NJ Jr-V Review

manufacturer: B.C. Rich date: 11/17/2009 category: Electric Guitars
B.C. Rich: NJ Jr-V
The 2003 N.J. Series takes B.C.Rich performance and attitude to a new level. It now features the revolutionary new Floyd Rose Speed Loader tremolo bridge on all models.
 Sound: 9.5
 Overall Impression: 9.3
 Reliability & Durability: 9
 Action, Fit & Finish: 8.1
 Features: 9.4
 Overall rating:
 Reviewer rating:
 Users rating:
reviews (8) 22 comments vote for this gear:
overall: 9.6
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: unregistered, on september 21, 2004
2 of 3 people found this review helpful

Purchased from: ebay

Features: 2002 NJ Jr-V fast back heel, made in Japan, 24 fret, I think it's a 25. 5 inch scale which suits me well cause I'm 6'1" and I got big hands so it feels more comfortable to me. Ash body maple neck I believe, gloss black finish, it's a V, floyd rose, EMG HZ-4's, volume tone and 3 way toggle, came with case. // 10

Sound: I play hard rock/metal and it suits that style just fine, but the stock pick ups were garbage so I put in the EMG HZ's and it does clean real nice now aswell. I use a POD as my pre-amp and run it into the effects return of a Peavey Heritage 2X12 combo that has a tube power section really adds some life to the pod, when I'm jammin with my drummer and bass player I use a rack and 2 4X12 cabs, in the rack is a Behringer Auto-Com (comp/limiter/expander/gate), Behringer Virtualizer, dual 15 band Dod EQ and a Crown Ce1000 power amp. The guitar has a very warm tone to it with the better pick-ups. // 10

Action, Fit & Finish: It was set up fine at the factory bt every guitarist should be able to set up a guitar to his/her own liking that being said I set it up to my liking. As stated above BC Rich stock pick-ups are horrid so I installed the EMG HZ's. The guitar was a factory second due to some flaws in the finish so I'll rate it lower on this topic, but to me its a matter of playability not looks. // 8

Reliability & Durability: I'm sure it would take anything, I've had it for 3 years but I broke one of the lock screws on the floyd and BC Rich was good enough to send me 3 replacements free of charge which was damn nice of em if you ask me, so I suppose the hardware will last so long as I don't go hercules on the stringlock screws, lol. I'd never jam with out a back up, no matter how good the guitar is. It's a V everybody know the trouble spots that the finish will chip or wear off. // 10

Overall Impression: I play hard rock/metal, it's a black BC Rich V with the widow headstock, it screems metal. Been playing for about 6 and a half years steady was in a metal band for a bit but I'm just jammin for fun now. If it were lost/stolen or broken beyond repair I would have to go to the custom shop and order a custom model with the old head stock. Then I would get another NJ like this one or one of the new Platinum Pro models. // 10

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
overall: 7.4
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: Edika, on may 14, 2009
2 of 3 people found this review helpful

Price paid: € 838

Purchased from: The Musicfarm

Features: The actual price from musicfarm was around 710$ with a BC Rich hardshell case for their V guitars, but with shipping costs and customs (sent to Europe) the price went a bit higher. UPS managed to rough up the case a bit (I am never using this company again!). This is a 2008 model made in S.Korea, featuring a mahogany body and a maple neck with a 25.5 scale. It has an ebony fetboard with a kind of coffin inlay in the 12th fret only and 24 jumbo frets, a bound fingerboard and body with pearl as well and white binding. The top is flat and the color is onyx(black) with a gloss finish. It has an original Floyd Rose but not the ones made in Germany, it has two active humbuckers the EMG 81 on the bridge and the EMG 85 on the neck, with a 3-way pickup selector, two volume knobs for each pickup and a tone knob. It also has the grover kidney tuners. As you may have read from other reviews this guitar has a lot of features for a it's price so for all it has to offer it gets an almost prefect mark. I should point out that one of the main reasons I bought this guitar was for the looks! // 9

Sound: Now this was kind of tricky. I usually play metal music in the more extreme genres, but am open to blues, jazz and fusion. I bought this guitar to use it just for metal. I tried to find one to try it out before deciding whether to buy it but I could not and my impatiente got the better of me. After this small prologue I would say that I must be one of the few people that was dissapointed in the begining. I have had this guitar for 4 months now and my oppinion has changed for the better. The problem is that my main guitar is Carvin DC-400T which is a far superior instrument with a wide sonic range and hotter pickups than the EMG's. Also the last 8 months I have been playng through a Mesa triple rectifier with the oversized 4X12 Mesa cab and NO effects. So my first impression was not very good. It sounded a more bassy, I had to increase the gain to have the same intensity in the distortion. And the fact that it was my first V it was a bit hard to get used to it. Everybody was saying about it's amazing sustain, due to the neckthrough and EMG's but I would rate it as a decent sustain but certainly not endless BUT what I did notice form the begining was how quiet the EMG's were. Also the sound had of the pickups had the famous EMG compressed sound that give them sharpness and clarity (again not as much as the Carvin pickups). After playing for a month with this guitar only and experimenting with the amplifier, I managed to have a very heavy sound. It required some extra mids to and some fine tuning of the presence knob but finally I got the sound I was looking for. And the cleans are very decent too, especially the EMG 85 that produces a rather warm sound (something I did not expect from it from everything I have read for the EMG's). The EMG 81 sounded weak but it was just problem of hight that was solved easily. Also the jumbo frets help you play quite effortessly. So now I really like this guitar, I just had to remind myself why I bought it. I still think it is a bit bassy in general but the notes sound sharp and well defined even with a lot of distortion. About variety, well you can play different styles and sound quite good but this guitar kind of makes you want to play heavy music hehehe! // 8

Action, Fit & Finish: I don't know if the guys in musicfarm did a setup or they send it with the factory setting but when it arrived it sounded bad. The E, A and D strings where buzzing like crazy and the Floyd was a bit high and leaning forward. I don't know whether the overseas journey influenced theguitar so much but it needed a good setup. What I didn't like at a first glance was that the workmanship was mediocre. Maybe I am too harsh since I was kind of comparing it with the Carvin, but there is a kind of discoloration just near the joint of the neck with the main body and near the strap button. It is not so big but it is annoying for a new guitar. Also at the Floyd cavity you see some slight discoloroation of the onyx color at the edge of the routing. The pearl binding is not the best I have seen since, especially, on the body there are a lot of small pieces and not a big one forming the lines. A major thing for me also was that the fact that the first everytime I played my fingers would be black from the fretboard, which made me suspicious of the quality or the wood species of the fretboard. The gloss finish is kind of annoying. It is too gloss for my tastes finally. The strap buttons are in decent positions, making it only slightly neck heavy. I must say that the guitar looks a lot better in photos, but in close inspection I would rate it so and so. It is still very impressive but I expected more. Maybe I was too optimistic for the price I paid but that is just my feeling. So... // 6

Reliability & Durability: I honestly don't know how durable it will be. The Feeling I get from this guitar is that the hardware and general construction would last in time, but not the finish. It is a light guitar (strange for a mahogany guitar), which is good for playing Live, but it doesn't feel like a real real guitar. I would not tour or play Live without a backup due to the fact that it has a Floyd Rose, but also for the reasons I mentioned before. // 6

Overall Impression: For the metal genre distorted and heavy sounds it performs very very well. You should be careful because some times the initial setup may dissapoint you. Also it would be wise to test the guitar first just to see if you like it. I have been playing for 11 years and as I mentioned I also own a Carvin DC-400T and Mesa triple rectifier. I also have a couple more guitars but these two are my main guitars. The thing I wish I had done is find it and tried it first, but maybe I would not have bought then (which finally would have been the wrong decision). If it was stolen or lost I would like to get it back, but probably would not buy it again. What I like in this guitar is that it is actually easy to play when you get used to it (if you play it with a strap). I have quite good access in the higher frets and the sound is clear and cuts through. It can give you a beefy sounds and quite good cleans. It has a lot of features that give a good money/value ratio. I tried the Dean Mustaine signature and was very dissapointed. It is better than that one and costs around 300$ less. But I don't know how it would fare against the Schecter atx blackjack V or the Demmelition King V or RR24 Jackson. I would have liked more detail on the finish and with less imperfections. My comments may seem a bit negative, but I prefer to give a more harsh and honest review than just feature the positive elements of a guitar and over evaluating it. // 8

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
overall: 9.4
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: unregistered, on october 05, 2005
1 of 2 people found this review helpful

Price paid: $ 347.6

Purchased from: 53rd Street Music

Features: I belive it was made in the 1999-2004 area in korea. 24 unmarked frets so it has a raw look 2 it. Maple kneck and body black paint with white lining. 1 tone and 1 volume knobs and a 3-way Switch, floyd rose temlo system. Standard BDSM pickups I love them they fit my style of playing just right. I got it alone no package it was on sale and I always wanted a V so I got it! The only thing that was wrong was that the damn floyd rose made it so I had 2 put my strings in backwards, oh and the headstock is a standard Hendrix style inverted headstock, so the tuning knobs are facing down. // 9

Sound: Amazing sound, I play mostly goth or thrash metal so it will fit whatever I play, I use no effects at the momment (can't afford them) when I'm just sitting around I use a Peavy backstage amp. I can make tonnes of sounds on this thanxs to the floyd I have a beast without a floyd and it really restricted my playing. The only thing is this guitar is impossible to mute on but thats what the beast is for. // 10

Action, Fit & Finish: Well like I said the action is low enough that muting is nearly impossible but that was un avoidable 'cause of the floyd and thats why they make guitars with bridges. Oh and the guitar contained no flaws. // 8

Reliability & Durability: I never thought any guitar could withstand this much punishment! I have smashed this thng on walls, on the floor, on tables freaking out the first time 'cause my beast would usually chip but when I looked at it it had no scratches or anything it's an invincible guitar. // 10

Overall Impression: Like I said before I play goth/thrash metal I have been playing for 3 years now. This guitar is everything I wished for the only thing missing is fret inlays but no worries there. If this were stolen/lost I would hunt the theif down and use my beasts headstock to blind him for life. My fav feature on this guitar is the fact that it's a V the wost thing is the headstock I got the crappy version of that. I wish it had the widdow headstock! // 10

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
overall: 9.8
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: TheUofNC, on january 12, 2009
1 of 2 people found this review helpful

Price paid: $ 579.99

Purchased from: Beyond Eleven

Features: B\.C\. Rich NJ Jr. V Deluxe; Korean-made. Twenty-five and a half inch scale length; 24 frets (jumbo). Hard maple neck through flat-top v-shaped mahogany body; ebony fretboard Full mother of pearl binding; onyx (black) finish. Original Floyd Rose; active EMG pickups (81/85 combo). Two volume control knobs (1 per pickup); Single tone control knob. Grover tuning keys (very nice, but you don't have to tune this thing once you lock the nut so you won't be admiring them very often). Does not come with case or gig bag (C'mon, what do you expect at this price? ). // 10

Sound: I play mostly metal and I use a DigiTech Metal Master pedal through the clean channel of any amp to achieve the sound I want. I just want to get that out there to give the reader an idea of what type of sound I'm going for (heavy as hell). The sound of this guitar is terrific. When it first arrived I only had a small Peavey practice amp (25watts), but there was a substantial improvement in sound from my Ibanez RG2EX1. However, I recently purchased an Ibanez TBX150R combo amp (150watts) and upon it's arrival I finally was able to appreciate what this guitar is capable of. Obviously, the EMG 81/85 pickup combo sounds terrific. But what stood out to me was the sustain and resonance provided by the neck-through design. It's often said that tremolo systems reduce sustain due to routing of body and the fact that the tremolo itself is only held in place by mounting studs and a spring system. I've heard both sides of that argument and this review is obviously not the place for it, but I bring this up just to illustrate how impressed I was (rightfully or not) by the sustain/resonance provided by this guitar in spite of the presence of a floating tremolo. As said, I attribute this to the neck-through construction (but I'm no expert). The natural sound of this guitar is warm, as opposed to bright; and also very full. Having said that, you can achieve a good deal of tones depending on your equipment. The Original Floyd Rose is also terrific. A bitch to set-up, but sturdy as a rock and holds tuning very well. I think I've gone on enough here. This guitar sounds phenomenal. You surely wouldn't want to take it to a Hee-Haw for some good ole country pickin' 'n' grinnin'. But if you want to remove the first two layers of skin from somebody's face, this guitar would do the trick. // 10

Action, Fit & Finish: The guitar arrived and had been set-up flawlessly. Beyond Eleven were terrific with their customer service when placing the order. I asked for strings that were substantially heavier than the stock ones and they changed them and re-setup the guitar perfectly without charging me a dime for it. The action is terrific. The finish is jet-black and the pearl binding really accentuates an already terrific look. The best part, in regard to cosmetics, is the ebony fretboard with pearl binding and single pearl inlay at the 12th fret. Honestly the best looking fretboard I've ever seen. The Ebony is absolutely amazing. I have no desire to ever buy a guitar with a rosewood fretboard again. Just for the record, I've since changed the tuning of the guitar in an attempt to learn how to set up the Floyd Rose. This took 1.5 hours; being my first time and all. So bare that in mind if you think about adjusting the original setup. Basically, don't forget to specify which tuning you want it setup in. I learned the hard way. // 10

Reliability & Durability: I've only had this guitar for close to a month, so durability hasn't been an issue at this point. However, the guitar seems very well made. I've nicked one of V fins so make sure you're very careful with this guitar. I'm not in a band so I've never done a gig. But I think you'd be an idiot to gig seriously without a back-up, regardless of what your guitar is. This thing has a very high-quality feel to it; built like a rock. I'm going to go with a 9 here because I'm concerned that the finish may not be able to withstand much. I'm not even sure how I nicked mine to begin with; I never noticed hitting anything with it before I saw the nick on the finish. Having said that, it's a guitar, not a tank. So I can't really deduct anything more than a point here (if any at all). Also, the strap buttons are solid and the guitar rests well while standing. Playing while sitting down is also no problem if you know how to rest the V on your right leg. Bottom Line: Great initial quality; only time will tell the rest. // 9

Overall Impression: As mentioned above, I play mostly metal. This guitar is perfect for that and then some. I've been playing for just over two years and spent over a year looking at guitars of different styles. Although I had heard BC Rich guitars from late 90s and early 2000s were shit, I settled with this guitar because I had heard great things about it and the price was unbelievable give the features. I mean, just look at the price of the features if individually purchased: EMG 81/85 combo - $210 Original Floyd Rose - $160 Grover Tuners - $40-50? That comes to just over $400. When combined with the maple neck-through mahogany body, full pearl binding, and ebony fretboard you get a guitar that you would expect to be sold for at least a grand. I got mine for $579.99 at Beyond Eleven, but they've gone up to 679.99 since then (although still cheaper than anywhere else that I've seen). This guitar is a steal at the price. B\.C\. Rich really seems to be making a serious attempt to regain it's reputation and have done incredibly well with this guitar. I was leaning toward a Jackson DKMG Dinky, but I couldn't be happier with the choice I made. Overall a better guitar. Note: I'd say the Jackson takes the playability comparison. This thing plays incredibly well and I love it. But I've not played a good Jackson that didn't practically play itself. So make of that what you will. I'd probably snag this guitar sooner rather than later if I were you. I assume the corporate cocks pulling the strings at either B\.C\. Rich or your "local authorized dealer" (hehe) will jack up the price on this guitar once it's reputation is solidified. I wouldn't foresee that taking too long, as I've yet to find a negative review for this guitar. // 10

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
overall: 9.6
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: Aleksi, on august 12, 2009
1 of 1 people found this review helpful

Price paid: £ 350

Features: Features - 24 extra jumbo frets - Mahogany body - Mahogany neck - Neck-thru construction - Flying V body style - Original Floyd Rose bridge with locking nut - 2 B\.C\. Rich B.D.S.M. humbuckers - 2 volume controls, 1 tone control and 1 3 way pickup selector. In features this guitar is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I switched out the stock pickup in the bridge for a Seymour Duncan Blackout, the stock pickup was good but I just wanted an active pickup. This guitar feels extremely nice to play, the neck is a little on the thick side but I can shred on it comfortably and it gives it a feeling of solidarity. The higher fret access is great, nothing gets in my way down there. The body shape is great, looks Killer and contrary to my original thoughts is very easy to play sat down (on a chair, it's awkward as hell to sit on the floor and play!). I'm completely in love with the bridge here, it can stand up to a hell of a lot of whammy bar abuse and it's never once gone out of tune. // 10

Sound: I play metal and this guitar certainly delivers. It also sounds good for classical stuff like Vivaldi, Mozart ect. The sound is very full and ballsy, sounds great. The bridge pickup is great for metal but a little too aggressive when on clean. For a clean tone I like to turn the tone way down and switch to the neck pickup instead. The guitar is very good noise wise, nothing comes through the amp that I don't want. Occasionally when playing unplugged I hear the nut that holds the whammy bar in place (actually on the bar that you tighten/loosen to control how easy it is to spin the bar in a circle) but that's easy to rectify and the sound doesn't transmit to the amp. The whammy bar can do pretty much anything a whammy bar can be expected to do, a lot of Killer sounds there. // 10

Action, Fit & Finish: The guitar was almost perfect from the moment I opened the box. Only problem was with the Floyd Rose set up, it was catching slightly so that after a dive the pitch of your strings was lowered and after lifting it the pitch was raised. A very quick tweaking of the knife edges solved that though, and I mean literally about 5 seconds. I've had no problems with the bridge since, it works exactly as it's meant to and holds it's tuning great. There's a little paint on the fretboard in a woodgrain kind of pattern. That's worn in a couple of places. Finally the knobs on the tone and volume controls have come a bit loose but I've been playing this guitar for nearly 2 years now. Other than those minor things: it's survived well. // 8

Reliability & Durability: This guitar would definately stand up to Live playing, it's very robust. The hardware's of good quality and it's lasted me almost 2 years so far, only thing that's worn a little is the tone and volume knobs as I mentioned before.It's only fallen off the strap once and that was because the leather on the strap had stretched and become really loose. Getting hit in the neck with the Widow headstock once was enough to persuade me I needed to buy a new strap and it's not fallen off since. So in short, the strap buttons are good! The finish has lasted well, other than the weird paint on the fretboard so I'm well satisfied. I'd definately use this guitar in a gig without backup! // 10

Overall Impression: This guitar is great for metal, I couldn't ask for more in this respect. I've played for just over 3 years and almost 2 years I've been playing this guitar. It still feels great to me and I'm still completely in love with it. If it were stolen I'd be livid, people would die! I love most things about this guitar, on occassion I find the Widow headstock looks a bit childish but overall... It's my beastly guitar and I wouldn't have it any other way. This guitar has absolutely everything I was looking for and for a good price too. // 10

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
overall: 9
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: LoW, on january 22, 2007
0 of 0 people found this review helpful

Price paid: $ 737.1

Purchased from: Thomann

Features: This was made 2006. It's color is kinda see-thru-black, but in 2007 it has now only black color. It has 24 jumbo frets. It's neck thru model, two piece quilted maple top, Diamond inlay on ebony fingerboard, Floyd Rose tremolo and beveled top. Passive electronics, 2 volume control, 1 Tone control and 3-way toggle. Diecast tuners. I got 3 meters long cable and some various tools with it. // 9

Sound: It has B.C. Rich BDSM pickups. They suprised me, cos they have pretty bright, solid and full sound. They are almost as good as Seymour Duncans. Or not. I have always despised EMG pickups cause they have pretty lame sound. Kinda. That's the reason why I use Duncans and BDSMs. They are not noisy. That's a damn good thing. I use Zoom G2 as my multi-effect. It's freakin good actually when I play solos and those drunk sounds. // 9

Action, Fit & Finish: First of all, the Floyd Rose were broken. I waited first for 2 goddamn weeks to get it, and then I waited another 2 weeks to get it back. Everything were in very good shape. Except that neck pickups volume control fell off on the second day I got it. But it was just because the screw were loose. // 8

Reliability & Durability: I have played Live with my band about 5 times, and I used this everytime. It's just awesome. This guy from a underground record label came to me after the show that I had a unique sound and the guitar were cool too. Hardware seems to last very long. Strap buttons are pretty big and tight but when you get the strap there, it won't come out for about 2 weeks. I can depend on it, cos it has last for long and it's still in good shape. // 10

Overall Impression: I play with my band pretty much kinda Trash, Death Metal music. We have played some Slayer, Cannibal Corpse and Opeth covers Live. I have played this for about a year. I compared it to Warlocks and Explorers, and if it were stolen, I would buy Beast or Warlock. I wish it could have Gotoh tuners, cos they are pretty much the best, that I have owned. // 9

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
overall: 9.6
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: razorblade666, on october 25, 2007
0 of 0 people found this review helpful

Price paid: $ 300

Purchased from: Local Music Store

Features: This guitar was crafted in Indonesia. Despite that I still love the overall quality of it. It has 24 frets and the scale of the neck is about 25 1/2". The body is made of nato (eastern mahogany) and the neck is ebony. The body style of course is a V. The finish on my guitar is a simple metallic blue. It has a Tune-O-Matic bridge. The pickups on it are 2 black B.C. Rich B.D.S.M. humbuckers. It has 1 volume, 1 3-way toggle and 1 tone knob. The tuners are non-locking which has it's ups and downs. Where I bought it from the guy gave me the case with the purchase of the guitar at no extra cost. // 10

Sound: The sound of this guitar when I first plugged it in was amazing. I've never heard anything like it. I used to play with a Strat and single coils sound way different the the 2 humbucker configuration. I just use my amp and the effects on it. I go for the powerful crunchy metal type of sound and this guitar fits it perfectly. It's easy to hit the high notes and execute perfect pinch and artifical harmonics. // 10

Action, Fit & Finish: The factory set-up was decent. Wasn't the best but I fiddled around with it and I have it how I like it now. The action of the guitar is phenominal. I love the way it feels as I play. The only flaws were that it had a couple dings and scraps but it was used so. I would have like it better in flat black but the blue is kinda nice. It's a change though. // 9

Reliability & Durability: This guitar hasn't been put to the test yet. We will find out soon enough though. The strap buttons could have been placed in a more accesible place but were they are now is fine with me. It just took a little getting used to. The paint job is nice and think, not to think though. // 10

Overall Impression: This guitar is a great guitar for hard rock or metal. I've had the guitar for about a year and it's all I have been using. I haven't touched my Strat in forever. If it was stolen I would definetly replace it. The only thing I hate is the the input jack location. It could have been better placed on the guitar. I've gone through quite a few guitar cables because of it. // 9

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
overall: 8
NJ Jr-V Reviewed by: Banana Wedgie, on november 17, 2009
0 of 0 people found this review helpful

Price paid: £ 400

Purchased from: Ebay

Features: Ok, this is a BC Rich Jr. V I got on Ebay (originaly at 600). Iif you want the deatiled features you can buy it in (mine is limited edition/custom finish) either look at another one of the reviews or the BC Rich website. Its basically a v with a rosewood fingerboard, 24 frets, passive bdsm H-H pickups, and a Floyd Rose. The finish I have it in is see through dark green, sounds bad but looks great. // 8

Sound: I play METAL! And this guitar does METAL. I play through a Roland Cube 30, and it sounds decent on the clean channel but outstanding on the distortion. The pickups are perfect for my kind of distortion, which is easy to find on tube amps but eventually I got decent with my old guitar. Now it is really stunning. I am rather pleased! // 9

Action, Fit & Finish: Well, the colour can't be described in a bad way, its awesome! I did notice it is very fragile though... Everything was set up well, but I may change it... No flaws, factory did a good job, could of done better strings, or its just old strings, I'm not sure. // 8

Reliability & Durability: Colour is fragile. Guitar is fragile... The strap buttons are good! On my first guitar, they were useless, on my 2nd they were amazing, and on this, I can trust that my strap will stay still but its kinda hard to put on. I've never gigged before, be a few years before I probably will... but the bridge would mean I got depend on it pretty well. // 7

Overall Impression: Really good guitar for the price, although 600 I might turn my back on it, that seems a bit much, but now I'd be happy to pay it again. If this guitar broke (beyond repair) I would beat up whoever broke it, and then cry for an hour. Then I'd buy another BC Rich NJ guitar, but in some change I might try a warlock... I dunno. Great guitar, bottom line. // 8

Was this review helpful to you? Yes / No
Post your comment
Only "https" links are allowed for pictures,
otherwise they won't appear