Dave Ellefson: 'Chicks Like Less Notes Kind Of Thing'

Drummers Dave Lombardo, Charlie Benante and Mike Portnoy beat anything that moved while Dave Ellefson and Frank Bello thumped the low end behind guitarists Kerry King and Chris Broderick.

Dave Ellefson: 'Chicks Like Less Notes Kind Of Thing'
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It was a headbanger's dream. Imagine Pantera/Down vocalist Phil Anselmo fronting a band consisting of three of the heaviest drummers, two of the most brutal bass players and two guitar players who will bring blood to the ears with their shredding. This metal menagerie came together on April 12 at the Key Club when Metal Masters 3 camped out in Hollywood for a night of some merciless jamming. Drummers Dave Lombardo, Charlie Benante and Mike Portnoy beat anything that moved while Dave Ellefson and Frank Bello thumped the low end behind guitarists Kerry King and Chris Broderick. Ex-Dream Theater drummer Mike Portnoy opened the evening with Adrenaline Mob and then this historic lineup of players took the stage. They ran through several Slayer songs including "Raining Blood" and "Angel Of Death" and some Pantera numbers like "Mouth For War," "A New Level," "Walk," "This Love" and "Fucking Hostile." Black Sabbath's Geezer Butler came up to play on "Hole In the Sky" with Anselmo doing a wickedly intense version of Ozzy. Sponsored by Hartke, Zoom and Samson, the event combined jams with more intimate moments where various musicians talked about their music and gave inspiring little sermons. Before the show began Megadeth's Dave Ellefson and Chris Broderick and Anthrax's Frank Bello sat down to talk a little bit about Metal Masters. UG: This gathering of metal musicians is very cool. But is there any sense of friendly competition amongst all of you? Dave Ellefson: It's definitely not competitive. Frank Bello: Definitely not. Broderick: No, not whatsoever. Really to tell you the truth it's one of hectic angst because of the way everything's just being thrown up onstage. Anytime you're playing a club like this where you've got three drummers that have their full kits up there and three bass players and a few guitarists and stuff like that, it's definitely a lot of work. Not only for us but also the crew that sets this thing up. Ellefson: I'd say you know who's competitive are the three drummers. And here's the funny thingall drummers like to play Slayer songs. When someone plays a Slayer riff, drummers just jump in. It's like a primal call to action. Bello: That's really well put because it's almost like they have to get this addiction out. They've played it a million times in their lives but it's, This is my time oh my god! And that's kinda what it is. Then everyone one of them played that same part. It's like, Wow, dude. Are Slayer songs difficult for bass players to get a handle on? Ellefson: I'd say the Slayer stuff is the hardest because it's so drum and guitar intensive and the bass plays such a vital role. But the bass isn't always playing a lot of notes, which is kind of a good lesson to learn. Bello: Exactly. Ellefson: You tend to think that, OK, if I just shred and learn all these notes I'm gonna arrive at some point. Then you find out the less notes you play the more money you make [laughs] and the more people show up. Bello: Yeah, less is more. Ellefson: Chicks like less notes kind of thing. Bello: Yeah, and you could look good doing it. Are there songs you play in your own bands that are difficult to master? Ellefson: Out of our own songs I'd say for me Holy Wars and Hangar 18 and pretty much anything off Rust In Peace is the most complicated stuff for me to play well every night. Bello: On Caught In a Mosh, I still have to watch everything because there's a lot of stuff going on in that song. I'm not even doing that song tonight. People know the song, c'mon. Got the Time, I'll probably do that just with Charlie as bass and drums alone. We did that the last time didn't we? Ellefson: Mmm. Bello: So I'll do that just to get a little different thing going. Yeah, the Slayer songs. I looked at YouTube to watch Tom because he was doing less than Kerry was doing. I'm still doing similar to what Kerry is doing but it's less and definitely less is more with Slayer. So it's kinda cool that we learned that here and we'll bring that with us. Have you learned that the bass playing in Slayer is different than what you bring to Anthrax? Bello: The way I play, yes. It is. I do that occasionally but usually I'll do something different and tell a story with my bass playing. I won't just follow the root all the time. Once in a while I'll do that but I'm anxious and that's the way I play. When you come together with these musicians from different bands, does it make you realize how different Megadeth is than Anthrax? How different Slayer is than Pantera? Bello: I learn.

"Then you find out the less notes you play the more money you make [laughs] and the more people show up."

Ellefson: Yeah, it was the big time. Frank and I went into this particular Metal Masters different because now there's more guys onstage and so now he and I are even divvying up bass duties. A lot of times I'm really laying back and playing a lot less and I'm happy to just kind of lay out and even kind of play simple roots like Es and F#s and just kinda keep the lines really simple. Because I've found in these jam situations over the years that when everybody wants to play all the notes, man, it's just a freakin' hornets nest out there. Bello: No matter how tight you are as a player it doesn't matter if somebody's gonna be different or somebody doesn't hear the same thing. A drum may be off somewhere with one of the drummers. There's three drummers [laughs] so this is different for us. Ellefson: Frank and I have actually been able to orchestrate bass lines together. Hey you take the octave. In fact there's one song where I'm actually playing a third up from him like way up in the top octave. I go, You know what? I'll take the higher third on this. Bello: And it sounds good because Dave and I have fun with this stuff. You're playing music from a bunch of different bandswhat are you looking forward to playing? Broderick: I was such a huge fan of Pantera growing up so it's a real honor to be up there and play with Phil. And just kind of play some of those guitar lines. Did you have a chance to spend any time with Pantera when they were around? Broderick: No, I didn't but I felt like I did from watching all their videos all the time. What made Pantera so special? Broderick: To me it was a few thingsfor one they were kind of bucking the trend at the time. When Cowboys From Hell came out, they were in Cargo shorts and flannel when the rest of the hair metal bands were still wearing makeup and eyeliner and stuff like that. Secondly they just had such a presence between Dimebag's playing and Phil's vocals and of course Vinnie and Rex as well. It was just one of those things where they commanded the stage and you also heard it through the CD too. Besides Pantera who did you listen to back in the day that influenced you? Broderick: Definitely all the shredders like Jason Becker, Paul Gilbert and Greg Howe and stuff. Also bands like King Diamond and Mercyful Fate before that. You two are really the cornerstones of Metal Masters. Bello: Dave and I have been doing this for a while with these clinic things so we kinda know each other. Pull back and you go and I'll come in. It doesn't matter because there's no ego for sure and we've been friends forever. It's just left at the door. And we watch the drummers kind of. We have to pull back tonight and that's what we're kinda doing. Right? Ellefson: Well it's interesting because depending on how many drummers are on deckeither one, two or all threeyou can feel things shifting and floating so you kinda gotta pick a drummer to lock onto. How would you describe the differences playing with Dave Lombardo, Mike Portnoy and Charlie Benante? Ellefson: Dave is the new guy on the deck tonight and as his wisdom shows, if in doubt he sits out. Which is cool because he doesn't have to jump up because the couple tunes he's gonna play and some of the clinic stuff he's gonna do is plenty. Because what he plays and how he plays is so jaw-droppingly amazing. And that just to me shows great musical maturity. That's kinda the thing I was even talking to Mike Portnoy about to was, Let's work parts out here. Is that a different approach than the first Metal Masters you did? Ellefson: The first one we did about a year ago was pretty simple: two bass players and two drummers and that was it. Then we started adding Kerry King and Scott Ian jumped on in New York when we did it and Phil Anselmo came up and we had a singer and it was like a real band now. So it was, We gotta get out of the way of the vocal. And then of course now adding the third drummer. Does the presence of a new musician change the dynamic of the music? Ellefson: Every guy that comes in completely shifts [the music] and the ground moves beneath you so to speak. Bello: And we have to catch it. Even in soundcheck and rehearsals it's not easy to catch all the time. You really have to focus because if you don't you're in trouble. If you could play with any musician dead or alive who would that be? Bello: I wouldn't mind Hendrix [laughs.] Ellefson: I'd say get Stanley Clarke up there and then we'd have another bass player kick these drummers down a notch.

"No matter how tight you are as a player it doesn't matter if somebody's gonna be different or somebody doesn't hear the same thing."

Bello: Or Jaco; Jaco would be fun. Come on in, Jaco. Ellefson: It's funny too with that because when we were growing up the jazz guys were the guys who got to do all this stuff. Cause they were revered as the uber shredder guys and they had all the great chops and they were a really tight community. A lot of em were like sidemen so to speak as well as some of the artist guys. So they're usually the ones that got the calls to do the clinics and to do these kinds of things. I even did a thing here with Bass Player Live! one time and that was a lot of low end rumble going on with a lot of bass players out there. But again I was the only rock guy and the only guy up there playing with a pick on the bass and still am actually tonight. So metal musicians are being showcased more in these types of clinics? Ellefson: It's so cool that our music, which has always been intense and progressive and ferocious, and metal musicians are being called up to do this kind of stuff. And it isn't just one or two of usit's all of us of our genre. It just goes to show like, Holy smoke, man, there's a lot of really intense and ferocious right-to-the-wall playing going on. The fact that we can do it in a jam setting too is amazing. Because most guys write songs and sometimes when we write songs it's not easy to jump out of that and just go throw down and jam someone else's tune because we're so locked into our own creative world. Bello: Really good point. Even learning these songs as we did is different for us; the way you approach learning the song is different. It's like, Alright, let's listen to what we have here and just get away from your whole thing that you have in your head and just open yourself up. You kinda have to do that with each one and even the Pantera songs because Rex is a great bass player. He has these little things you don't hear but I started YouTubing stuff and it was like, Ahh and you start picking out little things. Believe me technology has helped me a lot. Since Metal Masters is a clinic what type of advice would you pass along to young musicians? Bello: This is why I wore this shirt tonight [a Little Kids Rock t-shirt.] I believe in this stuff and I believe in passing the torch. Little Kids Rock and foundations like that. I made an inexpensive bass for that reason so parents can afford to buy one. We all do that; Dave did it too. That's our future and the continuation of what we do. I was that kid and I don't forget that. I have a five-year old and I want to pass the torch to him. So for me it's very, very important and that is our future and believe me I will be doing a lot more of that. Was that sense of passing the torch one of the main reasons why you initially got involved in Metal Masters? Ellefson: Our whole genre has been really brought into the spotlight mostly from video games and especially Guitar Hero: Rock Band in particular. But also our music from our bands we're getting called and asked to write songs specifically for video games now. And that of course, those game controllers are right in the hands of tomorrow's music listener and tomorrow's musician. They're the most intense probably of the whole thing because they love the shredding and the playing and they love the commitment. They realize the commitment it takes on their end to actually get good at doing this. It's a certain person and if you have that aptitude and that skill and quite honestly that discipline at that young of an age, that's a serious discipline to have at 10, 11, 12 or 13 years old. That's not a discipline a lot of people have but if they get committed that early, they maybe won't go on professionally but they're definitely gonna become great musicians. I think that's what they see with us is they're coming and wanting to dig into the details and the nuances. Granted a lot of the stuff can be on YouTube but for us to stand up there and give a short little lesson, it's like a personal lesson to 900 people. Bello: It really is; exactly. We have to cut back tonight our normal thing even more because there's a time thing here tonight. Usually when him and I do clinics together we have our thing but we cut that in half again. It's really strange but it's cool because it's actually built around a show so you get a little bit of both. Chris Broderick: I had no goals in this. It was really Mark from Zoom and Ellefson going, C'mon, dude, play it. We need another guitarist to fill in on a couple songs. I was like, Alright, I'll do it. You have an iPhone app out? Ellefson: It's the David Ellefson Rock Shop app and it's basically a mobile practice studio for guitar and bass players. Bello: I heard it's great. Ellefson: It's available at the Apple iTunes Apps store and basically you can plug in and play bass through it or play guitar through it. It's got a few effects on it so you can have flanger and different tones I think are appropriate for bass and different settings for clean, dirty and distorted guitar tones. The cool thing about it is you can go out and access your iTunes music library and bring it right into the app. We did a special thing where if you have the Megadeth Peace Sells album, which is actually tuned 50 cents flat, if you bring it in the App will automatically recognize it's that record and tune those songs up to A440. So you don't have to tune your bass. Also when you're in there you can do speed control, pitch control and there's a looper. So for instance if you want to learn the intro to Peace SellsBut Who's Buying you could actually grab that as a loop and slow it down without changing the pitch [sings the bass riff slowed down] so you can actually learn it like that. It's really designed to be an all-around, all-in-one portable musician practice school.

"Anytime you're playing a club like this where you've got three drummers that have their full kits up there and three bass players and a few guitarists and stuff like that, it's definitely a lot of work."

You're headlining on the second stage of the Mayhem Tour, which is closer to the audience. What's that been like? Bello: Well that's the whole point of it allyou'll have the audience right there and you have the option of going to the other stage. Nobody wants to go on early when there's nobody there and stuff like that so it's better for us to have the impact of the crowd and maybe push them over to the other side. We know just from the history that it works and I think that's a great bill. I just wish Megadeth was on with us. Seriously. Cause it's a friend to hang out with. We were talking with the guys from Slipknot and Slayer obviously and we're all buds so it would be great to have our buds on it and we do other than Megadeth. Megadeth have always been a big part of festivals. Do you like being involved in those types of shows? Broderick: I love to see it because it used to be you had to head over to Europe to get stuff like that. Now we're starting to see it in the States and for us to be spending most of the month of May touring with Rob Zombie and also hitting a lot of these festivals is pretty amazing in the States. I don't think 10 years ago that was really doable. And we're also going to South America to play Countdown to Extinction in its full length. Do you have any favorite songs from Countdown to Extinction? Broderick: You know what? When I get to play the whole CD I'll let you know because the repertoire we've done has been fairly limited. And now I get the chance to learn all of it. Rob Zombie has a great band with John 5. Have you hung out with John at all? Broderick: I've met John 5 but I really want to get to know him more and pick up some good country riffs from him and other stuff as well. Besides learning from the other musicians around you in Metal Masters, do you also learn new things about your own playing as you describe what you do to the audience? Bello: I'm just honest and I try to be as honest as I can. I don't pretend to be somebody that I'm not. I'm not this schooled guy who went through music class and music school. I started there and it didn't work for me; I developed my ear and that's how it works. I don't pretend I'm somebody I'm not. I'm just me. If you like my playing, great; if you don't, sorry, go to somebody else. That's just the way it is and this is it. I don't know how you feel, Dave. I just want to be honest with the thing. If I can help you get inspired, great; if you don't, dude, there's other players out there. Does it feel different playing with Frank Bello than Dave Ellefson? Broderick: Absolutely yeah but the songs I'm playing are different as well. To me it kinda fits the change in mood and style. But all the bass players definitely have a different sound and of course the drummers as well. The drummers tonight bring a completely different feel than what Shawn Drover brings to Megadeth? Broderick: Oh yeah, definitely. But again it falls right into the idea that they are different songs that we are playing. What has it been like playing guitar with Kerry King? Broderick: Umm, it's cool. Kerry has got a great right hand and rhythm and I love to watch him play and pull those riffs out. So yeah, it's really cool. Metal Masters is a salute to metal music. What are your feelings about the state of metal music right now with so many cool new bands coming up? Broderick: Yeah, there really are but it's so hard to define these days because it seems like music is evolving faster than people can keep up. So you get new genres and sub-genres like every 10 minutes and I'm like, What genre is that? I'm trying to think of the latest one I heard of: dub sub or something like that. At any rate I hear all these genres all the time and I think we need to get rid of those labels because once a band is labeled that way, I don't think people think they can be diverse at that point. Interview by Steven Rosen Ultimate-Guitar.Com 2012

63 comments sorted by best / new / date

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    ThrashRaptor
    Dude, Shorn, you have to look at it from Broderick's perspective. He's a phenomenal guitarist with classical training and a very theory-laden approach to playing, whereas Kerry knows comparatively very little about theory, and doesn't attempt to incorporate it into his playing. This is evident in his soloing. He does an excellent job despite not knowing all that much about music, but you can't expect Chris to look up to him or something if he's just not as well-versed. Chris probably looks at it based on the simplicity or the a-musicality of it. It's good stuff, but it's not thinking man's music. And that's just how he plays. Compared to what, say, Dave Mustaine would've said, like "He's a cool guy, and a hell of a guitarist, but he's not all that impressive, musically" or something, Chris, for being a super-technical shredder, was humble, and actually made an attempt to compliment him. And this is all under the assumption that Chris was being insincere at all. He's a really nice, humble guy, he could've been being completely honest.
    guitarman1992
    stondagain wrote: "What has it been like playing guitar with Kerry King?" Broderick: (Thinking: "He SUCKS! He sucks he sucks he sucks!") "Umm, it's cool."
    After seeing Broderick live with Megadeth a few weeks back and witnessing his mastery of metal and classical guitar in action, I have to say he is one of the best guitarists alive today.
    iommi600
    Dave Ellefson: 'Chicks Like Less Notes Kind Of Thing'
    So, that's why I only scored 3 girls when playing in a jazz band?
    stondagain
    "What has it been like playing guitar with Kerry King?" Broderick: (Thinking: "He SUCKS! He sucks he sucks he sucks!") "Umm, it's cool."
    Eclectic Lizard
    DarkWolfXV wrote: So if chicks like less notes. We should all play You Suffer.
    Napalm Death get ALL the babes
    Iommianity
    Abacus11 wrote: Shornifier wrote: Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King. Agreed. It's become cool lately to put Kerry King down but he's one of the most influential metal guitarists of the last 30 years. Chris Broderick is an adult... so unlike most of the ignorant metal kids on this site, he respects King's playing.
    God forbid someone doesn't like Kerry King as a guitar player. When you have to put other people's tastes down to defend someone, that says something, and it's also not very mature. I love old Slayer, and I love Kerry's song writing, but have you ever seen Kerry play unaccompanied, or in a non-Slayer setting? Not very pretty. In conclusion, get over it. Getting butthurt and calling everyone children doesn't do you, your point, or Kerry any favors.
    ruker
    KingNothing666 wrote: I think everyone's a bit jelous of Kerry, just because you'll never be as successful as him...
    Says the guy with Slayer listed as his first favorite band. lol...
    sugeci
    Shornifier wrote: Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King.
    Just because he has King in his name doesn't mean you have to treat him as such.
    Ivanthered
    I'll agree that Kerry's pretty worthless as far as solos but I'll be damned if I come across anyone who riffs harder than that man. He is a beast of a rhythm player as far as I'm concerned.
    Realityburn
    This is my take on Kerry King as well. He's not much of a solo player at all. In fact some of his solos are painful to listen to. But as far as playing thrash metal rhythm guitar goes? There are few players out there I would say are better. Kerry King, Scott Ian, Dave Mustaine, James Hetfield, and Eric Peterson. Would their respective bands be as respected and influential as they are if all 5 of them were not awesome rhythm guitarists? I doubt it. Just because a guitarist doesn't know much about theory or can't shred doesn't mean they aren't worthy of respect.
    TheExterminator
    CaliforniaKid wrote: Doesn't matter if he's good... he makes his living as a musician which is what most posters here would like to do but can't. Tenacity can obviously checkmate talent. Kerry King had his own BC Rich signature guitar. How about you?
    HURDUR SUCCESS = AUTOMATIC FELLATIO. Anyone who expects to make money being a Metal musician (or any real musician) is delusional. It isn't about the money, especially in Metal and Punk, and just because the Big 4, who have long since been commercialized and are completely disconnected from the Metal world, think otherwise, doesn't make it so. And who the Hell in their right mind would want a BC Rich, anyway.
    stondagain
    Quick background: Im an old-time thrasher. Been playing guitar for 30 years. Went to GIT in 89, played in metal bands in the Bay Area for years in the early 90s. F*cking grunge ruined everything back then and dont get me started on nu-metal. Glad to see thrash making a comeback! Anyway, back in my teens I took the Ride The Lightning LP from my friend because he didnt like it the guitars play like drummers, lol. I bought Hell Awaits when it first came out, when all my friends were listening to hair metal. Reign In Blood changed my LIFE. I saw Megadeth in 84 in a tiny club in Sacramento with Verbal Abuse opening for them & Mustaine in all his alcoholic glory. Saw Metallica at Day on the Green in 85, when they went on BEFORE Y&T, Ratt & the Scorpions. I was at Clash of the Titans in 91 when Slayer went on first (they were rotating the order) and DESTROYED Anthrax & Megadeth (when Alice In Chains was the opener and got booed off the stage.) I was there, man, and I was the only thrash guy in my circle of musician friends. Having said all that, my comment was poking fun at what Broderick thought of King as a GUITARIST. not a metal icon. Im tight with the guys in Exodus, and have met King hes cool as f*ck. But I agree with someone above that Hanneman wrote most of the great Slayer riffs most of Kings post-80s stuff sounds like he made it up in 5 minutes Hanneman added just enough of a touch of melody to make the riffs groove. And lets not even discuss guitar solos with regards to King hes said several times that he doesnt jam, he doesnt learn other peoples songs when he plays guitar, he plays Slayer songs. Thats it, and hes good at what he does. But as far as a guitarist, hes below just about every other guitar player from the thrash era the riffs just dont compare to classic Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Testament, Exodus you name it. Reign In Blood was straight-up lightning in a bottle, and I do consider it the #1 thrash album of all time. But King isnt a great guitarist hes a just a good Slayer riff player.
    Cannibal Koala
    Shornifier wrote: Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King.
    Asserting your opinion with ad hominem "facts" is pretty ignorant too, buddy.
    Abacus11
    Shornifier wrote: Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King.
    Agreed. It's become cool lately to put Kerry King down but he's one of the most influential metal guitarists of the last 30 years. Chris Broderick is an adult... so unlike most of the ignorant metal kids on this site, he respects King's playing.
    Iommianity
    TheExterminator wrote: Abacus11 wrote: Shornifier wrote: Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King. Agreed. It's become cool lately to put Kerry King down but he's one of the most influential metal guitarists of the last 30 years. Chris Broderick is an adult... so unlike most of the ignorant metal kids on this site, he respects King's playing. How exactly was he influential? By playing crappy "chaotic" solos that only made the cut because they fit Slayer's style? The last time Kerry King's solos were any good, it was Show No Mercy, and Hanneman probably has more to do with making up Slayer's guitar section, and even then they weren't -that- good, with, again, Show No Mercy having the best examples. Face it. Kerry King isn't good. He isn't the god or legendary guitar icon that die-hard Slayer fanboys make him out to be. Hell, you have to be particularly fanatical and blind to even think that he is.
    What does any of that have to do with whether or not Slayer were influential as hell? They're easily one of the most influential metal bands of all time, and no small part of it is Kerry and Jeff's guitar work, even if they're not that great as guitarists.
    DarthTyrannus83
    whats funny is that its seems like the only criteria for being a good guitar player is playing good solos wake the **** up, this is metal youre talking about, a song can live without no solo, however theres absolutely no excuse if the riffs are shit riffing and tight rhythm are much more important of a factor than soloing, when will poeple realize that of course soloing is great, and im really big on neo-classical or jazz-influenced solos, but lets not forget that its the sound of low register distorted guitar string sringe that when you hear it, you know its ****in metal, and Slayer and King in particular, always had that gritty sound in their riffs, which pretty much laid all the ground for modern metal
    Iommianity
    Dynamight wrote: Ivanthered wrote: I'll agree that Kerry's pretty worthless as far as solos but I'll be damned if I come across anyone who riffs harder than that man. He is a beast of a rhythm player as far as I'm concerned. How do you even measure "riffs harder"? Does he hit the notes harder than anyone else? I haven't noticed that. While some of Slayer's riffs are great, you're grossly overestimating the skill it takes to play them. And to the guy who says Kerry King is influential: show me one artist who specifically cites Kerry King as an influence.
    Death metal. The end. Seriously though, no. If you want to pretend Slayer aren't influential, I'm certainly not going to trudge up over 30 years of recorded metal history in various sub genres. Show No Mercy and Hell Awaits were extremely influential for first wave black metal, along side Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, Bathory, and Venom. Slayer influenced Morbid Angel, Death, Pestilence, Napalm Death, essentially every first wave death metal/grindcore band. Not liking Slayer/finding them overrated/calling a spade a spade doesn't mean you get to disregard metal history. Get a clue.
    guitarman1992
    My thought process while reading the first paragraph; holy shit! holy SHit! This is too good to be tru- damnit, how'd Kerry King make it into this?! Almost a perfect lineup.
    GMPX
    DarthTyrannus83 wrote: this is metal youre talking about, a song can live without no solo, however theres absolutely no excuse if the riffs are shit riffing and tight rhythm are much more important of a factor than soloing
    Damn right, what is it that makes some of the greatest thrash songs of all time? The riff(s), Angel of Death, Domination, Wake up Dead, Caught in a Mosh, Master of Puppets, the list is almost endless, but in every one of those songs it's the riff that keeps you coming back for more, a good solo is just icing on the cake. It's funny how nobody ever seems to talk down Malcolm Young for 'just being' a rhythm guitarist.
    littlebyrno
    Goddamn people are so stupid. I mean really - arguing about Kerry King? C'mon guys. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of him, how good he is, how bad he is or whatever you can argue about him. What matters the most is that he loves what he does. I love guitar, he loves guitar, we all love guitar. Now shut up.
    TheExterminator
    Abacus11 wrote: Shornifier wrote: Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King. Agreed. It's become cool lately to put Kerry King down but he's one of the most influential metal guitarists of the last 30 years. Chris Broderick is an adult... so unlike most of the ignorant metal kids on this site, he respects King's playing.
    How exactly was he influential? By playing crappy "chaotic" solos that only made the cut because they fit Slayer's style? The last time Kerry King's solos were any good, it was Show No Mercy, and Hanneman probably has more to do with making up Slayer's guitar section, and even then they weren't -that- good, with, again, Show No Mercy having the best examples. Face it. Kerry King isn't good. He isn't the god or legendary guitar icon that die-hard Slayer fanboys make him out to be. Hell, you have to be particularly fanatical and blind to even think that he is.
    CaliforniaKid
    Doesn't matter if he's good... he makes his living as a musician which is what most posters here would like to do but can't. Tenacity can obviously checkmate talent. Kerry King had his own BC Rich signature guitar. How about you?
    thebigredjj10
    DarkWolfXV wrote: So if chicks like less notes. We should all play You Suffer.
    XD This is the best advice I have ever been given. Thank you. Now to try it out on the ladies...
    SirWurscht
    Dynamight wrote: Ivanthered wrote: I'll agree that Kerry's pretty worthless as far as solos but I'll be damned if I come across anyone who riffs harder than that man. He is a beast of a rhythm player as far as I'm concerned. How do you even measure "riffs harder"? Does he hit the notes harder than anyone else? I haven't noticed that. While some of Slayer's riffs are great, you're grossly overestimating the skill it takes to play them. And to the guy who says Kerry King is influential: show me one artist who specifically cites Kerry King as an influence.
    Kerry King's not influental you mean? I think death metal would not exist in it's today form if there were no Slayer, and you know, King wrote halt of their songs. He may not be the best guitar player, for sure. But he wrote some of metal's best songs (though I prefer the Hanneman ones mostly). He's part of the heaviest band on the planet, that says it all. And he's a badass!
    Sudaka
    GMPX wrote: DarthTyrannus83 wrote: this is metal youre talking about, a song can live without no solo, however theres absolutely no excuse if the riffs are shit riffing and tight rhythm are much more important of a factor than soloing Damn right, what is it that makes some of the greatest thrash songs of all time? The riff(s), Angel of Death, Domination, Wake up Dead, Caught in a Mosh, Master of Puppets, the list is almost endless, but in every one of those songs it's the riff that keeps you coming back for more, a good solo is just icing on the cake. It's funny how nobody ever seems to talk down Malcolm Young for 'just being' a rhythm guitarist.
    that's because Malcolm is the best and he wrote all those great, catchy, groovy riffs you listen when you think of hard rock. I'd like to say that we should listen to what Ellefson and Bello says about that sometimes less is more. Not only myself as a bassist, guitarist could also add a lot to their playing by "taking away" some of their needless stuff. But no, we are always arguing if a guitarist is good for his solo. That's the mature approach to music we all need to have...
    Iommianity
    Also, it's apparently international Slayer day. So there's no room for pansiness; just listen to Hell Awaits, like I am, and accept that Kerry does as Kerry do.
    YgO
    One thing I respect about KK's solos is that they are different. There's a million shredders out there who sound exactly the same as each other. He may not be the most technical, but he can call his chaotic style, love it or hate it, his own and it fits Slayer's music. Quit hatin' and give some props for variety and originality.
    Shornifier
    Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King.
    Minivirus2
    Gotta love how this entire comments section was taken over by three of Chris's words. Yeah, everyone hates on Kerry for his solos. Are they justified? Yeah, sure, and I'm a Slayer fan. The thing is, as Chris (I believe) also mentioned, he's a great rhythm player. You can't knock rhythm players, they're quintessential to music, metal and especially thrash. Why have this huge debate about Kerry King's abilities when music is subjective. If someone thinks one thing, it's also totally unlikely you're going to change their mind by arguing your point over the internet.
    tennesseehild
    TheExterminator wrote: HURDUR SUCCESS = AUTOMATIC FELLATIO. Anyone who expects to make money being a Metal musician (or any real musician) is delusional. It isn't about the money, especially in Metal and Punk, and just because the Big 4, who have long since been commercialized and are completely disconnected from the Metal world, think otherwise, doesn't make it so. And who the Hell in their right mind would want a BC Rich, anyway.
    This guy so much so my Kerry King warlock is tattooed on my back and my custom B.C. Rich Mockingbird is tattooed on my arm. Or professional's: Machine Head, Slipknot, Dave Mustaine used to use one, Slash, Five Finger Death Punch, I can do this all day.
    CaliforniaKid
    TheExterminator wrote: CaliforniaKid wrote: Doesn't matter if he's good... he makes his living as a musician which is what most posters here would like to do but can't. Tenacity can obviously checkmate talent. Kerry King had his own BC Rich signature guitar. How about you? HURDUR SUCCESS = AUTOMATIC FELLATIO. Anyone who expects to make money being a Metal musician (or any real musician) is delusional. It isn't about the money, especially in Metal and Punk, and just because the Big 4, who have long since been commercialized and are completely disconnected from the Metal world, think otherwise, doesn't make it so. And who the Hell in their right mind would want a BC Rich, anyway.
    This just in from a talentless wannabe.
    YgO
    Show me an artist directly citing Slayer or Kerry King as an influence.
    Ever heard the Pantera song "Goddamn Electric"? If not, just look up the lyrics.
    GMPX
    "Drummers Dave Lombardo, Charlie Benante and Mike Portnoy beat anything that moved" Would have been nice to get Lars amongst that lot, deflate the ego a bit
    biff022
    stondagain wrote: Quick background: Im an old-time thrasher. Been playing guitar for 30 years. Went to GIT in 89, played in metal bands in the Bay Area for years in the early 90s. F*cking grunge ruined everything back then and dont get me started on nu-metal. Glad to see thrash making a comeback! Anyway, back in my teens I took the Ride The Lightning LP from my friend because he didnt like it the guitars play like drummers, lol. I bought Hell Awaits when it first came out, when all my friends were listening to hair metal. Reign In Blood changed my LIFE. I saw Megadeth in 84 in a tiny club in Sacramento with Verbal Abuse opening for them & Mustaine in all his alcoholic glory. Saw Metallica at Day on the Green in 85, when they went on BEFORE Y&T, Ratt & the Scorpions. I was at Clash of the Titans in 91 when Slayer went on first (they were rotating the order) and DESTROYED Anthrax & Megadeth (when Alice In Chains was the opener and got booed off the stage.) I was there, man, and I was the only thrash guy in my circle of musician friends. Having said all that, my comment was poking fun at what Broderick thought of King as a GUITARIST. not a metal icon. Im tight with the guys in Exodus, and have met King hes cool as f*ck. But I agree with someone above that Hanneman wrote most of the great Slayer riffs most of Kings post-80s stuff sounds like he made it up in 5 minutes Hanneman added just enough of a touch of melody to make the riffs groove. And lets not even discuss guitar solos with regards to King hes said several times that he doesnt jam, he doesnt learn other peoples songs when he plays guitar, he plays Slayer songs. Thats it, and hes good at what he does. But as far as a guitarist, hes below just about every other guitar player from the thrash era the riffs just dont compare to classic Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Testament, Exodus you name it. Reign In Blood was straight-up lightning in a bottle, and I do consider it the #1 thrash album of all time. But King isnt a great guitarist hes a just a good Slayer riff player.
    Great comment and right on about Kerry King... but I always felt grunge left room for and paid tribute to thrash... It just erased the weak ass hair metal. Actually I'd say that Metallica's Black Album ruined everything for thrash in the 90's... but I digress. Also, in the last question, what "cool bands" are being referred to? I'd like a list.
    KingNothing666
    I think everyone's a bit jelous of Kerry, just because you'll never be as successful as him...
    HollowPoint423
    Wait, did we just got flustered over a guitar player that has been doing the same thing for 30 years with success vs a guy that's been in the "lime light" for 5 years? I like both guitar players, but c'mon people. Dave's current pet vs kerry king? Heck, I bet the very same discussion was brought up when Dave brought in marty. Flavor of the month for Megadeth.
    CrawlingHorror
    "He sounds like a beginner" (Dave Meniketti when asked about Mick Mars sometime in the 1980's). If money and fame are the chief determinants of who is best or most influential (as some of the commenters here seem to believe---this is a logical fallacy known as a force of popularity argument), then Mars, who really is an inferior guitar player on a technical basis compared to most of his peers of the era, wins. Venom, whose first two albums I have and who I saw live once (and sounded like total crap---imagine a cement mixer cranked up through Marshalls) was probably the most influential band for death metal. Slayer were downright cerebral compared to Venom, who, to me, were almost a comedy act. Mercyful Fate were bloody great, but there was an element in the whole thrash/black metal movement who wanted, as one punter put it while the band was on stage opening for Slayer and Exodus at the Hollywood Palladium, "play noise, not music!" because all he wanted was something aggressive to mosh to. The first time I saw Slayer was right after their first record was released. It was at this little hole in the wall club in Buena Park called The Woodstock, I think it was. My opinion of them at time was, "man, they kicked heaps of ass, but commercially, they have nowhere to go in the U.S." Just shows you never know. The fact is that people tend to gravitate to simple music. Hell, look at the political dialog in the U.S. It's one perpetual shouting match between folks who never got emotionally beyond the third grade. "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public" (H.L. Mencken)
    GuitarNub123
    I just love guitar and metal and I think all guitar players have a lot to offer. For me the fun factor is the memorable riff in Angel of Death, I don't get tired of playing it. I think it shows how valid it is, and it's 25 + years old. Also I doubt there are a lot of people in general that are as technical and knowledgeable as Chris B.
    swave75
    iommi600 wrote: Dave Ellefson: 'Chicks Like Less Notes Kind Of Thing' So, that's why I only scored 3 girls when playing in a jazz band?
    I knew I should have been in a jazz band!
    CaliforniaKid
    CrawlingHorror wrote: "He sounds like a beginner" (Dave Meniketti when asked about Mick Mars sometime in the 1980's). If money and fame are the chief determinants of who is best or most influential (as some of the commenters here seem to believe---this is a logical fallacy known as a force of popularity argument), then Mars, who really is an inferior guitar player on a technical basis compared to most of his peers of the era, wins. Venom, whose first two albums I have and who I saw live once (and sounded like total crap---imagine a cement mixer cranked up through Marshalls) was probably the most influential band for death metal. Slayer were downright cerebral compared to Venom, who, to me, were almost a comedy act. Mercyful Fate were bloody great, but there was an element in the whole thrash/black metal movement who wanted, as one punter put it while the band was on stage opening for Slayer and Exodus at the Hollywood Palladium, "play noise, not music!" because all he wanted was something aggressive to mosh to. The first time I saw Slayer was right after their first record was released. It was at this little hole in the wall club in Buena Park called The Woodstock, I think it was. My opinion of them at time was, "man, they kicked heaps of ass, but commercially, they have nowhere to go in the U.S." Just shows you never know. The fact is that people tend to gravitate to simple music. Hell, look at the political dialog in the U.S. It's one perpetual shouting match between folks who never got emotionally beyond the third grade. "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public" (H.L. Mencken)
    "You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything" David Byrne
    bassplayer0895
    biff022 wrote: Great comment and right on about Kerry King... but I always felt grunge left room for and paid tribute to thrash... It just erased the weak ass hair metal. Actually I'd say that Metallica's Black Album ruined everything for thrash in the 90's... but I digress. Also, in the last question, what "cool bands" are being referred to? I'd like a list.
    Annihilator is a kickass Thrash band but i wasn't born and lived through the 80's like the stondagain. But music is music and its everyone's taste
    link no1
    Shornifier wrote: Holy shit...and dude - stondagain - not gonna dislike your comment, but that was pretty ignorant; Kerry King does not suck. How so you ask? He's in ****in Slayer. Even the most metal dudes on the scene today still look up to Kerry King.
    People look up to Kerry King because, lets face it, he is a ****ing cool guy. His actual guitar skills are not great though and yes, the most metal guys agree. It's a good thing to be able to criticise the music/musicians you like.