Ex-Misfits Guitarist: 'I Wish Lars Ulrich Would Sue the Whole Internet and Fix Piracy'

"You wouldn't believe how many huge musicians have regular jobs," says Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein.

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Former Misfits axeman Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein recently discussed the matter of music piracy, calling it the industry's biggest issue and giving nothing but props to Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich for his Napster legal battle efforts.

After recently explaining Phoenix New Times that illegal downloading is theft, Doyle was asked to which extent was he affected by piracy.

"Everybody has," he replied. "Especially the smaller bands and artists, they suffer the most. It's not like [Led] Zeppelin and huge acts, that don't really get affected. You know, everyone got so mad when Lars went to sue Napster and everyone was like 'What the f--k?'

"It's like, what do you mean what the f--k? He doesn't need the money, but everybody else does! It's hard man. You wouldn't believe how many huge musicians that are popular have regular jobs."

The guitarist then stated he would like Ulrich to repeat his lawsuit and sue the entire internet.

"I wish he would do it again, but sue the whole Internet and fix it so nobody can," he said. "And with movies too, it's ridiculous. It costs so much money to make a record! Especially for people like me, I funded the whole record. I did it all out of pocket, bought all the gear and did it all ourselves. That's expensive on its own."

Doyle was finally asked on whether he's among the lucky musicians able to live off the money made entirely from their music. "[Huge sigh] I don't think I'm gonna answer that," the guitarist replied. "You gotta do what you gotta do. You have to feed everyone, and pay everybody," he concluded.

The matter of music piracy is clearly a complex issue. Let us know what you think in the comments.

243 comments sorted by best / new / date

    Nero Galon
    Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein. Now that's a name.
    david.sp.3388
    do you know what is a "stage name"???
    Jacques Nel
    I don't think anyone will ever be able to successfully stop downloads. Someone will always find a way around it. It's always been that way.
    Jacques Nel
    Que everyone using the line "I don't [ever] download myself, but..."
    EpsilonX
    I downloaded his album, but I did so with intentions of still buying it. After listening to the album, that hasn't changed. I want a physical copy and I want to support Doyle (as well as Alex Story and the rest of his band). I just didn't want to wait to read it haha. Hopefully Doyle would understand Hopefully they're selling copies at the Danzig w/Doyle show next month
    Rimfrost
    You can't stop pircay, but i do hope the industry finds a way so that both big and small acts can sustain a decent living (that isn't minimum wage on maximum hours) from what should be considered their job. It kinda sucks that lots og bands are forced to handle a secondary job or just live from the scraps they can get.
    CraftyDoc
    There is already a way, which most old dinosaurs fail to acknowledge or adopt (some have though in all fairness) which is how a lot of pop acts are garnering viewers and that's youtube. It in affect, curbs piracy since your music is out for free (for all intents and purposes) which is what their audience really want in the first place, and gets you that audience you were looking for in the first place (and maybe some cashflow). Hate to give this example on UG but that how JB got his break, amongst others. There are so many ways to make money as a musician or entertainer that these guys dont even realize, which make the "piracy is killing the music industry/rock and roll" argument invalid or at least weak. The Music industry and the old guard of Rock needs to change their set ways and learn some new skills, which frankly speaking are not hard to master, or throw some money at to solve.
    Kaseke
    The thing is, with pop, you can release so much more songs than with rock. Pop doesen't price you for creativity. Pop music is pumping out cheap musicvideos, and songs with no meaning whatsoever to youtube and radio. They play with looks, and catchy tunes, and with it's popularity. In this sense, rock can't even compete in the same enviroment. Sure, some videos in youtube might just raise your popularity, but nothing groundbreaking isn't gonna come from it.
    MaggaraMarine
    Yeah, pop music sucks and rock music rulez 4eva! (sarcastic) Rock music is as much commercial music as pop music is. There's lots of different kind of pop music and lots of different kind of rock music. Of course the mainstream stuff is usually very simple and repetitive. But that's why it's mainstream - it's very easy to listen to. But not all pop music is mainstream. And not all pop songs in the radio are simple and lack creativity. I would say Lady Gaga is pretty original - you need to admit it even if you don't like her music. Most modern rock songs you hear on the radio are really similar to the pop you hear on the radio - repetitive and simple. I mean, it sounds different but it's still kind of similar and uses similar structures and stuff, just played on different instruments. I personally don't really like it. I would say it's actually pop music "disguised" as rock music (for example Nickelback). Not that there's nothing wrong with it. Some people like it and the songs are catchy and easy to listen to. But I just don't like listening to it.
    snarkman
    "Pop music is pumping out cheap musicvideos, and songs with no meaning whatsoever to youtube and radio." I'd love for you to say this to a pop artist, and see their reaction.
    thebigredjj10
    @Kaseke That's kind of a broad statement about rock. It varies depending on the band/ genre/ style. Some progressive rock bands or bands who are very obsessive about their music (or both, like Tool) may take a long time to complete an album, while others who rely on a more improvised style may take much less. There are many examples of bands recording records (many even considered great) quickly and releasing them not soon after. There is no right or wrong way, as either of these are fine, but not all rock music is meticulously thought out. Many artists rely on improvisation and prefer not to overthink their music. These artists are quite capable of releasing a lot of music quickly. Thinking that time spent on music has any bearing on the quality of music is silly, and using that as an attack on pop music is a bad argument and only makes your opinion look ridiculous. I am not particularly fond of pop music, but the amount of time put in writing is not a valid critique.
    MaggaraMarine
    Agreed. Actually usually good songs are written really fast. Because then you retain the same feeling as when you started writing the song and it makes the song flow really well. Sometimes you just feel inspired and can write a song in less than an hour. You may lose the feeling the song originally had if writing it takes too long. Famous rock bands aren't releasing new albums all the time because they are touring and also recording an album today takes a lot more time than in the 60s. Back in the 60s rock bands released more albums (Led Zeppelin released their first two albums in the same year and they are also my favorite Zeppelin albums). Recording an album only took a week or two - they were pretty much recorded live with just a few overdubs (Black Sabbath's first album was recorded in a day IIRC). Bands don't usually write songs before they know they are soon going to the studio. So it doesn't matter if you release albums every year or every five years. Bands don't spend five years writing songs. Also, rock and pop music are wide genres. You can't generalize them. There's so much different kinds of pop and so much different kinds of rock.
    randomsaguy
    Youtube just acts as a form of advertising your music though, you don't get any royalties or license fees from the views. This doesn't stop people from simply pirating your music anyway, and you would have to be viral to justify your record company to give a most-likely unrecouped band decent tour support. So yeah, this basically leaves you back at square 1. If you're in a big band the fees people pay to attend your gigs could compensate your loss of artist royalties due to piracy, but if you're not at that stage it might just cripple your career
    slipknot3325698
    Actually, if you get a large enough amount of views Youtube will give you a small amount of money for the amount of traffic. They'll add ads to your video and for each click you'll get money in your AdSense account. While it's not much, look at people like Ray William Johnson. As I've read, he does very well for someone who only makes Youtube videos.
    randomsaguy
    Oh yeah, I forgot about the ads You make a good point. I don't actually know how much income you can get from this or whether it's feasible to rely on your videos to stay popular, but hey, at least Youtube rewards you. Honestly though, albums have become dirt cheap, everyone who really likes a band could surely scrape a few bucks out of their wallets to support them
    HitmanJenkins
    You don't get a lot from ads unless you get thousands of views over several videos, but if you make sure that you have several sources of income (like Bandcamp, merch, any form of royalties) then it can add up. I think the best way for artists to survive nowadays is to go DIY, do as much themselves as possible so they can keep as much money as possible.
    Arcaobord
    The only reason some youtube users like Ray make a living is because they get a million plus views per video and post at least once a week. And that's just one person, and in some cases another person or a crew. But in reality, that's nothing to split between an entire band, not even mentioning touring and recording costs. PLUS, I don't know what kind of band could SUCCESSFULLY write, record, and film a music video to a GOOD song each and every week. Yeah right. Let alone get a million plus views every time. It would be nice, but in reality it would only barely work for the most popular bands, who don't even need it.
    PnT
    The videogames industry is also pretty affected by downloads, but guess what? Steam makes tons of dosh from selling games. You just gotta find/create a service that pleases both consumers and sellers. Many artists have been giving the middle finger to their pirate audience, disregarding they are actually potential sources of money. Way to go!
    azkiklerump
    Exactly! I do not give credence to the idea of intellectual property (which is essentially arbitrary ending of post-scarcity); however I still use Steam because it is more like a service. Not to say there aren't nuances with Steam's model, but it's still agreeable enough.
    Wisthler
    Steam basically ended 90% of internet piracy, you need an original copy to join multiplayer games, and most of their servers now are linked with Steam servers.
    Rimfrost
    Games are a bit different, because gamers tend to be willing to pay for games and you really dont have to look long for gamers who demonize used sales (for some stupid reason) or pircay. Downloading isnt really that big a part of the gaming culture, maybe partly because its a hassle to do on consoles and obviously because Steam bargains are borderline insane.
    Vinson
    Yep! Lets all make a living on Youtube. Im sure Youtube pays very well for people watching your videos. Just give all your music away, Youtube will pay the bills. Spend a little money (and by a little I mean several thousand dollar for a cheap effort) and record your stuff and put it all on Youtube!!! That's where the money is!
    Elderer
    So who are these 'big' musicians that work regular jobs to support themselves?Names please.
    Jacques Nel
    I would love to know. I don't see Dave Grohl flipping burgers.
    mitchy86
    i think once you get to the stage of selling out arenas around the world, it's time to put down the spatula.
    sideslick9001
    Dave Grohl apparently has (or at least had) a day-job
    sideslick
    This was me, BTW. I was bored at school, forgot my password, and the password reset-page was blocked, so I just logged in with Google. Gotta love this video!
    zeroceid
    Remember a band called Reuben? Got a pretty big following and even got to the point where they headlined some second and third stages at festivals. They all had other jobs (a lot of songs where to do about this very topic) and now they have had to call it day.
    dralithi
    Type O Negative. Before he passed away, Peter Steele was a park ranger to pay the bills.
    geor4ge
    dude was it not 1994 before he hit ti big with type o????Steele worked for the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation up until he began touring with Type O Negative in the summer of 1994.[16] He was based at Brooklyn Heights Promenade,[21] where his job involved park maintenance,[22] driving vehicles including garbage trucks and steamrollers,[23] and eventual promotion to the role of Park Supervisor.[16] Steele considered his days working for the Parks Department to be among his happiest
    Rimfrost
    Don't know if they are considered "big", but they are pretty well-known in their homeland,but I think most of the members of Ulver have secondary jobs to sustain a living.
    Jacques Nel
    Don't mean to sound rude...but yeah no one knows who that is.
    Rimfrost
    Black Metal fans probably do and they have had some succes with electronic music (in scandinavia) the last 15 years.
    HitmanJenkins
    I wouldn't consider Ulver to be a big band. Well known amongst the underground yes, but in the grand scheme of things they're not that big.
    l0ld4v3
    It would saddened my life to not know about Ulver.
    Shadow914
    Agreed, what those men have done is exquisite, it saddens my life to know people DON'T know of them.
    Commandantee
    "I don't know who this band is, so nobody else does either" Congratulations, **** of the day award goes to you.
    l0ld4v3
    I wouldn't toss Ulver among regular bands. I don't think Ryggs is in it for the money either.
    Rimfrost
    He recently wrote a very angry and dissapointed letter abouth their situation, that's why they are trying to find new ways to distribute their newest album. They aren't in it for the money, but hey need money to do what they do.
    reid.adams.908
    Props to this guy for mentioning Ulver... And actually they do have decent following to anyone who asks Sure they aren't big, but when people even in small towns across the world know your name you know you're doing something right
    kratos379
    Ne Obliviscaris is another black metal band that are like that. They actually got a lot of acclaim for their last album, but it's not like they're rich now. I know Gojira was really struggling for a while. A lot of musicians do have to work a second job, but not many are really coming to my mind right now.
    Rimfrost
    Lazare from Solefald is a local newsreporter in Norway. And while they don't have secondary jobs i think Arch Enemy is, or atleast were, struggling to keep the wheels running.
    Arcaobord
    These may not be what you're looking for, but they are semi-big. For one, Dave Mustaine from Megadeth worked for MTV for a while during the 90's. But I know a ton of musicians from bands I listen to, not necessarily huge, but they all work day jobs. Every member in the band All Shall Perish works at home off tour. Same with All That Remains, Killswitch Engage. There have been a couple of bands that I listen to who have broken up, because they couldn't sustain off of what money they were making.
    haifisch234
    Don't know whether consider them as being "huge", but the guys from Sodom have regular jobs as far as I know.
    ermonski
    Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden works for an airline as a pilot.
    chicho.arnello
    SUPPORT THEMSELVES, do you really think Bruce has to work as a pilot to support himself?
    Jazz1992
    I actually think he HAD to, back in the 90s when he wasn't in Maiden and had a solo band.
    Arthur6767
    What about used record stores? I'm a little older than most here so I have a lot of vinyl but almost all of it was bought at used record stores. I still buy albums at thrift stores and garage sales, and what about Ebay? Is buying a second hand cd or LP theft?
    dralithi
    Clearly Microsoft and the publishers think so. They wanted a cut of the XBone secondary sales and were going to only allow selected stores to do so (Gamestop - further reinforcing their monopoly). Sony took the high road first and said nope to that BS. I know this isn't IGN.com, but I think it's still relevant.
    christianonbass
    I love used CD stores. Reminds me of days past when I walked into a record store to look around, not knowing which one to buy! Having the CD is so much better than a download---bought or not.
    Rimfrost
    I miss record stores, the last chain in Denmark is slowly tirning into a clothes store and i expect them to close down anytime soon. Now there really isn't any decent place to buy new music, unless you listen to the most popular acts.
    christianonbass
    I know many people thing record stores are evil corporate places, but I miss them. More and more we don't even leave the house to buy stuff. We don't interact with people except by smart phone. Arguing in comment sections doesn't count heh heh
    VicVanity
    while I was growing up in the 70's and early 80`s we would record songs off the radio onto cassette . the music industry claimed this was also theft . the courts called bullshit. in all honesty the real villain is the record industry.
    ibanez124
    It was hard to hit pause at the right time to cut out the commercials, and I would always miss the first 7 seconds of the song I wanted ha ha
    Face R1pper
    So because the record industry sells a product that you want to have but don't want to pay for, that makes them a villain?
    christianonbass
    @Faceripper: That IS the definition of stealing. Well, there are many who don't WANT to pay, but pay anyway because that's what you do if you want something...you buy it!
    ripper992
    No it's not, the piracy just got way out of control, you can't compare the cassette thing to the current situation
    Kriggs
    Just keep touring then!! I know I'd rather do that than be stuck in my office all day typing on UG forums.
    estabon37
    That might be an option now because portable recording gear is pretty affordable for its level of quality now, but it's only in the last 5-10 years that such equipment has existed. Unfortunately, it doesn't add hours to the day, which is necessary if you're trying to tour and record at the same time. I'm more perplexed by this notion that bands have a 'right' not to work two jobs. Honestly, that concept didn't even exist til the 60s, and even then only for the world's biggest groups. True indulgence of big bands didn't come in til the 80s and 90s, and look at what it gave us: millions upon millions of dollars lost to advertising and 'production costs'. It would be easier to feel bad about downloading albums if the industry hadn't proved that it doesn't deserve our money, and many 'artists' hadn't shown that musicians who succeed and become rich tend to do the same thing as successful actors and businesspeople: buy a mansion or two and a hundred cars. The music industry's wage gap isn't that different from the real world, where many people work two jobs, so musicians can't be thought immune from having to work while they play.
    Megadeth2011
    I have no issues buying the album, but I do have issues paying $15 for an album that the artist will make very little money from. I'd rather download it, then go see them live and buy the album from the merch booth, where they'll get more of a profit.
    slaygod666
    i hear u here...that should be the next thing here...bands should only sell cd's while on tour instead of puttin them in stores...oh an go independent an record themselves since they do not see much profit in the first place while on a label
    postmortem2006
    Good luck with preventing piracy. When one tactic gets hammered down, there'll always be someone to find another to pirate music, films and whatever else they see fit. Probably porn. It's inevitable in this day and age unfortunately.
    Kaseke
    I download music beacause I don't have the money to buy every record I would like to. Still, I always support small bands if I happen to like them. Only the big ones are those whom albums I may pirate, and if I deem them fit, I buy their record when I happen to gather enough cash, or then plainly delete their music.
    stevethecurse
    You're still a jerkoff. It's not like you're starving and stealing some bread to live. That's like saying I can't afford to buy every new pair of sneakers that comes out so it's okay for me to steal them. Dick.
    l0ld4v3
    But if I download an album, the physical copy of it would still be with it's owner. Can I steal a copy of a car?
    Vinson
    You stole his work. Just because it is replicable doesn't mean your not stealing it! And dude! Seriously!!! You can't afford $.99 for a F^%%#ING song?!?!?! Sell your computer, and anything you listen to music on, you must be starving!
    azkiklerump
    In order for something to be stolen it has to be rivalrous. Take it from a patent attorney:
    Vinson
    So those that DID get busted for piracy....they could just use that defense to get out of it? It's ****ing stealing!
    SofaKingMatthew
    I do the same thing with cars. Man I want that one so bad but I can't afford it so I just steal it and it's NOT grand theft auto, right?
    christianonbass
    Apparently it's not theft if you are broke haha. Strange, when I was strung out on Heroin, using the "I only stole when I didn't have money" defense didn't work.
    razorback91
    Illogical statement, just think about is for a few seconds.
    SofaKingMatthew
    The film I am working on right now costs $25,000. It's mine. I paid $25,000 for it. I didn't give it to you. I put it up for sale. You stole it. You're guilty.
    l0ld4v3
    It may have cost YOU that. But is it really worth it for ME to pay for it? I worked for my money, why should I spent it on you?
    jonathan.barber
    Well, don't watch it or listen to it. Maybe if you focused your energy on finding a decent job, and making something of yourself, you wouldn't be worried over paying a trivial sum to be entertained.
    joe.viellenave
    It's not, because it's public domain. If you have a good enough 3D printer, you can have a car, and free tunes Your argument is about as hol(e)y as the Vatican's sprinkler system.
    eddiehimself
    Sorry, but I really don't think you can sue the ENTIRE internet just because people aren't buying your songs any more. The cat is well and truly out the bag when it comes to music piracy. There is nothing you can do about it now that wouldn't seriously compromise peoples' civil liberties. The way I see it is the record companies have got 2 options: they can either continue on with their corporate dinosaur lawsuits, but I think that is going to be about as helpful as a typewriter manufacturer suing Microsoft for lost sales, or they can get with the times and try to find new ways to stay relevant, like, not having such ridiculous prices on new music and skimming 95% of the profits for themselves.
    dralithi
    Stop the lawsuits and make access to paid music inexpensive, but more convenient and reliable than piracy. Cricket Wireless Muve Music has a huge catalog of artists and I can download as much as I want onto my phone. Whatever royalties are paid as part of my monthly phone bill and it's not that much, because I have unlimited everything for $50. Try that with Sprint or AT&T, fuhgetaboutit.
    Michos112
    Music is just too expensive, most of the people who download music from the net can't afford buying it, so it is no loss for music industry because they would not buy it anyway.
    Vinson
    $.99 is too expensive?!?!?!?!?!
    Shadow914
    Where do I purchase an entire album for $.99? I don't listen to pop nonsense where you only care for one song. I prefer to purchase and listen to the FULL catalog of an artist's work.
    Wisthler
    1 dollar, in argentina, 1 ****ing dollar just turns out to be 8 pesos(AR). So get the idea that people have priorities other than buying albums and such, and if you are a metal musician pffff.... To leave things clear to you, most of the time you have to pay to play.
    stevethecurse
    Too expensive? Do you know how much it costs to properly produce music? Go home, you're drunk.
    l0ld4v3
    lol, do you know how much inflation can make impossible for some of us to obtain imported products (not only cd's)? Go home, you're american.
    Second Rate
    HOLY ECONOMIC ILLITERACY!! The music industry didn't cause inflation. The musicians, filmmakers, whatever didn't cause inflation. You are not entitled to the fruits of another man's labour because whatever tin pot dictatorship or third world socialist, communofascist, fascist, communist, whatever cesspool you live in doesn't understand basic monetary theory. If inflation is that big a problem where you are, you should be worrying about more important things than downloading albums for free. Your country's monetary woes (which i bet is bullshit, you're probably just some stupid american hipster with a Che Guevara infatuation, enjoyed that first semester of world civilization with your equally economically retarded hippie professor, didn't you?) do not give you the right to treat citizens of other nations as if they are slaves, churls, serfs, whatever. I also find it quite comical that you can afford a computer and internet access, but can't spring for a 99 cent song download or a 12 dollar album.
    azkiklerump
    Speaking of economics.. what is the equilibrium price of anything that can be duplicated endlessly at no functional cost (ie infinite effective supply)?
    gonzalezirving3
    I don't really mind "piracy". actually, I believe in the long run it helps you. Musicians since the dawn of time had always made their money by playing gigs or commissions with the objective of composing for royalty or church. I know a guy who shares all of his music through facebook, youtube, sound cloud etc. because of this he is quite popular here where we live and always has his gigs packed with people. he is also always booked for like 3 months ahead of time playing clubs all over the island. he makes enough money to dedicate himself to his music and has never received a cent from selling a cd. his money comes from an entrance fee people pay at the clubs to get in and see him. if you know how to sell yourself people will come to see you no matter what style of music you play. everything has an audience. If a guy like john petrucci can have a net worth of 3 million without help from mtv, radio etc anyone can do it
    reid.adams.908
    and on top of that, think about how much faster piracy gets a bands name out? If a kid hears of a band they like, but they know they can't afford any cd's, that kid will most likely NOT listen to them, or explore that band because he can't afford it, with piracy it allows everyone not just kids to explore, share their music at an expedited rate, so others can hear of them Piracy spreads someones music faster than purchasing physical copies will. and in the long run it creates more fans, who will, in time, probably see the band on tour at least once or twice, who will also probably buy their merch Anyways, who cares that you won't get that .0001% cut from the sale anyways? The record companies own everything.
    SofaKingMatthew
    How about we the artists just stop making art, turn off all of our fan pages, YouTube channels, web sites, get days jobs and say "**** you." That's kind of where I'm at with the whole thing. I worked 20 hours a day for a year straight, no days off, then gross profit $42. That's the meaning of life right there, 42 is. It means that no matter how hard you work as an artist unless you work within the confines of the major label/studio system you aren't making money. You downloaders who say "**** the industry" make it more humorously interesting because as an independent content creator that came to understand that people just don't pay for online content and then came straight to L.A. and signed up with the industry, all I see is the downloaders making sure that that big film/music still gets the best of the best of artists. If you'd pay us, we'd say "**** the industry too." Not only do we get ****ed by them but we get ****ed by you too. People approach it by saying we need to stop illegal downloading. The approach we really need to use is getting people to understand the value of art and the amount of hard work it takes to be a national artist. Maybe you play in a band your self or make film. Maybe you are king shit in your home town. That's great. We, as national artists, have to try to be that in every town just to cover the costs of delivering our product to the masses. Stop and think about how much is would cost for you to go on a 500 mile road trip to play a gig. Take your answer and then multiply that by 250 becuase you're gonna have to play at least that many shows a year to get a real shot at that success you want so bad. Make sure to factor in $400 in motel rooms a night, with everyone sharing, then RV's and busses cost about $1 a mile to move. We're at $900 just to play a show, or shoot a film, in another city. I didn't even include food, or anything else of the million things we need to survive as humans. Yes, we get the support of having fans, and having amazing lives, and I appreciate every gift I have but there are times when I want normalcy. I think about how I can't own the latest TV, or really have a car unless I want to spend $1800 a month paying for it an moving it. I don't get to see my family but once a year. I don't get to really maintain normal relationships or have a social bubble. Hey, and then guess what. You have to pay to play. Everyone has to pay to play. But, you don't get paid unless someone says, "I think I am going to make a donation to my favorite independent artist, today." That's the "new industry." Make your art and it better be ****ing good. Even then, no one is paying. It's not a victimless crime. When I say crime I am not talking about downloading. I'm talking about the complete lack of humanity demonstrated by downloaders when it comes to making sure the artists they finger bang their girl friends to get something to eat.
    l0ld4v3
    You have a rough life? I'm a college graduate with no job perspectives in a crumbling economy. Welcome to the world.
    Vinson
    WOW! AMAZING! This dude puts it all into perspective, and the first post is effectively " Let me download your work for free" UNBELIEVABLE!!! Then some college grad who doesn't have a job is pissed because this guy works for a living on the road, when he can't because he bought the wrong skills... IDIOT! WHY did you go to college? Were there real jobs available? Musicians practice and learn their skills just like you did...they learned skills that they could use. Do you tell a new doctor: "Give me a couple free surgeries...I'll decide if I want to pay for them later."???
    stogma
    So what's your band? Let us have a listen... I hate big record companies like the next guy but I listen to local/community radio stations here in Australia and when I like a small independent artist I jump online and buy their album to support them. I always make sure I go and watch them live as well. Most of these bands usually have some kind of 'pay what you think it's worth' system. I like this model and usually pay ~10 bucks for an EP and ~20 bucks for an album. I'm happy to give the artist that money directly rather than them receiving a pittance, like a buck or two to split between the members of the group, which is what the record companies usually cough up in royalties. Not everyone is an arse when it comes to buying/downloading music but I'll agree that most are.
    SofaKingMatthew
    So... say the name of my work, then it gets like 200 down flags from butt hurt anonymous trolls on the internet, I start getting harassed from anonymous profiles on Facebook, someone starts harassing and trolling me here simply because I had the guts to state my opinion? No thanks. "Yo kid. Ima computer. Stop all the downloadin'."
    stogma
    You're thinking too much about this. Butt hurt from trolls is nothing in the greater scheme of life, those trolls usually have an attention span of . so it wouldn't last long anyway. Even if they did FB you then you ban them, simple. What if you put your band up and 20 people people really dig it. Those 20 people then like it on facebook and share it with their friends, all of sudden you have 50 people talking about it etc. You could always PM the band name to those interested.
    Job4ADeadCowboy
    There's your problem, you're paying 400 a night for a motel room while you have an RV? You need a million things to survive? all I need is water and a loaf of bread or some apples. Honestly, half this you don't even need. Hell, i'm sure half these artist could make more money if they didn't want to live so luxurious on the road. I remember hearing an interview with the singer from papa roach on the radio and he was talking about how it was weird going home and having to do chores like take out the trash. Are you serious? So i'm guessing there's an extra 2000 added on for a professional butt wiper. That figures just a guesstimate however. I download music just as a sample if like the cd i'll buy it, If I like a couple songs i'll buy it. If it's complete trash i won't buy it and i'll never listen to it again. There are ways around these things if you think smart and actually plan out a budget instead of just throwing money at things hoping some money will be thrown at you. Keep your masters locked away so they don't get leaked, like stated in a previous comment put your songs on youtube so it's already free to listen to plus you get more attention to your youtube channel. If it costs too much to record, do it yourself. if you can't do it yourself or you just don't trust yourself. there are plenty of Audio engineering schools around that will record you for free so the students can get more experience. If it frustrates you so deeply then you should choose another industry to start your art in.
    fatgleeson
    'National band'? I can't scrape together 2 guys to play a FREE GIG in my LOCAL BAR to 10 people. Im assuming you're American/Canadian, and those are highly-populated countries. My country has a population of about 4mil people. If I were to be in a national band in my country I would be ****ing THRILLED!
    Arcaobord
    Amen brother! I am sort of curious what band you are in though. I honestly don't care if it's my style or not, I'm just really curious. I don't see why you'd be hated on, you're just speaking the truth. Sometimes you need to be brave to make a change.
    azkiklerump
    You seem to still be under the impression that because you've generated information, you automatically deserve payment. I've not been able to find a better way to illustrate how absurd IP is than through this "debate"
    l0ld4v3
    I thought punk was about the music and attitude, not about profit.
    Vinson
    OK, it's not about the profit....how much do you think they need to just break even?
    BigMikeBDD
    Was it called "piracy" when I sat in my room listening to the radio as a kid and hit record when my favorite song came on? Because it's the same thing.
    ZeppelinruleZ
    Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but this study says people who pirate are 10x more likely to purchase music as well: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/ap...
    squirttilithurt
    yeah.. because I trust everything I read online. Especially articles that are 3 paragraphs long.
    TaV0
    You're not the kind of person who read newspapers, are you? The Guardian is actually a ver respectable news source.
    ttuskey
    Lars may be a tool and a number one ass but he was 100% spot-on with the whole Napster thing. It absolutely is stealing, downloading songs. I wish it could be 100% wiped out, these guys deserve to be paid for their work (read that as more to them and less to the labels, too).
    jimmyjoneser22
    For every artist I know that is complaining, there is a more talented artist recording songs in their bedroom poosting songs to bandcamp for free just to get a FRACTION of the fans that these 'big' musicians are 'struggling' with..the real problem is that these older musicians are not USED to this business model and do NOT know how to capitalize off of it. Nowadays it's about taking full control of your band, you have to be willing to promote your own merchandise and book some of your own touring spots these days, and it IS possible if you are making quality music. Periphery are a great example, Misha Mansoor went from a nerdy metalhead writing prog in his bedroom to selling out international metal festivals, because he understood the model of the online industry
    azkiklerump
    Correct. It is a case of musicians failing to understand and adapt to the reality that information is a post-scarce good and instead of endeavoring to do so, scream "muh intellectual property" and suing people for making duplicates.
    dralithi
    You've got a point. It's too bad that Angel Vivaldi doesn't get more credit, but there are probably huge limitations in reaching a larger audience when you're instrumental only.
    Oyface
    I completely agree with you. Just wanted to post that. Anyone who thinks piracy is all good fun should just go **** off.
    azkiklerump
    Prove that downloading = stealing.
    theTYTAN
    Have you heard of thing called 3d printers. In the future almost everyone will have one and you'll be able to print off whatever you want so long as you have the materials. So if people all adopt your opinion that only physical things can be stolen, As the printers get better, The only people who will be able to make any money are the people who provide the materials and printer manufacturers and maybe some service providers. No thank you I'll go be a vagabond and die of starvation. In a world like this Ideas would have no value, which would bring progress to an almost complete halt. You can talk a bunch of crap about equilibrium value all you want but Ideas are the most valuable thing you can come up with and If society continues to devalue them then we'll be going nowhere fast.
    Eirien
    I thought Misfits were a punk band but apparently I'm wrong.
    l0ld4v3
    True enough. Whoever downvotes you doesn't really gets the comment.
    Eirien
    I'm glad someone got it. Never heard such corporate drivel come from a punk before.
    Eirien
    Piracy =/= theft If someone downloads your music or film, you can still watch it if you want. If someone steals your car, can you still drive it? I know I'm oversimplifying it and I don't care. If you are making art solely to make money, you're doing it wrong. Support artists who deserve it and SHARE EVERYTHING.
    Vinson
    Stupidest BS ever! You want bands to practice for years, buy thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, pay to have a recording recorded, mixed, and mastered, but they should just share everything??? Absolutely selfish and stupid!
    christianonbass
    Right! How many people want to get trained for a specific job for years, and then pay to work? Who likes working for free when you have no income? Piracy is theft. Funny that Misfits guy basically said, "Since Lars is a douche, he should do our dirty work and sue the internet." Many people were pissed at Lars for the Napster thing, but no musicians who were losing money as a result of piracy had a problem with Lars at the time...unless they are full of BS
    Eirien
    lol didn't expect too many people to agree with me as many people on here have the unrealistic dream of starting a band, getting signed and making lots of money. It's harder to make good money from music now than it has been for a good few decades. However, if you want to make music for the love of it and share it with an audience it is much much easier than it ever has been. We live in the perfect time for that. Music is not going to die with the industry. A lot of people will still make it because they are passionate about it. And when you have such a passion for something, putting your own money into it without expecting a big return is really not a big deal (although I can understand why established musicians disagree). I know people who spend thousands of pounds on fishing equipment and licenses or model railways. I don't think they're doing it for money; they do it because it's what they love. I know I'm being idealistic. I know it can cost a lot of money to make a good quality album and even more for a film. There are ways to get it done though. Like I said, invest in what you feel deserves it and if you are talented, hard working and show passion for what you do, people might just invest in you in return. Just don't act like you're entitled to anything.
    azkiklerump
    Labor does not have inherent value. If one's labor creates something that can be copied infinitely and is therefore non-rivalrous, then the equilibrium price of that product is zero. This is why it is incredibly stupid to try to sell information in the same way as actual goods and expect the same results.
    Sammy Mantis
    Oversimplfying? Yeah, just a bit. It's called "intellectual property" dude, might want to look it up.
    Tom Ak40
    I think the reason everyone was pissed at Lars was because of the way he handled the situation, not because he wanted to sue because people stole his music.
    celvy666
    There a lots of interesting, balanced and relevant arguments for and against music piracy. This is not one of them.
    BlackLabel5150
    I try to buy from the musician(s) website... usually they have some package deal and it makes me feel like I'm supporting the bands I like. I have no problem forking out 20 bucks for a record with only 5 songs I really dig and 5 or so mediocre tracks. If you like the musician(s)buy the album and support them.
    Slayer35
    I pirate albums first to see if they're good, if I like them, I go and buy them.
    tonello
    I love how people on here are like "well they are big names so they can afford it" but if it was that person's music getting stolen, they would be the first in line for piracy restrictions.
    TomWhaley
    I agree. As much as I can't stand Ulrich, he's obviously in the right when it comes to internet piracy. Bottom line, it's stealing, regardless of it's a society norm now.
    schaller
    For what it's worth to whomever, I worked as an intern at one of the big four and over my 4 months or so of payless employment I watched them downsize quite a bit and it was sad to watch all the employees who had known eachother for years and years have to leave one another. But I cheered myself up afterwards by visiting their fridge which was always full stocked with expensive drinks and treats, or I would just go outside and look at the lovely city because they were in one of the most expensive districts in a historical building. Sometimes I'd just go out for lunch with another employee in their luxurious company car.
    Bhaaa
    interesting discussion. Lets put it that way. If the records companies would stop ****ing people around for the money (and bands), there would be more records to sell. in the 60, 70, 80s, 90s, great bands, not many genres, good music. later, we have hits after hits made of a 12 y old with a Pc. People don't rely on music anymore. Just a piece high consumption goods, through it away and buy a new one. Look, a CD back then cost (at the beginning of this new tech) = let s say 10 USD. 20 years ago, 20 USD (I live in Europe so the change rate is not perfect but you see the picture). Before with the 33 s, that cost like 8 USD. I remember to save my money to go and get the next maiden, malmsteen, tallica, megadeth etc. Great feeling. Then comes the internet. And still those records companies have no clues on what is going on. We ll need to wait for Apple to come with Itunes and put a price on songs/records (Apple did, not the records companies). And again, you buy at low cost, and wait the the next Hit to come by. And people download...I really want to support bands! but how much do they really get in all that? you have the label, then Apple, and maybe the band at the end with a couple a cents per records. Very fair no? Ho the internet is bad and people download so we don't get our billions doing nothing. Completely stupid. You touch the planet with the net. The problem was on "old" industry unwilling to adapt and to put their business mind on the next century. Yepp, falldown is hard to accept.
    slaygod666
    an this misfit guy cannot stand up for his music an wants to push it on lars to do it lol what a weak dude trying to get someone else to do his dirty work haha what a joke he is
    GMPX
    Too late Frankenstein, we have a generation of kids who have no concept of walking in to a store to buy a CD, all they know is mp3 download sites. I don't know the answer to ensure artists get their fair share, though the last gig I went to (Deftones), they were charging $45 for the worst quality t-shirt I've ever felt, I think they understand where the money needs to come from now.
    Dynamight
    "Sue the internet and fix piracy" Haha, kids say the darnedest things these days.
    reid.adams.908
    And another thing..... if you're gonna sue the internet looks like youtube has got to go down too, Doyle and Lars. Do you not realize that? People don't NEED to download or buy ANYTHING. LITERALLY you can find ANY ALBUM ANY SONG BY ANY BAND ON YOUTUBE, and stream it FOR FREE. Did you forget about that, Doyle? So you want to take down youtube now? Because that's the only way to completely eliminate free music. Hell you're also going to have to get rid of Pandora, Rhapsody, Spotify, and plenty of other sources that stream music for free. It just doesn't work like that. If you truly want to make everyone pay for your music, looks like youre going to have to cut out the businesses and websites that are spreading your name out the most as well.
    Rustylunchbox
    Before I say this I am an old school Misfits fan and fan of rock and metal so don't take it that I am downtalking the genre. I would like to point out though that even if he was selling more albums I don't think Doyle would be making boat loads of cash and able to live completely off of it. He would also have to stop touring and promoting to keep most of it. Metal and rock in general doesn't sell like pop and rap these days sadly :-(
    simon.boutet.77
    Download punishes bands, not only record companies. What used to be called indie record companies are mostly dead, and they're the ones who used to give a chance to new acts or bands that made something else than mainstream music. They knew that most likely, the records they produced wouldn't go platinum, but they figured if they sold something like 20,000, they'd match the production costs. Now, these bands don't get funded to record, because people download, so all that gets recorded properly is the stuff that the record companies know will sell massively, even with the download phenomenon. Bottom line: when I go to record stores now, they only sell mainstream stuff, and I'd have to dig out new bands on the net, and I don't have the time to do that with the job, the kids, etc.
    l0ld4v3
    Record labels push mainstream oriented music. Record labels often forget or neglect international market opportunities. Down here in my country, we found out about Mastodon because they were touring with Metallica. Promoters were all about 'tallica, but we didn't even knew Mastodon was here as well. And they are a kick ass band, on a record label, getting no promotion on an international level. They missed out on cash due to poor marketing, their records aren't available here. So unless piracy, how are they going to get exposure?
    kane.rapnik.9
    to be honest i hate piracy, i try my best to avoid it, i do have a few pirated items,(most of it stuff i just haven't deleted) but i usually pirate albums i'm not too sure i'm gonna like, then buy a real disk because i like to have physical copy, (so if you wish to call shenanigans i suggest you come see my c'd collection and compare it to my itunes)
    ibanez124
    "to be honest i hate piracy"; "but i usually pirate albums " Make up your mind
    Oyface
    He does have a point. What he's describing is not very different from checking out bands on youtube before buying their albums. As long as he either deletes the files or buys the album, of course.
    ZOSO <(")
    did anybody else find it interesting how he wouldn't answer the question?
    lou.tjahjono
    Is he still relevant? I mean he is a FORMER member of a band that's still kicks butt, but hardly ever mentioned anymore these days, yes I know piracy is a huge issue nowadays, but he's bringing up a 10 year old case that people are trying to forget. He's asking for attention if you ask me
    victor420
    do you know not the history behind the misfits? Doyle doesn't even like Jerry, who is his bro