote: ehh at the heart of what he's saying lie some pretty good points actually. but it's obviously going to get overlooked since everyone's going to immediately jump to the Oh hes in limp bizkit! conclusion.
    no good points here. just closed minded 'thats not music, man' bullshit we've all heard a million times. people can listen to what they want to listen to, and nobody has the right to say what is and isnt art.
    herpderpton
    jimbob32292 wrote: And I used to be a John Petrucci fan until I actually sat down and listened to his music and watched him play. It's not even impressive I mean yeah he can put complex progressions together but it doesnt sound good at all. Id rather listen to Dave Mustaines guitar going on E minor runs then John trying to hard to play fast for his fans.
    I said I was gonna stay outta this, and I'm going to, but I wanna say something. I'm like 95% sure this dude is a troll. 3/10 for getting me to reply.
    thebigredjj10
    jimbob32292 wrote: At least somebody semi famous who plays guitar even a little bit agrees with what ive been saying forever. Fucking John Pettrucci is literally a bootleg faster "prog(gay)metal" version of Paul Gilbert. He literally plays exactly the same and his sweep picking is so ****ing ugly sounding and distorted honestly Herman Li sounds like he does. Besides YES they are mathmaticians I mean to be honest music is all about math... or you can make it to be. The best are the ones who can take that and combine it with feeling and soul (Randy Rhoads, EVH ect). Seriously music is not about just writing songs based on what progression goes next in the pattern and how complicated u can make it... its about making people feel your instrument and being complex and original at the same time.
    You have little knowledge of music don't you. Now I'm not bashing that you don't like DT, that's just an opinion. Where I take cause is the notion that they are empty of feeling due to the technicality. It's not as repetitive you think, if you actually read the music. To the laymans ear it may sound like just a lot of complex stuff, but to anyone who understands it, can hear the beauty of it. You probably also have no knowledge of classical music (ranging from Baroque-Classical-Romantacism), because that music is even more complex, but I guess it is all crap too. And don't pull the stupid, well they don't play with feeling card, that's a bullshit argument. I feel something, they feel something, millions of fans feel something. You assume people like them because they can shred. The ability to shred is just a tool in the toolbox, and their toolbox is overloaded with tools. People like their music (I can't speak for everyone of course) not because it is super complex for the sake of showing off, but because of the beauty of complexity. Take a music lesson outside of the standard rock world and you would learn a lot.
    maximumrocker
    thebigredjj10 wrote: jimbob32292 wrote: At least somebody semi famous who plays guitar even a little bit agrees with what ive been saying forever. Fucking John Pettrucci is literally a bootleg faster "prog(gay)metal" version of Paul Gilbert. He literally plays exactly the same and his sweep picking is so ****ing ugly sounding and distorted honestly Herman Li sounds like he does. Besides YES they are mathmaticians I mean to be honest music is all about math... or you can make it to be. The best are the ones who can take that and combine it with feeling and soul (Randy Rhoads, EVH ect). Seriously music is not about just writing songs based on what progression goes next in the pattern and how complicated u can make it... its about making people feel your instrument and being complex and original at the same time. You have little knowledge of music don't you. Now I'm not bashing that you don't like DT, that's just an opinion. Where I take cause is the notion that they are empty of feeling due to the technicality. It's not as repetitive you think, if you actually read the music. To the laymans ear it may sound like just a lot of complex stuff, but to anyone who understands it, can hear the beauty of it. You probably also have no knowledge of classical music (ranging from Baroque-Classical-Romantacism), because that music is even more complex, but I guess it is all crap too. And don't pull the stupid, well they don't play with feeling card, that's a bullshit argument. I feel something, they feel something, millions of fans feel something. You assume people like them because they can shred. The ability to shred is just a tool in the toolbox, and their toolbox is overloaded with tools. People like their music (I can't speak for everyone of course) not because it is super complex for the sake of showing off, but because of the beauty of complexity. Take a music lesson outside of the standard rock world and you would learn a lot.
    I like you bigred
    thebigredjj10
    Fendergod666 wrote: Musicians are not mathematicians This guy honestly has no idea what music is. Probably doesn't know how to read music. Take a class in theory and then tell me how musicians aren't mathematicians.
    Agreed. The composer John Adams wrote 2 piano pieces call Phrygian Gates and China gates based off mathematics. Beautiful pieces. The reason for their beauty is the beauty of mathematics. Nature is mathematics. Everything boils down to codes and equations. So in the perfection of John Adams equations he used, he captures the essence of nature. Music is math. Even if the musician doesn't know they are using math, they are. It's like a little boy picking up 5 stones to put it 5 cups, whether he knows it or not, he has to use math (simple math, but math) to match the right amount of stones to cups.
    Tom4s
    So many people hating Wes in here. He is a professionnal musician and I bet that none of you are able to play or create what he did, like the two hands taping, monster riffs and etc. And he does this on stage during 1H30!
    Flea182
    I'm a fan of DT, and LB (yes, its possible), but i dont agree with what Wes said, he's a gd player but it sounds like he has a shit attitude
    fromzero
    It has nothing to do with Wes liking or disliking DT. I thought you guys were smart? Wes thinks he is. Limp Bizkit needs a drummer and Mike is a good drummer on that national level playing in 2 pretty under the radar bands. Obviously he did that as a trap to invite Mike to drum.
    The Spoon
    The article made Wes' comments look really serious...he was really messing around. Also, why do people even bother to respond to other people who hate their favorite bands? Nothing anyone says about your favorite band affects anything at all, why even bother?!
    J.R. Legrasse
    Minivirus2 wrote: hmcguire wrote: nailsarecruel wrote: hmcguire wrote: To say that Dream Theater not creative is ridiculous, I mean they pretty much invented a genre (Or at least made it famous) I get you. All those lazy prog *****s from the 70's didn't do enough for progressive music. I'm talking about prog metal, prog rock is an entirely different genre. Prog rock is often more jazzy and experimental then prog metal. Dude, Rainbow and Rush were around in the 70's. That **** pioneered prog metal. Loves me some DT, but they've done nothing wholly original with their sound.
    And in the '80s, there was Watchtower, Coroner, Deathrow, Helloween, Annihilator, Toxik and some blokes called Iron Maiden. Prog-metal didn't begin or end with Dream Theater.
    Sickz
    I will start of with saying that Dream Theater is one of my favorite bands, so people will probably label me as fanboy. But i needed to say *drumroll*, IT'S A MATTER OF OPINION! I personally love Dream Theaters music, i don't find it boring or unemotional. On the other hand one of my best friends (who is also a musician) does. You are allowed to say that a band aint your cup of tea, but you simply cannot state as a fact that they are more or less musicians or that there music is bad. Music can't be good or bad, cause it depends on who you ask. There! Now i'm done ranting.
    SoA_Joseph
    I'm sorry Limp Dickskit; I can't hear you over the actual, incredible musicianship that comprises Dream Theater. He's just being an arrogant c*ck, and should go back to minding his own business and ruining good songs like Behind Blue Eyes.
    Lightning_Ray
    Borland called the prog metal giants "Cheese Theater" and described them as mathematicians and not musicians.
    I laughed so hard at this! He's actually not that bad of a guitar player, but then saying that Dream Theather is "technique and speed over feeling and soul" when he's in Limp Bizkit, that's some serious trolling...
    robo37
    bf313 wrote: Ehh say what you will about Wes but I would much rather listen to Wes's Black Light Burns project than Dream Theater any day. Dream Theater bores me a lot partly because they do approach music from a very centric mathematical perspective and that's fine for some people but i've never been a fan of that type of music. I've always loved Wes's creative play style and just his general attitude towards music and the guitar. If anyone actually went to Wes's Twitter and read what he said it's pretty obvious that he is trolling hard and people are just getting seriously butthurt for no reason.
    Ah, 3 dislikes. I wonder how many of those people have actually listened to Black Light Burns...
    robo37
    Wes is by far one of the best music writters in america. As for Dream Theater, I can't comment, but I'd assume in this situation Wes's opinions should be respected and COMPLETELY disassosiated with Limp but valued as an actual song writter, but I don't know, maybe having to listen to Durst's shitty whining all the time ****ed with his head a bit, but he is a clever and creative man at least when it comes to Black Light Burns. And "Feeling and soul over technique and speed." is something I live my life by. Music is about creativity, not about being able to play 1000 notes per minuet. Again I haven't heard much of DT so I can't comment on their particular style.
    lVlaniac
    That guy shot himself on the foot when he said DT were matematicians because that just prooves that even mathematicians are capable of writting better music than LB
    iommi600
    jimbob32292 wrote: At least somebody semi famous who plays guitar even a little bit agrees with what ive been saying forever. Fucking John Pettrucci is literally a bootleg faster "prog(gay)metal" version of Paul Gilbert. He literally plays exactly the same and his sweep picking is so ****ing ugly sounding and distorted honestly Herman Li sounds like he does. Besides YES they are mathmaticians I mean to be honest music is all about math... or you can make it to be. The best are the ones who can take that and combine it with feeling and soul (Randy Rhoads, EVH ect). Seriously music is not about just writing songs based on what progression goes next in the pattern and how complicated u can make it... its about making people feel your instrument and being complex and original at the same time.
    Did you just compared Petrucci to Herman Li? Dear god... I think my brain just farted...
    bf313
    Ibeanez wrote: "But these guys can NOT write songs. Not a band. Musicians are not mathematicians. Feeling and soul over technique and speed. Not buying it, and never will." Still waiting for you to "write songs" and show some "feeling and soul", Wes.
    Cruel Melody, I Have A Need, I Am Where It Takes Me, Kill The Queen, and One Of Yours all have an intense amount of passion and emotion put into them. The entire Black Light Burns album Cruel Melody has more feeling and soul in it the any of the Dream Theater songs that I have ever listened to. If you judge Wes's work solely based on what he has done with Limp Bizkit then you are a fool.
    DejaSenti
    Wes Borland was lonely at his computer, got high and spent too much time on Twitter, spawning a crazy bashing war. Good job, Wes.
    purplexing
    I completely agree with Borland, I cannot listen to an entire dream theater song, it's too damn boring. I don't think I've ever met a DT fan that has never played an instrument. By this I mean that their fans aren't that interested in the sound of the music but in the technicality. Someone pointed out that technicality and "soul" are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with that but in the end DT still has no soul.
    brokndwn06
    im with wes.. nobody wants to listin to 12 minute songs,,never like DT never will... mike should have stayed with avenge 7. LB is DOPE! im going to get some nookie and break stuff... peace!
    robo37
    Cruel Melody, Iodine Sky, One of Yours, I Have a Need and The Mark are complete masterpieces. It's a shame Durst had to ruin it for him.
    powachord
    SkepsisMetal wrote: I would tend to agree with him. Does that make it true? Of course not. Just makes him another dickhead with an opinion. Just like me. And just like everyone else so far in the comments.
    This. You sir, have hit the nail on the head
    Fendergod666
    It's really funny because I'm listening to The Spirit Carries On as I read this. I laugh at anyone who says DT is bad. Not one song of theirs is poorly written. Half the people who hate on them probably have never picked up an instrument or taken a class in music theory. Oh boo hoo... Petrucci can play faster than you. That doesn't make him a bad musician no matter what excuses you come up with to say he is.
    Ibeanez
    bf313 wrote: Ibeanez wrote: "But these guys can NOT write songs. Not a band. Musicians are not mathematicians. Feeling and soul over technique and speed. Not buying it, and never will." Still waiting for you to "write songs" and show some "feeling and soul", Wes. Cruel Melody, I Have A Need, I Am Where It Takes Me, Kill The Queen, and One Of Yours all have an intense amount of passion and emotion put into them. The entire Black Light Burns album Cruel Melody has more feeling and soul in it the any of the Dream Theater songs that I have ever listened to. If you judge Wes's work solely based on what he has done with Limp Bizkit then you are a fool.
    LOL, ok kid.
    xwf
    I agree with Wes. Dream Theater is a proper name because they put me to sleep every time I hear them. It's not music, it's sports. "Hey man, look how fast and awesome we are. And we all do it at the same time so it sounds like shit." I'd much rather go to the best Ramones show ever over the best DT show ever.
    Fendergod666
    Musicians are not mathematicians
    This guy honestly has no idea what music is. Probably doesn't know how to read music. Take a class in theory and then tell me how musicians aren't mathematicians.
    Fendergod666
    xwf wrote: I agree with Wes. Dream Theater is a proper name because they put me to sleep every time I hear them. It's not music, it's sports. "Hey man, look how fast and awesome we are. And we all do it at the same time so it sounds like shit." I'd much rather go to the best Ramones show ever over the best DT show ever.
    If you complain about them being "too fast" You have clearly only listened to one song.
    Flea182
    SoA_Joseph wrote: I'm sorry Limp Dickskit; I can't hear you over the actual, incredible musicianship that comprises Dream Theater. He's just being an arrogant c*ck, and should go back to minding his own business and ruining good songs like Behind Blue Eyes.
    just so u know, Wes wasnt in the band at that point
    JMV12
    I don't really base my preferences in music on "emotion," "soul," "feeling," etc. Besides, whatever anyone thinks is full of "emotion" and "feeling" is completely subjective, and my views on what it is that constitutes those things are different from everyone else's, as are yours.
    Ibeanez
    "But these guys can NOT write songs. Not a band. Musicians are not mathematicians. Feeling and soul over technique and speed. Not buying it, and never will."
    Still waiting for you to "write songs" and show some "feeling and soul", Wes.
    Municipal Waste
    If you're talking Prog Metal beginnings and not mentioning Fates Warning... you need to educate yourself.
    DaniArrow
    Musicians are not mathematicians. Feeling and soul over technique and speed. Not buying it, and never will.
    TRUE
    dr-g0nz0
    Borland has a right to an opinion same as everyone else. Don't mind DT, but I can kinda see what he's getting at.
    NHECOS
    This guy is unbelieaveble a guy that is from Limp B thrashing Dream Theater?? This is very unreasonable to say the least.
    HarvesterofPain
    Sensationalism!!! Sensationalism everywhere!!! GOD, I wish we could post pictures here in the comment section.
    guitar7masta
    What a piece of shit. He's obviously NEVER even listened to DT. Sounds like a nasty case of jealousy, as this is coming from one of the most talentless hacks in the music industry.
    .:!j.man!:.
    Lol I can see exactly where Wes was coming from and I can see exactly how he meant it to sound. Even Mr.portnoy wants nothing to do with the obnoxious fans taking offence.